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should those wanting children be subject to means tests ?

  • 24-08-2011 04:14PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭


    i am just wondering how come there is no controls in place for having children ?

    there are no psych exams to see if you are fit to raise a child , no means test to see can you afford the child , no examination of where you live to make sure it is child safe , nothing that i am aware of .
    i am just wondering why this is ... when to adapt a child you have to meet a lot of criteria - you are vetted / means tested the lot all out of concern for the child ?



    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/adoption_and_fostering/adopting_a_child.html

    the only reason i can come up with is maternal instinct 0 however that is not always the case - take the woman on trial for partying in america who is suspected of killing her child.

    personally i am of the opinion there should be controls on who can have children as not everyone is a fit parent .i blame their parents for the amount of scumbags we have on our streets now .

    this is just something that i have never been able to get my head around.

    thanks


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    And just how do you propose we stop them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Unless we have sterilisation at birth that can be reversed when some one has passed "the child bearing test" unfortunately it can't be enforced.

    It could also be used in an unscrupulous manner by evil politicians etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭loveisdivine


    I totally agree. If you have to meet certain criteria to adop then it should be the same to have your own child.

    How do China enforce their one child only law? Must be a logical way to do it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    There are lots of people out there that were complete and utter messes before they had kids and ended up sorting themselves out completely once they had a kid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    surely the state had a part to play in this scumbag risings,yes there is feckless parents out there,then the state takes cares of the kids,but often there's numerous reports of them falling into drug addiction/in and out of prison because there is no facility here to look after some.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    I totally agree. If you have to meet certain criteria to adop then it should be the same to have your own child.

    How do China enforce their one child only law? Must be a logical way to do it.

    High fines and fear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    We could always burn the children of unfit parents as an alternative to fossil fuels.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    wild_cat wrote: »
    Unless we have sterilisation at birth that can be reversed when some one has passed "the child bearing test" .

    best idea Ive seen in years.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    I think this is a terrible idea


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    Would means testing/reducing child benefit be an incentive to have less children?.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    A lot of of kids in China are put up for adoption, killed or abandoned because of the one child rule. If people are gonna have kids, they're just gonna have kids. I do think there should be some sort of means test, but I'm too dim to figure out a viable way for it to work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    Yeah and while we're at it, lets also only allow certain types of children too, I particularly like blond blue eyed ones.

    Seig Heil! :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    Oh, Jesus, someone's invoked Godwin's Law this early?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    best idea Ive seen in years.....

    I'm not purposing it as an idea. That's the only way it could work. No method of sterilisation is 100% guaranteed reversible.

    As much as I dislike people having kids for environmental reasons, you can't limit personal freedoms. One of the adopted kids I know, grew into a **** up even though her parents were seen as having passed the test.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Seriously???!

    There are so, so many unfit parents out there, but there is literally no viable way to control it, so I don't see the point in the discussion tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    Better yet we could all have sex in a manner similiar to Demolition Man and there would be no risk of unplanned pregnancies. you could then take the parent test at the lab where you go for artificial insemination.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭excaliburhc


    isnt there a clamp that can be removed ? not sure , but surely there are options - clamp both sexes and only a doctor can remove once provided with proof of license .

    i just dont understand how "children are our future" but no care is taken to make sure they have the means and situation to grow into a healthy member of society.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 296 ✭✭looky loo


    TheZohan wrote: »
    There are lots of people out there that were complete and utter messes before they had kids and ended up sorting themselves out completely once they had a kid.

    In some cases maybe, but in others they have kids and make complete messes out their kids lives.

    I'd also love to know how the OP would be able to stop people having sex when out of their minds with drink and ask them to take a means test?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    Children are the future so they can attempt to fix all the fucking messes the past generations have made and take care of them in wee granny flats beside their houses.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭IrishEyes19


    thats dodgy ground there if you ask me. Not only is it going against human rights, Id be wary of who exactly made the final decisions whether I could have a child or not, and who could set the test in the first place.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭excaliburhc


    yep nice to have the nazi comment in there early.

    i am just wondering as i know a girl who has had 4 children but she is more concerned with having enough money to go out on a saturday night then feeding / clothing her children.

    i am just wondering if there is a better way .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭DjFlin


    I think you might be forgetting people who get pregnant by accident. What happens in that situation? I think we'd have to tackle the issues of Abortion before we can really talk about this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭wild_cat


    Children are the future so they can attempt to fix all the fucking messes the past generations have made and take care of them in wee granny flats beside their houses.

    Or they can just increase the destruction that we continue to do to the earth with out batting an eye lid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    wild_cat wrote: »
    Or they can just increase the destruction that we continue to do to the earth with out batting an eye lid.

    That is more likely, but I doubt it's what people mean when they say "Children are our future."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,927 ✭✭✭COYW


    Seriously???!

    There are so, so many unfit parents out there, but there is literally no viable way to control it, so I don't see the point in the discussion tbh.

    The only realistic way to tackle it is by controlling how the welfare they receive is spent. We all know that there are plenty out there who have children to get the welfare and the child never sees a cent of the money.

    I propose that we :

    - reduce the monetary benefits for having 3+ children.

    - give food stamps to be used in supermarkets instead of cash in hand.

    - give books, school uniforms, paid transport to school (if applicable), a proper healthy meal in school instead of giving the parents the cash to supposedly spend on the above.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 149 ✭✭Artur Foden


    I dont see the need to be honest. What should be discussed is a fair and moral system to deal with children who come from abusive backgrounds, or are disabled in some way.

    I for one would hate to live in a country in which a system decided who had the right to have children


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    People can suddenly suffer a dramatic reduction of means at any time during their life so how could you predict that?

    Plus the people constantly harping on about parents and kids will soon notice if other peoples' children are not around in 30 years time to serve you pints, drive your train and wipe your arse when you're dribbling your last in a home.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Subjecting them to mean tests would be better. Meanybagses shouldn't be allowed have babbies.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Any test would also be assuming that everyones psychology and fiscal situation is static - which is a nonsense. How do you propose to deal with people who passed the test to have kids and then become and alcoholic/drug-addict/unemployed/insert whatever criterion they would have failed on originally here...? :confused:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭Bipolar Joe


    I guess the problem is like that movie, Gattaca. It's sort of eugenics. I do now for damn sure my Mom should never have had kids.


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