Free Man Society

MungBean · 18-08-2011 06:53PM #1

Whats the deal with this free man society lark ? I'm hearing the term more and more and recently was also informed a good few people who live close by attend free man meetings regular.

Seen a few clips on youtube about it and its basically just clowns arguing with Gardai claiming they are being unlawful. Seeing as its mostly people in trouble with the law that are involved in this I'd imagine its just some kind of lame attempt to weasel out of whatever they have done by challenging the law itself.

Any free men around to enlighten us as to why they are above the law ?

Fago! · 18-08-2011 06:57PM

Hello, I'm Morgan Free man. You are reading this in my voice.

Buceph · 18-08-2011 06:58PM

Hello, I am Gordon Freeman, you are not reading this in my voice.

Guill · 18-08-2011 06:59PM

Hello, I am Gordon Freeman, you are not reading this in my voice.

Why we doing this?

Chuck Stone · 18-08-2011 07:05PM

It's an interesting concept which I was looking into recently.

My understanding is that the freemen movement claim that when you're born you're birth cert kinda ties you into a system of being viewed as a corporate entity which allows you to be prosected in a civil court without having entered into contracts (speeding fines, insurance, taxes levied, TV licence etc).

Apparently when we go to court we inadvertently allow them to have jurisdiction over us as corporate entities by slight of tongue legalese.

That's my rudimentary understanding.

Edit: Hello my name is Ramadan Griefman. You are smelling me with your eyes.

marcsignal · 18-08-2011 07:05PM

I'm not free at the moment........

...this is a recording :pac:

.

Oh_Noes · 18-08-2011 07:05PM

Can I exchange mine for a free woman instead?

MagicSean · 18-08-2011 07:06PM

They think they are children of God and only obligated to obey Gods law

Diageio_Man · 18-08-2011 07:06PM

Freemen = crustys.

My name is URL · 18-08-2011 07:08PM

Hookah wrote: »

The philosophy runs thus...

Common law jurisdictions derive their law from British Law, which stretches back to the Magna Carta.

Common law was based around around the simple philosophy of causing no harm, loss or injury to another, and using no fraud in your dealings.

These laws cover a whole gamut of crimes, from theft to murder to burglary etc. and the freeman has no issue with these laws. They are for the common good.

Down the centuries various acts were introduced to govern society and it is with a lot of these statutes that the freeman has trouble. (if you're still reading please note that there is a distinction between the common law and statutory law)

The freeman sees these statutes as being detrimental to society, say the Misuse of drugs Act, or as being for the benefit of the ruling elite, say the laws governing finance, or the zoning of land, or tax laws, which various ruling elites have used and are now using to leach our country.

Judges have taken an oath to uphold the law. The freeman argues that this oath pertains to common law only.

Where a judge presides over a case covered by statutory legislation, say the issuing of a speeding fine, the freemen say that this is not in accordance with the judge's oath, nor the rule of the judiciary.

Similarly the freeman sees the role of the Gardai as upholders of the law, keepers of the peace if you will, and not as enforcers of statutory legislation, say the knocking down of someones door to capture a tomato plant.

That, apparently.

MagicSean · 18-08-2011 07:09PM

Did I mention they think they should not have to pay tax but should still be entitled to dole and healthcare and education? Because that's important.

cml387 · 18-08-2011 07:10PM

Long thread in Conspiracy Theories.

Warning:as you read it your brain will gradually leak out of your head.

bonzodog2 · 18-08-2011 07:13PM

Don't bother asking about this in the Legal Discussion forum, they'll throw a fit !

Quazzie · 18-08-2011 07:14PM

cml387 wrote: »

Long thread in Conspiracy Theories.

Warning:as you read it your brain will gradually leak out of your head.

That's what they want you to believe.

Executive Steve · 18-08-2011 07:20PM

Diageio_Man wrote: »

Freemen = crustys.

On a global scale, after a quick Google anyway, it's would appear to be a really really odd hotchpotch of crusties, libertarians, the Jim Corr brigade, anti-semites, black gang members in Baltimore, white supremacists, David Icke, the singer from East 17 and anti-water fluoridation campaigners.

Basically it's one of those odd little memes that seep out from the crazier corners of the internet from time to time now that Geocities is gone and the crazies have to share the internet with the rest of us.

blackdog2 · 18-08-2011 07:24PM

Hello, I am More Than Free man. You are less free than me

Buceph · 18-08-2011 07:24PM

Ah yeah, the famous "You can't make me tidy my room Mom, I didn't ask to be born!" argument.

MungBean · 18-08-2011 07:30PM

Surely you cant pull that one once ya sign on the dole. I mean your saying "Here I am, a member of this society, I'm hungry and cold, please feed and clothe me" then ya get caught growing weed and all of a sudden "You cant force your law on me, I'm a free man and not contractually obligated to pay anything in this "society" of yours".

mickydoomsux · 18-08-2011 07:30PM

Yeah, it's pretty much spongers and crusties giving themselves a new name.

They don't want to put into the system or abide by its rules but they will take anything they can get from it for nothing. Guess that's where the "Free" part of the name comes in.

cml387 · 18-08-2011 07:34PM

I believe I read a case recently where the crusty was up on a fairly minor charge, and he challenged the judge on the oath he took.

The judge pondered the question for a few moments and then decided to remand the crusty in Clover Hill while he figured out what to do next.

Not the outcome expected I would guess.

My name is URL · 18-08-2011 07:38PM

http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/08/17/challenging-a-wexford-judge-to-produce-his-oath-being-remanded-and-then-released/

Chuck Stone · 18-08-2011 07:40PM

What intrigues me is the vitriol that seems to arise from critics of the freemen.

Libertarians and anarchists also face this vitriol. Rather than actually consider their ideas, postulations, and criticisms of the status quo critics seem to get angry and engage in ad hominem attacks and ask to walked by the hand into the detailed alternative future like some sort of frightened child.

Intriguing.

Buceph · 18-08-2011 07:42PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What intrigues me is the vitriol that seems to arise from critics of the freemen.

Libertarians and anarchists also face this vitriol. Rather than actually consider their ideas, postulations, and criticisms of the status quo critics seem to get angry and engage in ad hominem attacks and ask to walked by the hand into the detailed alternative future like some sort of frightened child.

Intriguing.

I think you're confusing people laughing at them with vitriol.

mikemac · 18-08-2011 07:45PM

Fair enough.
If they want nothing to do with the State just deny them welfare.

After all, that is controlled by the Finance Bill and they have lots of issues with statutory acts including not recognizing them

cml387 · 18-08-2011 07:46PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What intrigues me is the vitriol that seems to arise from critics of the freemen.

Libertarians and anarchists also face this vitriol. Rather than actually consider their ideas, postulations, and criticisms of the status quo critics seem to get angry and engage in ad hominem attacks and ask to walked by the hand into the detailed alternative future like some sort of frightened child.

Intriguing.

The pursuit of the utopian dream and the freedom of man is indeed a noble and worthy cause.

I would suspect that most "freemen" are looking to avoid either

a) Paying tax
b) A conviction under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1984

Emiko · 18-08-2011 07:52PM

cml387 wrote: »

b) A conviction under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1984

A couple of Freemen challenged the drug laws in Scotland last year.

They wrote to the authorities, said they were going to grow some weed, and after having the plants seized a number of times, were eventually brought before the court, whereupon they challenged the laws using Freeman principles.

Last i heard they were on remand, but I never heard the outcome.

Some of it is here...http://www.fmotl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=5809

Chuck Stone · 18-08-2011 07:52PM

Buceph wrote: »

I think you're confusing people laughing at them with vitriol.

Nope, I'm pretty sure it's vitriol. It seems some people are just naturally averse to alternative ideas.

Just look at the answers in this thread or any other thread that espouses alternative ideals from the traditional (aristocratic - I know what's good for you) 'left' and the traditional (just plain evil conservative) 'right'.

MungBean · 18-08-2011 07:54PM

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What intrigues me is the vitriol that seems to arise from critics of the freemen.

Libertarians and anarchists also face this vitriol. Rather than actually consider their ideas, postulations, and criticisms of the status quo critics seem to get angry and engage in ad hominem attacks and ask to walked by the hand into the detailed alternative future like some sort of frightened child.

Intriguing.

Its interesting to an extent but when its mostly people trying to get out paying fines and get off of drugs charges you have to expect a certain amount of hostility towards it.

If it was old man Jim next door trying to get out of paying property tax I'd have some time for it. But when its the 20 somethings in the estate down the road trying to figure out how to get away with growing weed I'm a little more dubious.

Chuck Stone · 18-08-2011 08:01PM

cml387 wrote: »

The pursuit of the utopian dream and the freedom of man is indeed a noble and worthy cause.

I would suspect that most "freemen" are looking to avoid either

a) Paying tax

Tax can be used to do great evil. Who was it that said 'war is the health of the state'?.

b) A conviction under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1984

So?

Drug prohibition laws are just plain evil and punish individuals, families, communities and societies.

The multi billion dollar global drug war has been an abject failure. The prohibition of drugs has become a tax-payer raping cluster fuck for the legal apparatus of states (police, solicitors, customs officials, judges, prison officers, parole officers).

MagicSean · 18-08-2011 08:03PM

My name is URL wrote: »

http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/08/17/challenging-a-wexford-judge-to-produce-his-oath-being-remanded-and-then-released/

In actual fact he did not walk free. He was granted high court bail and was back in court on Wednesday. This was as a result of him dropping all his ideals and hiring a legal team.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

What intrigues me is the vitriol that seems to arise from critics of the freemen.

Libertarians and anarchists also face this vitriol. Rather than actually consider their ideas, postulations, and criticisms of the status quo critics seem to get angry and engage in ad hominem attacks and ask to walked by the hand into the detailed alternative future like some sort of frightened child.

Intriguing.

The vitriol is towards their extreme hypocrisy.

My name is URL · 18-08-2011 08:04PM

mikemac wrote: »

Fair enough.
If they want nothing to do with the State just deny them welfare.

After all, that is controlled by the Finance Bill and they have lots of issues with statutory acts including not recognizing them

So, if I sign an affidavit which means I can never be entitled to any sort of welfare payment or free healthcare etc, it mean that I would, in return, be exempt from paying taxes and allowed to grow a bit of weed? Sign me up!

Free Man Society

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