Genocide in South Africa

gerryandliza · 24-08-2011 02:11PM #1

A few days ago Genocide watch, which is an internationally recognised organisation moved south africa from stay 5 to stage 6 on the genocide scale. :eek: www.genocidewatch.org . How sad, beautiful country that has gone the same road as zimbabwe:(

Jelle1880 · 25-08-2011 12:55AM

I've heard that from someone who used to live there.
The shocking part is that this is not mentioned in the press here, despite the fact that there is definitely an issue with one part of the population attacking another one, based on racist ideas.

Compare to the outcry when the Boers controlled the country.

Richard Hillman · 25-08-2011 02:09AM

No mainstream politicians or media outlets will take public notice of it in fear of being called a racist. It wont be until its too late until they finally publically condemn whats going on in South Africa :rolleyes:

tallus · 25-08-2011 08:30AM

I spoke to a south african friend about the ongoing situation there and he claimed that the general consensus from the people he is still in contact with in South Africa was that it was all going to kick off when Nelson Mandella dies. Pretty sad to hear.

Tea drinker · 25-08-2011 08:37AM

Some awful stories for past few years about the old white people on farms getting robbed. Of course they are often tortured horribly as well, not simple robberies.

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 08:37AM

tallus wrote: »

I spoke to a south african friend about the ongoing situation there and he claimed that the general consensus from the people he is still in contact with in South Africa was that it was all going to kick off when Nelson Mandella dies. Pretty sad to hear.

The problem has already kicked off in SA. Google farm attacks in south africa and see for yourself. It is really bad there! Malema who is part of the ruling party the ANC youth league is callin for nationalisation of mines bank land etc! He sings about killing whites and nothing much is really done to stop him! :eek: The average man on the street sleeps with one eye open in SA, what a pity that sa has gone downhill so fast.

Nodin · 25-08-2011 08:38AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I've heard that from someone who used to live there.
The shocking part is that this is not mentioned in the press here, despite the fact that there is definitely an issue with one part of the population attacking another one, based on racist ideas.

Compare to the outcry when the Boers controlled the country.

Thats far from proven. Theres a monumental murder and crime rate in the country generally.

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 08:39AM

Tea drinker wrote: »

Some awful stories for past few years about the old white people on farms getting robbed. Of course they are often tortured horribly as well, not simple robberies.

Alot of times with these farm attacks nothing is even stolen, it seems to be all about torturing and humiliating before being murdered in the most horrendous ways.

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 08:40AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No mainstream politicians or media outlets will take public notice of it in fear of being called a racist. It wont be until its too late until they finally publically condemn whats going on in South Africa :rolleyes:

Its basically what happened with so many of the other genocides - DENIAL

Nodin · 25-08-2011 08:41AM

gerryandliza wrote: »

Alot of times with these farm attacks nothing is even stolen, it seems to be all about torturing and humiliating before being murdered in the most horrendous ways.

And you've some report from an NGO or the like to back that up...?

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 08:55AM

Nodin wrote: »

And you've some report from an NGO or the like to back that up...?

http://youtu.be/3S71PbichSw
http://youtu.be/tgSfhsFtIM0

http://www.genocidewatch.org/

http://youtu.be/blDoIVf6Y1M

www.africancrisis.co.za

AlekSmart · 25-08-2011 09:08AM

gerryandliza wrote: »

The problem has already kicked off in SA. Google farm attacks in south africa and see for yourself. It is really bad there! Malema who is part of the ruling party the ANC youth league is callin for nationalisation of mines bank land etc! He sings about killing whites and nothing much is really done to stop him! :eek: The average man on the street sleeps with one eye open in SA, what a pity that sa has gone downhill so fast.

Gerryandliza and others,it's interesting to see/hear a slightly different take on the SA situation.

For so long now any discussion of South Africa's descent into chaos has to be undertaken with a clearly stated proviso of admitting the White Man's burden of injustice and repression etc.

Indeed,it remains so,something which most of the politically astute black activist leadership are highly proficient at portraying.

It's open for debate as to whether there is actually much difference at all between the Oppresive white South African regimes and the Far Sighted Open Minded Black governments....from what I can see it's a matter of semantics.

However,you are most likely already aware that the opinions you appear to be developing will be largely pooh-poo'd in favour of a more quixotic notion that what we are seeing is only a rebalancing after centuries of repression,slavery and cruelty etc so therefore it's all somehow or other OK.

Tea_Bag · 25-08-2011 09:27AM

You really don't want to be in the country when Mandela dies.

Malema is going to be the leader when Apartheid gets completely flipped on it's head. He's seriously dangerous and the ANC will back him up when the time comes. other songs he likes to sing at his speeches translate to "1 farmer, 1 bullet "

anymore · 25-08-2011 09:30AM

And jsut where is Africs's most famous ' Human Rughts' campaigner Archbishop Tutu ? Winner of Tutu received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984, the Albert Schweitzer Prize for Humanitarianism in 1986, the Pacem in Terris Award in 1987, the Sydney Peace Prize (1999) the Gandhi Peace Prize in 2005,[1] and the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2009.

This can hardly be happening in his own backyard, can it ? When he was on his retirement tour last year, should he not have been warning the world of this catastrophic state of affairs ?

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 11:21AM

anymore wrote: »

And jsut where is Africs's most famous ' Human Rughts' campaigner Archbishop Tutu ? Winner of Tutu received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1984, the Albert Schweitzer Prize for Humanitarianism in 1986, the Pacem in Terris Award in 1987, the Sydney Peace Prize (1999) the Gandhi Peace Prize in 2005,[1] and the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2009.

This can hardly be happening in his own backyard, can it ? When he was on his retirement tour last year, should he not have been warning the world of this catastrophic state of affairs ?

I always had a lot of respect for Tutu until i read this article below

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/Tutus-white-tax-is-racist-20110813

After nearly 20 years of so called democracy, i think it is time to stop blaming apartheid for the problems that sa faces now

jmayo · 25-08-2011 11:23AM

tallus wrote: »

I spoke to a south african friend about the ongoing situation there and he claimed that the general consensus from the people he is still in contact with in South Africa was that it was all going to kick off when Nelson Mandella dies. Pretty sad to hear.

I have been hearing this for the last 10 plus years from some white South Africans.
Funny thing is I have also been hearing it from some non white South Africans of late.
malema is a very dangerous guy and is another would be mugabe albeit a pretty uneducated moronic one as can be seen from his school record and his moronic outbursts like slagging off the chinese.

Once the steading influence of Mandela goes the country will discend into chaos with the likes of malema at the forefront.
If the ANC leadership were serious about building an all inclusive country they would kick malema out rather than giving him slaps on the wrist and having that eejit zuma claim that he could be a future leader.

The scary thing is that he has a following among disaffected youths who don;t see any benefits even though the country is under black rule.
Sooner or later a scapegoat will have to be found to appease these and the whites are going to be it.
At the same time the likes of malema will grow rich on the proceeds.

Nodin wrote: »

And you've some report from an NGO or the like to back that up...?

Do you doubt the rise of racial tensions and attacks on whites in South africa and the dangerous rise of people like malema who now openly expresses desire to take over white property and makes no bones about singing such songs as "kill the boer" ?

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 11:23AM

Tea_Bag wrote: »

You really don't want to be in the country when Mandela dies.

Malema is going to be the leader when Apartheid gets completely flipped on it's head. He's seriously dangerous and the ANC will back him up when the time comes. other songs he likes to sing at his speeches translate to "1 farmer, 1 bullet "

Malema is a very dangerous puppet of the ANC. Unfortunatley he has many followers who support his call of nationalisation of mines, bank, land etc. His kill the boer kill the farmer song has been blamed for many murders in SA and even though a court ruled that the song could not be sung anymore he still does this and gets away with it!

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 11:25AM

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/US-compared-ANC-to-Nats-WikiLeaks-20110825

FTA69 · 25-08-2011 11:54AM

I remember meeting an ANC Youth League representative at a youth congress once when I was around 16. He was emphatically supportive of Mugabe and countered any criticism of his regime with a charge of "British propaganda". Asked why tens of thousands of Zimbabweans are pouring then into South Africa to escape the madness he responded that these were former lackeys of the establishment etc etc etc. I didn't bother pressing the issue.

To me it seems that one elite has simply replaced another, and as usual the ordinary people get screwed at every turn. Like in Ireland, it seems the former revolutionaries have become the epitome of gombeenism and like in Ireland they seem to be using nationalist rhetoric to distract from it.

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 12:01PM

FTA69 wrote: »

I remember meeting an ANC Youth League representative at a youth congress once when I was around 16. He was emphatically supportive of Mugabe and countered any criticism of his regime with a charge of "British propaganda". Asked why tens of thousands of Zimbabweans are pouring then into South Africa to escape the madness he responded that these were former lackeys of the establishment etc etc etc. I didn't bother pressing the issue.

To me it seems that one elite has simply replaced another, and as usual the ordinary people get screwed at every turn. Like in Ireland, it seems the former revolutionaries have become the epitome of gombeenism and like in Ireland they seem to be using nationalist rhetoric to distract from it.

The ANC openly support mugabe and are now trying to do the same style land grabs in south africa! Many zimbabweans are now being murdered off in south africa in xenophobic attacks and others are running back to Zimbabwe or being deported back. It really is a case of from the frying pan into the fire! Ordinary citizens of SA, black and white, have had enough. The politicians are all corrupt and are turning a blind eye on what is going on in their country. It really is a case of the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer:(

Nodin · 25-08-2011 01:16PM

gerryandliza wrote:

http://youtu.be/3S71PbichSw
.............

There was nothing there that backed up

Alot of times with these farm attacks nothing is even stolen, it seems to be all about torturing and humiliating before being murdered in the most horrendous ways.

In fact that News programme "Farm Murders in South Africa" (part II) has a number of officials and independent experts stating that the motivation is criminal and the type of violence not unique to attacks on Farmers. The sole dissenter seems to be Mr Stanton of Genocide Watch.

While there are legitamate concerns as regards the likes of Malema, hysterical claims don't help your case at all, at all.

jmayo wrote: »

Do you doubt the rise of racial tensions and attacks on whites in South africa and the dangerous rise of people like malema who now openly expresses desire to take over white property and makes no bones about singing such songs as "kill the boer" ?

Why are you asking?

g5fd6ow0hseima · 25-08-2011 01:22PM

Nodin wrote: »

There was nothing there that backed up

In fact that News programme "Farm Murders in South Africa" (part II) has a number of officials and independent experts stating that the motivation is criminal and the type of violence not unique to attacks on Farmers. The sole dissenter seems to be Mr Stanton of Genocide Watch.

While there are legitamate concerns as regards the likes of Malema, hysterical claims don't help your case at all, at all.

Why are you asking?

The fact that over 3,200 white farmers have been killed since 1994 is something you cant ignore. That's more than the figure killed during the thirty years of the troubles here. But I guess it's all motivated by poverty eh?

Nodin · 25-08-2011 01:26PM

Mohammed Future Suburbia wrote: »

The fact that over 3,200 white farmers have been killed since 1994 is something you cant ignore. That's more than the figure killed during the thirty years of the troubles here. But I guess it's all motivated by poverty eh?

The fact that those 3,200 form part of a total of 300,000 since that same year shouldn't be left out either.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/FF-Murder-rate-killed-SA-dream-20100427

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 01:28PM

Mohammed Future Suburbia wrote: »

The fact that over 3,200 white farmers have been killed since 1994 is something you cant ignore. That's more than the figure killed during the thirty years of the troubles here. But I guess it's all motivated by poverty eh?

I agree, poverty, apartheid etc cannot be used as an excuse for this. The same happened in Rwanda those years, people didnt want to hear or know about the genocide and only woke up after it was too late.

Nodin · 25-08-2011 01:32PM

gerryandliza wrote: »

I agree, poverty, apartheid etc cannot be used as an excuse for this. ............

Nobody was using it as an excuse, it was pointed out as that crime, related to poverty presumably, was the primary motivation.

gerryandliza · 25-08-2011 01:32PM

Another interesting site i found

http://www.farmitracker.com/

easychair · 25-08-2011 01:34PM

gerryandliza wrote: »

A few days ago Genocide watch, which is an internationally recognised organisation moved south africa from stay 5 to stage 6 on the genocide scale. :eek: www.genocidewatch.org . How sad, beautiful country that has gone the same road as zimbabwe:(

Which road is that? I've been to both SA and ZIM in the last year, and don't regognise any similarities. Can you explain what you mean that SA has gone down the same road as zim?

g5fd6ow0hseima · 25-08-2011 01:41PM

Nodin wrote: »

The fact that those 3,200 form part of a total of 300,000 since that same year shouldn't be left out either.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Politics/FF-Murder-rate-killed-SA-dream-20100427

Yes but the murder rates and overall crime rates in South Africa's cities are extremely high in comparison to rural areas - as is the case in most countries. However, the murdered farmers were almost entirely located in rural areas, well away from the big cities which have been plagued with drug violence and what not.

Brian? · 25-08-2011 01:44PM

What's happening now is completely different to what happened under the Apartheid regime in SA.

What's happening now is generaly lawlessness leading to a very high crime rate.

Under Apartheid a white minority imposed an unfair system upon a black minority, striping them of their basic human rights. To compare what's happening no to Zimbabwe is also misleading, there it was a state reappropriation of land from white farmers lead by a Tyrant. For all it's imperfections the South Africa of today is a democratic state.

I have worked with many white South Africans, what they say about the current state of SA needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. If you believe some of them it's anarachy where a white man is more than likely going to be linched in the street. I have also worked with some black South Africans, can you guess what they say about the SA of today versus the Apartheid days?

g5fd6ow0hseima · 25-08-2011 01:44PM

easychair wrote: »

Which road is that? I've been to both SA and ZIM in the last year, and don't regognise any similarities. Can you explain what you mean that SA has gone down the same road as zim?

Im guessing he means paranoid leadership, autocratic tendencies, africanism, support of authoritarian dictators, racism, blaming its entire woes on western imperialism, plummeting life expectancies, incomprenehsible crime levels, corruption and croneyism on an endemic level....

FTA69 · 25-08-2011 01:44PM

While we're on the subject of racial tension in South Africa, there has been one example of this which has gone largely unreported in my opinion and that is the case of immigrants from other African countries. In some of South Africa's many shanty towns immigrants from Zimbabwe and Mozambique etc have often come under sustained attack with scores of them being murdered or driven from their homes by racist mobs. In a context where South Africa is stricken with poverty, AIDS, crime and unemployment it's sad to see other misfortunate people being made a scapegoat for venting anger.

Genocide in South Africa

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