Myers (again) on Uganda 'development aid'

Dionysus · 18-08-2011 09:46PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

lad actually breaks though the crust of leftie agenda and tells it as it is

What, pray tell, is this "leftie agenda"? Yes, I'm aware it has resonance in certain less-than-intelligent sections of society in the United States, but in modern Ireland or Europe what is it?

sollar · 18-08-2011 09:52PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'm unclear here - are you saying he didn't write those articles?

Do you agree with his other articles, such as his lament for the lack of 'caucasian faces' in london? That Africa contributes nothing to the World except AIDs?

Do you agree with his description of the children of single mothers as "bastards"?

If you look back at my post i said i tend to agree with alot of what he says. But that does not mean all of what he says.

Wibbs · 18-08-2011 09:57PM

sollar wrote: »

If you look back at my post i said i tend to agree with alot of what he says. But that does not mean all of what he says.

Oh oh you've confused him now.

mackg · 18-08-2011 10:04PM

Dionysus wrote: »

What, pray tell, is this "leftie agenda"? Yes, I'm aware it has resonance in certain less-than-intelligent sections of society in the United States, but in modern Ireland or Europe what is it?

For all her god and family talk I bet she's a dirty bi*ch in bed

SamHarris · 18-08-2011 10:06PM

Nodin wrote: »

I'm unclear here - are you saying he didn't write those articles?

Do you agree with his other articles, such as his lament for the lack of 'caucasian faces' in london? That Africa contributes nothing to the World except AIDs?

Do you agree with his description of the children of single mothers as "bastards"?

Bastards is the correct term is it not?

I think the guys point was just because he has opinions you disagree with, or uses terms you do not like does not mean he is wrong.

SamHarris · 18-08-2011 10:15PM

Dionysus wrote: »

What, pray tell, is this "leftie agenda"? Yes, I'm aware it has resonance in certain less-than-intelligent sections of society in the United States, but in modern Ireland or Europe what is it?

Leftie agenda is a flippant phrase but there certainly is alot of pet issues that the left/right holds in common and certain topics that people will be routinely attacked for if they bring it up, the massive corruption of African countries who get our aid and use it on weapons is one of them.

That Muslim terrorists are moticated by religion is another (its usualy economics or Wesetern Imperialism to the far left). After the riots the "agenda" would be blaming policy and greedy capitalist society for the behaviour was common in left wing publications.

It is common to for them to have the same people they hold in contempt, for example Sarah Palin or George Bush. I think "agenda" may be a bad word for it, but the far left and far right both often have common themes and criticisms running through publications.

mikemac · 18-08-2011 10:19PM

Nodin wrote: »

Do you agree with his description of the children of single mothers as "bastards"?

Pick up a law book, still used

As is illegitimate

Dionysus · 18-08-2011 10:20PM

Wibbs wrote: »

It's a waste of money. It's a waste of money we are borrowing to waste and it's money that will be wasted on people who it's not aimed at. Hey if what passes for the "left" these days thinking that "it's good we're sending money, it doesn't matter how or where it ends up, it's the thought that counts, because it's going to de black babies after all", then knock yourselves out.

In fairness, long before Myers jumped on that particular bandwagon many people involved in charity work in Africa - most noticeably John O'Shea - had been saying the same about funding corrupt regimes. It's not rocket science, and Myers is not being some amazing radical with "his" ideas. He's taking a position, ignoring everything which doesn't suit it and is essentially being a polemicist.

Moreover, and this is the rub, I wonder would Mr Myers be keen on, say, Shell pulling out of Nigeria until the régime which they support hugely there reforms itself - or is it OK for "the West" to take billions out of corrupt African regimes for as long as they can get away with it? Does the problem for Myers and his ilk only arise when it is "the West" putting money into African countries which are led by kleptocracies? I have yet to hear him ranting about Western firms ripping off underdeveloped countries.

Behind all the bullshit trotted out by Myers and his ilk, what's the betting that western governments continue to give funding to such states because other areas of the same western economies are benefiting from "investments" in the very same countries which naive Myers-reading, Independent-reading Westerners believe the West is merely helping?

Corkblowin · 18-08-2011 10:32PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Moreover, and this is the rub, I wonder would Mr Myers be keen on, say, Shell pulling out of Nigeria until the régime which they support hugely there reforms itself - or is it OK for "the West" to take billions out of corrupt African regimes for as long as they can get away with it? Does the problem for Myers and his ilk only arise when it is "the West" putting money into African countries which are led by kleptocracies? I have yet to hear him ranting about Western firms ripping off underdeveloped countries?

Isn't that a different debate. The issue here is taxpayers money going as aid to a country which chooses to spend it's own money on seemingly mismatched military hardware. What private companies do with their money & investments is their own business.

Dionysus · 18-08-2011 10:47PM

Corkblowin wrote: »

Isn't that a different debate. The issue here is taxpayers money going as aid to a country which chooses to spend it's own money on seemingly mismatched military hardware. What private companies do with their money & investments is their own business.

Would that it were true. In reality governments lobby on behalf of, subsidise and extract enormous sums of tax revenue from what their corporations do abroad, and even go to war if necessary to defend those "national" economic interests. It is very far from a "different debate". It is people like Myers who'd like to separate both and portray corporations as independent actors whose successes or failures have no influence on how national governments shape their policies in the countries in question.

Corkblowin · 18-08-2011 10:54PM

Dionysus wrote: »

Would that it were true. In reality governments lobby on behalf of, subsidise and extract enormous sums of tax revenue from what their corporations do abroad, and even go to war if necessary to defend those "national" economic interests. It is very far from a "different debate". It is people like Myers who'd like to separate both and portray corporations as independent actors whose successes or failures have no influence on how national governments shape their policies in the countries in question.

I don't think shell have much need for lobbying from the Irish government or that we're going to go to war to defend the interests of guinness. You're arguing on a tangent which has nothing to do with the question. Why should Ireland borrow money to give to a country that's doing non-essential spending? I don't believe we should.

Pace2008 · 18-08-2011 11:06PM

mikemac wrote: »

Pick up a law book, still used

Whether or not it's a legitimate term in law, it still carries serious negative connotations, hence it's frequent use as a pejorative. Myers is no fool and he was not being blunt or forthright, he was deliberately trying to offend a group for whom he feels distaste.

I understand he later issued an apology, whether as a result of his own conscience, a command from higher up, or in fear for his own safety (he claims he was issued death threats over the article), we will never know.

ascanbe · 18-08-2011 11:58PM

Myers, as usual, dangles the carrot in front of the donkeys and the donkeys set off after it, braying, as usual, about 'lefty, pc-loonies' etc as they go.
Of course there is a kernel of truth in what Myers writes, he's not a dummy; he knows he has to have a string on which to attach the carrot.
Of course, as usual, he knows he can choose to completely ignore the context of the situation, as the donkeys have no interest in this.
And one would have to wonder why, in the context of all that's happening at the moment, why this particular subject exercises him to such a degree.
But, of course, his agenda isn't really about aid to Uganda or Ireland's aid-budget in general; and some of the donkeys are well aware of this.

Yitzhak Rabin · 19-08-2011 12:00AM

ascanbe wrote: »

Myers, as usual, dangles the carrot in front of the donkeys and the donkeys set off after it, braying, as usual, about 'lefty, pc-loonies' etc as they go.
Of course there is a kernel of truth in what Myers writes, he's not a dummy; he knows he has to have a string on which to attach the carrot.
Of course, as usual, he knows he can choose to completely ignore the context of the situation, as the donkeys have no interest in this.
And one would have to wonder why, in the context of all that's happening at the moment, why this particular subject exercises him to such a degree.
But, of course, his agenda isn't really about aid to Uganda or Ireland's aid-budget in general; and some of the donkeys are well aware of this.

Any opinion on Ireland borrowing money to give it to Uganda while they buy naval fighter jets?

ascanbe · 19-08-2011 12:27AM

yekahS wrote: »

Any opinion on Ireland borrowing money to give it to Uganda while they buy naval fighter jets?

I think it's wrong.

starbelgrade · 19-08-2011 12:33AM

Dionysus wrote: »

When you grow up, you'll get it. Some of us have been around long enough to be familiar with his record.

Education also helps when it comes to assessing his pro-British/anti-Irish trolling. For example, this is, after all, a (British born and bred) person who in Irish newspapers glorifies the Irish-born people who died fighting for the British Empire and calls those Irish people who fought against that British Empire for the freedom of Ireland "terrorists" (that includes those in Easter 1916). If Myers had his way, we'd still be under British colonial occupation.

Really, do you want to associate yourself with such a person?

What did you eat this morning when you woke up - a big bowl of smugness?

obplayer · 19-08-2011 01:34AM

Dionysus wrote: »

hehe. Myers would be among the first to concede he is, in fact, pro-British when it comes to judging people who fight for Irish freedom versus people who fight for the British Empire. You can keep your head in the sand there all you like about the guy's views on Irish people who fought for Irish freedom, and lambast those of us who highlight it. It doesn't really change the reality that is Myers' hatred for the very concept of Irish separatism from the British Empire, and contempt for all Irish people who fought against British rule in this country.

No, Myers is not against Ireland gaining freedom from Britain, he simply believes it was in the process of happening anyway and would have without the bloodshed if the hard lines had allowed it to happen.

Pdfile · 19-08-2011 01:48AM

i think you ALL need to realise...

Uganda bought these planes, despite being landlocked at a bargain price... they can easily be re-equipped for Any tank purposes and well... Every country needs a military.

Simple as lads... though i know we are paying for it..

could be worse... Their could be no genocides and the world gets over populated.

Richard Hillman · 19-08-2011 02:13AM

When America gives aid its strings attached to benefit themselves. We and our collection of left wing posing as right governments just seem to give stuff away willy nilly.

Amhran Nua · 19-08-2011 02:46AM

SamHarris wrote: »

does not mean he is wrong.

This is Myers were talking about, whose face appears beside "fail" in the dictionary.

ascanbe · 19-08-2011 02:58AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

When America gives aid its strings attached to benefit themselves. We and our collection of left wing posing as right governments just seem to give stuff away willy nilly.

With all due respect, you don't know what the **** you're on about.
Look into how good ol' Bertie, when 'we' were riding high on hubris around 2002, wanting to be President of the European Council, promised 0.7% of GNP to Official Devolpment Assitance; in fact, i think he might have promised to go beyond that, so has to further cement his reputation in Europe, and Ireland as being a rich country willing to selflesslly spread its largesse.
It wasn't about 'politically correct liberals giving our money away', as no-one liberal or otherwise voted directly on this, it was about a taoiseach and government seeking seeking validation and to act like big wealthy boys on the world stage.
Of course, as it turned out, we didn't come anywhere near reaching that promised target and, of course, as it turned out, we were in fact caught in a bubble destined to burst.
So that's the context of the agreement we, along with every other country considered 'first world' at the time, signed up to, even though we didn't reach our target.
And that's before we get into how rigged trade laws are designed to keep poor, and keep as avenues of profit, the very countries we, though no longer 'we' since we're now no more than indentured 'debt-slaves', and the rest of the rich 'western' nations deign to give aid to.
But, hey, what would Myers care about any of that?
His pathetic agenda has nothing to do with the issue ostensibly at hand in this thread.

thebigbiffo · 19-08-2011 10:18AM

ascanbe wrote: »

Myers, as usual, dangles the carrot in front of the donkeys and the donkeys set off after it, braying, as usual, about 'lefty, pc-loonies' etc as they go.
Of course there is a kernel of truth in what Myers writes, he's not a dummy; he knows he has to have a string on which to attach the carrot.
Of course, as usual, he knows he can choose to completely ignore the context of the situation, as the donkeys have no interest in this.
And one would have to wonder why, in the context of all that's happening at the moment, why this particular subject exercises him to such a degree.
But, of course, his agenda isn't really about aid to Uganda or Ireland's aid-budget in general; and some of the donkeys are well aware of this.

Who cares what his 'agenda' is? he's a journalist, and all journalists have to have an agenda. as long as he's making people aware that some serious dosh is being spent on utterly ridiculous 'causes' it's a job well done. i still can't believe something like this doesn't garner more attention in the wider media.

ascanbe wrote: »

With all due respect, you don't know what the **** you're on about.
Look into how good ol' Bertie, when 'we' were riding high on hubris around 2002, wanting to be President of the European Council, promised 0.7% of GNP to Official Devolpment Assitance; in fact, i think he might have promised to go beyond that, so has to further cement his reputation in Europe, and Ireland as being a rich country willing to selflesslly spread its largesse.
It wasn't about 'politically correct liberals giving our money away', as no-one liberal or otherwise voted directly on this, it was about a taoiseach and government seeking seeking validation and to act like big wealthy boys on the world stage.
Of course, as it turned out, we didn't come anywhere near reaching that promised target and, of course, as it turned out, we were in fact caught in a bubble destined to burst.
So that's the context of the agreement we, along with every other country considered 'first world' at the time, signed up to, even though we didn't reach our target.
And that's before we get into how rigged trade laws are designed to keep poor, and keep as avenues of profit, the very countries we, though no longer 'we' since we're now no more than indentured 'debt-slaves', and the rest of the rich 'western' nations deign to give aid to.
But, hey, what would Myers care about any of that?
His pathetic agenda has nothing to do with the issue ostensibly at hand in this thread.

as much as i agree with the theme of this post you're still missing the point. it's like you would disagree with someone pointing out that Bertie was a tosser - as you've just done - just because you dislike the person pointing it out. contradict much

Gneez · 19-08-2011 10:30AM

Ah the things people do because of liberal white guilt and altruism, enjoy paying for blacks to breed and become dependant on western aid with your taxes, while you all work dead end jobs in the service industry with a perpetually falling minimum wage!

Wibbs · 19-08-2011 11:34AM

Oh god. Shark jumped.

s20101938 · 19-08-2011 12:51PM

Once again Myers is right, as usual. In fact I agree with everything he's ever said, and I've read all his Irishmans Diaries and most articles over the years. He tells it like it is and has the intelligence, wit and encyclopedic knowledge of history to back it up. He's right about Africa, he was always right about republicans and their revisionist rubbish, he's right about Islam, the US military, he was right about single mothers. It's high time he was recognised for the fantastic contribution to Irish society he has made over the years. Bravo Kevin, Bravo Sir....*tips hat*

Nodin · 19-08-2011 12:56PM

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Ummm..... the dictionary definition of a bastard is a child of a single mother

Sam Harris wrote:

Bastards is the correct term is it not?

mickemac wrote:

Pick up a law book, still used

As is illegitimate

Usage

In the past the word bastard was the standard term in both legal and non-legal use for ‘an illegitimate child’. Today, however , it has little importance as a legal term and is retained in this older sense only as a term of abuse

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bastard

Wibbs wrote:

Oh oh you've confused him now.

I'm easily confused? I suppose I must be, seeing as a towering intellect such as yourself has pronounced upon it.

thebigbiffo · 19-08-2011 01:03PM

Nodin wrote: »

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bastard

I'm easily confused? I suppose I must be, seeing as a towering intellect such as yourself has pronounced upon it.

ahh come on Nodin, so what? he used the word bastard which can be used as both an actual definition of an illegitimate child and a term of abuse but the gist of what he was getting at is right. as i've said - he's a bit of a troll but you must admit he's got the balls to take the unpopular line.

as far as i'm concerned he's right more often than he's wrong and voices like his aren't heard enough.

Sky King · 19-08-2011 01:07PM

There's a country that spends a billion a year on their defence budget while the healthcare system is in rack and ruin and people are still homeless on the streets.

It's called Ireland. Whats the diff?

Wibbs · 19-08-2011 01:08PM

s20101938 wrote: »

Once again Myers is right, as usual. In fact I agree with everything he's ever said, and I've read all his Irishmans Diaries and most articles over the years. He tells it like it is and has the intelligence, wit and encyclopedic knowledge of history to back it up. He's right about Africa, he was always right about republicans and their revisionist rubbish, he's right about Islam, the US military, he was right about single mothers. It's high time he was recognised for the fantastic contribution to Irish society he has made over the years. Bravo Kevin, Bravo Sir....*tips hat*

Nope IMH he's a troll, a troll that sells papers. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. In this case he's just about telling the right time, but mostly not so much or his arguments can be easily picked apart.

Nodin wrote:

I'm easily confused? I suppose I must be, seeing as a towering intellect such as yourself has pronounced upon it.

Towering intellect? Hmm dunno about that, however it may explain why I mostly seem to be looking down on some alright.

Nodin · 19-08-2011 01:17PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

ahh come on Nodin, so what? he used the word bastard which can be used as both an actual definition of an illegitimate child and a term of abuse but the gist of what he was getting at is right.
.

.....to get a dig in. O How clever and brave, slagging off the children of single mothers.

thebigbiffo wrote: »

as i've said - he's a bit of a troll but you must admit he's got the balls to take the unpopular line.
.

And you say that because it happens to be a line you agree with.

thebigbiffo wrote: »

as far as i'm concerned he's right more often than he's wrong and voices like his aren't heard enough.

This is the guy who asked why Africa and Haiti needed aid, but Europe recovered from the second world war without it. Did he mention the Marshall plan? O no, that would be an inconvenient fact.

This is the same 'brave' chap who mourned the number of African and Asian faces in London, who would no nothing of the sacrifices of World war II. Did he bother to mention the Sikhs, Gurkhas and other indians who along with many black Africans served and fought in both world wars and for britain for centuries? Fuck no, that too would be an inconvenient fact.

Myers (again) on Uganda 'development aid'

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