should those wanting children be subject to means tests ?

excaliburhc · 24-08-2011 04:14PM #1

i am just wondering how come there is no controls in place for having children ?

there are no psych exams to see if you are fit to raise a child , no means test to see can you afford the child , no examination of where you live to make sure it is child safe , nothing that i am aware of .
i am just wondering why this is ... when to adapt a child you have to meet a lot of criteria - you are vetted / means tested the lot all out of concern for the child ?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/adoption_and_fostering/adopting_a_child.html

the only reason i can come up with is maternal instinct 0 however that is not always the case - take the woman on trial for partying in america who is suspected of killing her child.

personally i am of the opinion there should be controls on who can have children as not everyone is a fit parent .i blame their parents for the amount of scumbags we have on our streets now .

this is just something that i have never been able to get my head around.

thanks

mackg · 24-08-2011 04:15PM

And just how do you propose we stop them?

wild_cat · 24-08-2011 04:17PM

Unless we have sterilisation at birth that can be reversed when some one has passed "the child bearing test" unfortunately it can't be enforced.

It could also be used in an unscrupulous manner by evil politicians etc.

loveisdivine · 24-08-2011 04:17PM

I totally agree. If you have to meet certain criteria to adop then it should be the same to have your own child.

How do China enforce their one child only law? Must be a logical way to do it.

TheZohanS · 24-08-2011 04:18PM

There are lots of people out there that were complete and utter messes before they had kids and ended up sorting themselves out completely once they had a kid.

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 24-08-2011 04:18PM

surely the state had a part to play in this scumbag risings,yes there is feckless parents out there,then the state takes cares of the kids,but often there's numerous reports of them falling into drug addiction/in and out of prison because there is no facility here to look after some.

wild_cat · 24-08-2011 04:19PM

loveisdivine wrote: »

I totally agree. If you have to meet certain criteria to adop then it should be the same to have your own child.

How do China enforce their one child only law? Must be a logical way to do it.

High fines and fear.

mackg · 24-08-2011 04:20PM

We could always burn the children of unfit parents as an alternative to fossil fuels.

meditraitor · 24-08-2011 04:20PM

wild_cat wrote: »

Unless we have sterilisation at birth that can be reversed when some one has passed "the child bearing test" .

best idea Ive seen in years.....

tfitzgerald · 24-08-2011 04:20PM

I think this is a terrible idea

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 24-08-2011 04:21PM

Would means testing/reducing child benefit be an incentive to have less children?.

Bipolar Joe · 24-08-2011 04:22PM

A lot of of kids in China are put up for adoption, killed or abandoned because of the one child rule. If people are gonna have kids, they're just gonna have kids. I do think there should be some sort of means test, but I'm too dim to figure out a viable way for it to work.

IvyTheTerrible · 24-08-2011 04:22PM

Yeah and while we're at it, lets also only allow certain types of children too, I particularly like blond blue eyed ones.

Seig Heil! :rolleyes:

Bipolar Joe · 24-08-2011 04:23PM

Oh, Jesus, someone's invoked Godwin's Law this early?

wild_cat · 24-08-2011 04:23PM

meditraitor wrote: »

best idea Ive seen in years.....

I'm not purposing it as an idea. That's the only way it could work. No method of sterilisation is 100% guaranteed reversible.

As much as I dislike people having kids for environmental reasons, you can't limit personal freedoms. One of the adopted kids I know, grew into a **** up even though her parents were seen as having passed the test.

flutterflye · 24-08-2011 04:23PM

Seriously???!

There are so, so many unfit parents out there, but there is literally no viable way to control it, so I don't see the point in the discussion tbh.

mackg · 24-08-2011 04:23PM

Better yet we could all have sex in a manner similiar to Demolition Man and there would be no risk of unplanned pregnancies. you could then take the parent test at the lab where you go for artificial insemination.

excaliburhc · 24-08-2011 04:24PM

isnt there a clamp that can be removed ? not sure , but surely there are options - clamp both sexes and only a doctor can remove once provided with proof of license .

i just dont understand how "children are our future" but no care is taken to make sure they have the means and situation to grow into a healthy member of society.

looky loo · 24-08-2011 04:25PM

TheZohan wrote: »

There are lots of people out there that were complete and utter messes before they had kids and ended up sorting themselves out completely once they had a kid.

In some cases maybe, but in others they have kids and make complete messes out their kids lives.

I'd also love to know how the OP would be able to stop people having sex when out of their minds with drink and ask them to take a means test?

Bipolar Joe · 24-08-2011 04:26PM

Children are the future so they can attempt to fix all the fucking messes the past generations have made and take care of them in wee granny flats beside their houses.

IrishEyes19 · 24-08-2011 04:27PM

thats dodgy ground there if you ask me. Not only is it going against human rights, Id be wary of who exactly made the final decisions whether I could have a child or not, and who could set the test in the first place.

excaliburhc · 24-08-2011 04:27PM

yep nice to have the nazi comment in there early.

i am just wondering as i know a girl who has had 4 children but she is more concerned with having enough money to go out on a saturday night then feeding / clothing her children.

i am just wondering if there is a better way .

DjFlin · 24-08-2011 04:28PM

I think you might be forgetting people who get pregnant by accident. What happens in that situation? I think we'd have to tackle the issues of Abortion before we can really talk about this.

wild_cat · 24-08-2011 04:28PM

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

Children are the future so they can attempt to fix all the fucking messes the past generations have made and take care of them in wee granny flats beside their houses.

Or they can just increase the destruction that we continue to do to the earth with out batting an eye lid.

Bipolar Joe · 24-08-2011 04:29PM

wild_cat wrote: »

Or they can just increase the destruction that we continue to do to the earth with out batting an eye lid.

That is more likely, but I doubt it's what people mean when they say "Children are our future."

COYW · 24-08-2011 04:34PM

flutterflye wrote: »

Seriously???!

There are so, so many unfit parents out there, but there is literally no viable way to control it, so I don't see the point in the discussion tbh.

The only realistic way to tackle it is by controlling how the welfare they receive is spent. We all know that there are plenty out there who have children to get the welfare and the child never sees a cent of the money.

I propose that we :

- reduce the monetary benefits for having 3+ children.

- give food stamps to be used in supermarkets instead of cash in hand.

- give books, school uniforms, paid transport to school (if applicable), a proper healthy meal in school instead of giving the parents the cash to supposedly spend on the above.

Artur Foden · 24-08-2011 04:35PM

I dont see the need to be honest. What should be discussed is a fair and moral system to deal with children who come from abusive backgrounds, or are disabled in some way.

I for one would hate to live in a country in which a system decided who had the right to have children

stovelid · 24-08-2011 04:37PM

People can suddenly suffer a dramatic reduction of means at any time during their life so how could you predict that?

Plus the people constantly harping on about parents and kids will soon notice if other peoples' children are not around in 30 years time to serve you pints, drive your train and wipe your arse when you're dribbling your last in a home.

pickarooney · 24-08-2011 04:38PM

Subjecting them to mean tests would be better. Meanybagses shouldn't be allowed have babbies.

Ickle Magoo · 24-08-2011 04:39PM

Any test would also be assuming that everyones psychology and fiscal situation is static - which is a nonsense. How do you propose to deal with people who passed the test to have kids and then become and alcoholic/drug-addict/unemployed/insert whatever criterion they would have failed on originally here...?

Bipolar Joe · 24-08-2011 04:41PM

I guess the problem is like that movie, Gattaca. It's sort of eugenics. I do now for damn sure my Mom should never have had kids.

should those wanting children be subject to means tests ?

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