Myers (again) on Uganda 'development aid'

thebigbiffo · 18-08-2011 01:54PM #1

Yeah yeah yeah - Myers is a troll but sometimes he so hits the nail on the head - and he did it again today.

The column doesn't seem to be on the Indo website as yet but it's from todays edition and I'll simplify it for you...it'll save the tl;dr's anyway.

Uganda have just taken delivery of the first 2 of their 6 brand spanking new supersonic Sukhoi Su-30MK2 jet fighters which specialize and were designed for 'anti-shipping' use - basically naval warfare and sea border protection - total cost €512m. Now, Uganda are landlocked. They share Lake Victoria with Tanzania and Kenya, but I dont think they need worry too much about hostility emerging from either.

This year Irish Aid (that's the mug taxpayer for the uninformed) will contribute €166m over 5 years (€33.2m per year) to Uganda in development aid, 66% goes to the government, 29% to civil society and 4% to other UN organisations - that money's going to have to be borrowed so that means that with interest the real cost to me and you could be €300m (Myers calculations).

Irish Aid say the money is 'ringfenced against corruption' - which I dont buy for a second - but as Myers points out, what we're essentially doing is freeing up Ugandan government resources so they can buy fighter jets they probably wont need.

This sickens my arse for want of a better term. I wont go in to what I would like to see done with the money for fear of seeming selfish but sufffice it to say we certainly have many of our own problems that €300m would cover off nicely. Starving kids is one thing (even though we know half of it is robbed, at least starving kids are getting half the food) but financing the 'development' of a landlocked nation's sea protection capability seems completely and utterly stupid.

Got your goat AH?

First poster to say mention banks or bailouts gets a visit from facekicker.

stovelid · 18-08-2011 01:57PM

OUTRAGEOUS WEST BRIT.

What is the article about anyway?

CardBordWindow · 18-08-2011 01:58PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

Yeah yeah yeah - Myers is a troll but sometimes he so hits the nail on the head - and he did it again today.

The column doesn't seem to be on the Indo website as yet but it's from todays edition and I'll simplify it for you...it'll save the tl;dr's anyway.

Uganda have just taken delivery of the first 2 of their 6 brand spanking new supersonic Sukhoi Su-30MK2 jet fighters which specialize and were designed for 'anti-shipping' use - basically naval warfare and sea border protection - total cost €512m. Now, Uganda are landlocked. They share Lake Victoria with Tanzania and Kenya, but I dont think they need worry too much about hostility emerging from either.

This year Irish Aid (that's the mug taxpayer for the uninformed) will contribute €166m over 5 years (€33.2m per year) to Uganda in development aid, 66% goes to the government, 29% to civil society and 4% to other UN organisations - that money's going to have to be borrowed so that means that with interest the real cost to me and you could be €300m (Myers calculations).

Irish Aid say the money is 'ringfenced against corruption' - which I dont buy for a second - but as Myers points out, what we're essentially doing is freeing up Ugandan government resources so they can buy fighter jets they probably wont need.

This sickens my arse for want of a better term. I wont go in to what I would like to see done with the money for fear of seeming selfish but sufffice it to say we certainly have many of our own problems that €300m would cover off nicely. Starving kids is one thing (even though we know half of it is robbed, at least starving kids are getting half the food) but financing the 'development' of a landlocked nation's sea protection capability seems completely and utterly stupid.

Got your goat AH?

First poster to say mention banks or bailouts gets a visit from facekicker.

Mike Myers was an OGRE in shrek!

sollar · 18-08-2011 02:00PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

Yeah yeah yeah - Myers is a troll but sometimes he so hits the nail on the head - and he did it again today.

I don't buy this troll thing with him. He is a journalist, he writes with an interesting perspective and is not a PC whore like so many these days.

I tend to agree with alot of what he says. Sometimes he over eggs it but he is right again on this piece imo.

thebigbiffo · 18-08-2011 02:02PM

sollar wrote: »

I don't buy this troll thing with him. He is a journalist, he writes with an interesting perspective and is not a PC whore like so many these days.

I tend to agree with alot of what he says. Sometimes he over eggs it but he is right again on this piece imo.

that's pretty accurate and is probably what I meant! sometimes he does go overboard and you can tell when he hasn't found anything juicy - but he hits on stuff like this at times and you wonder why it's not front page news in every paper and causing a complete uproar! why is that!?

pickarooney · 18-08-2011 02:04PM

Doesn't every country spend silly money on toys while its people starve?

thebigbiffo · 18-08-2011 02:06PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Doesn't every country spend silly money on toys while its people starve?

possibly - but it's not normally my money.

18-08-2011 02:06PM

I was in Uganda a few weeks ago. It is a very corrupt country. Government officials and their cronies live like kings while the average person struggles to survive. It's like a more extreme version of Ireland.

There is no doubt that many of the citizens need aid, but this aid should be delivered through NGOs who work on the ground. Giving money to the Ugandan government (or pretty much any African government) is pointless and serves only to increase the gap between the rich and the poor.

Wibbs · 18-08-2011 02:07PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Doesn't every country spend silly money on toys while its people starve?

Yea P but it's another level of surreal when another country borrows money to give it to them to do so.

stateofflux · 18-08-2011 02:41PM

sollar wrote: »

I don't buy this troll thing with him. He is a journalist, he writes with an interesting perspective and is not a PC whore like so many these days.

I tend to agree with alot of what he says. Sometimes he over eggs it but he is right again on this piece imo.

i agree, id rather him than some of the other pro FF lacky journo's in the indo with no backbone.

spank_inferno · 18-08-2011 02:47PM

So we are borrowing money to give to one of the most corrupt nations in the world allowing them to use other resources to purchase Air-to-sea attack aircraft.... despite that country being landlocked.

Compared to the 22 billion we gave to Anglo... its almost sensible expenditure.

Sooopie · 18-08-2011 02:52PM

sollar wrote: »

I don't buy this troll thing with him. He is a journalist, he writes with an interesting perspective and is not a PC whore like so many these days.

I tend to agree with alot of what he says. Sometimes he over eggs it but he is right again on this piece imo.

amen!!!

orourkeda · 18-08-2011 02:56PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEeQEYuvvCA

thebigbiffo · 18-08-2011 03:01PM

spank_inferno wrote: »

So we are borrowing money to give to one of the most corrupt nations in the world allowing them to use other resources to purchase Air-to-sea attack aircraft.... despite that country being landlocked.

Compared to the 22 billion we gave to Anglo... its almost sensible expenditure.

you were warned, PM sent to facekicker so god have mercy on your face...

Irish Aid had a budget of 671m last year and 33m went to Uganda - that's 5% of their total budget gone to help fund an expansion of their military. I'm guessing the vast majority went to African countries where it went straight to the pockets of wealthy politicians and corrupt businessmen - yet, we as a people seem to think hundreds of millions of our money should be pumped in to these places even though it's very clear they do not have the same value about their own people that we do.

Myers talks in the article about Somalis where he says the culture is almost of a complete disregard for human life. Life means nothing. This with reports that up to 50% of aid reaching Somalia is stolen and sold locally makes me think we're simply stupid. If the culture out there is like that, pumping money and commodities at them wont change a thing. maybe education/religion or something will!

This ties in well to something i've been thinking recently too - have you seen the reports of the women who've been leaving their babies on the side of the road because they can't feed them and are trying to reach camps or whatever? In the context of their culture/way of thinking, i think it migtht just show how they do not put the sanme value on life as we do. I dont think anything could make me leave one of my children on the side of the road and walk away - i couldn't do it. i'd collapse myself and die beside them first. just a thought...but are we not trying to teach a fish to climb a tree with all this aid?

pickarooney · 18-08-2011 05:37PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

possibly - but it's not normally my money.

Money that was just resting in your account surely. Technically my money.

Dionysus · 18-08-2011 06:43PM

sollar wrote: »

I don't buy this troll thing with him. He is ... not a PC whore like so many these days.

I tend to agree with alot of what he says. Sometimes he over eggs it but he is right again on this piece imo.

When you grow up, you'll get it. Some of us have been around long enough to be familiar with his record.

Education also helps when it comes to assessing his pro-British/anti-Irish trolling. For example, this is, after all, a (British born and bred) person who in Irish newspapers glorifies the Irish-born people who died fighting for the British Empire and calls those Irish people who fought against that British Empire for the freedom of Ireland "terrorists" (that includes those in Easter 1916). If Myers had his way, we'd still be under British colonial occupation.

Really, do you want to associate yourself with such a person?

FlutterinBantam · 18-08-2011 06:48PM

stovelid wrote: »

OUTRAGEOUS WEST BRIT.

What is the article about anyway?

Reality, horse, reality, something most of the posters in here know fcuk all about.

:mad:

It BeeMee · 18-08-2011 06:49PM

So it'll take us just over 15 years to own the whole jet fighter?

FlutterinBantam · 18-08-2011 07:50PM

Dionysus wrote: »

When you grow up, you'll get it. Some of us have been around long enough to be familiar with his record.

Education also helps when it comes to assessing his pro-British/anti-Irish trolling. For example, this is, after all, a (British born and bred) person who in Irish newspapers glorifies the Irish-born people who died fighting for the British Empire and calls those Irish people who fought against that British Empire for the freedom of Ireland "terrorists" (that includes those in Easter 1916). If Myers had his way, we'd still be under British colonial occupation.

Really, do you want to associate yourself with such a person?

I do actually, lad actually breaks though the crust of leftie agenda and tells it as it is, most of the time.

Cuts through the stuff most people are afraid to say for fear of coming under attack from the left.

The punters like the 'lovable elf' MDH would squirm in their red thigh boots with some of the home truths this lad stands by.

I spent a lot of time in Uganda, the big MO was the main man and I can safely say nothing happened without a major greasing of palms.

So don't tell me what Mr Myers is truthfully saying.

Spot on Kev.

Sooopie · 18-08-2011 07:52PM

I like the way he winds people up if am honest!

FlutterinBantam · 18-08-2011 07:55PM

Sooopie wrote: »

I like the way he winds people up if am honest!

How is he winding people up?

sollar · 18-08-2011 08:03PM

Dionysus wrote: »

When you grow up, you'll get it. Some of us have been around long enough to be familiar with his record.

Education also helps when it comes to assessing his pro-British/anti-Irish trolling. For example, this is, after all, a (British born and bred) person who in Irish newspapers glorifies the Irish-born people who died fighting for the British Empire and calls those Irish people who fought against that British Empire for the freedom of Ireland "terrorists" (that includes those in Easter 1916). If Myers had his way, we'd still be under British colonial occupation.

Really, do you want to associate yourself with such a person?

So is that all you can come up with... some republican tripe about him being pro British. Pull yourself together and maybe do a bit of growing up yourself.

dsmythy · 18-08-2011 08:08PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

How is he winding people up?

He has good points but he could soften his words but I suspect deliberately doesn't. Then again why should he when he gets so many outraged people sending hits towards the site

mikemac · 18-08-2011 08:11PM

Now I'm no General but a landlocked country buying supersonic aircraft for anti-shipping and naval warfare?

FlutterinBantam · 18-08-2011 08:16PM

dsmythy wrote: »

He has good points but he could soften his words but I suspect deliberately doesn't. Then again why should he when he gets so many outraged people sending hits towards the site

The only 'outraged' people he kicks from under their slates are people who think that they don't need to contribute to survive.

Those, and the coterie who embed themselves in jobs funded by the nation and then use that position to promote left wing rhetoric, safe in the knowledge that they never will have to endure the stalags.

You know who you are:D

Nodin · 18-08-2011 08:49PM

sollar wrote: »

So is that all you can come up with... some republican tripe about him being pro British. Pull yourself together and maybe do a bit of growing up yourself.

I'm unclear here - are you saying he didn't write those articles?

Do you agree with his other articles, such as his lament for the lack of 'caucasian faces' in london? That Africa contributes nothing to the World except AIDs?

Do you agree with his description of the children of single mothers as "bastards"?

obplayer · 18-08-2011 08:52PM

thebigbiffo wrote: »

Yeah yeah yeah - Myers is a troll but sometimes he so hits the nail on the head - and he did it again today.

The column doesn't seem to be on the Indo website as yet but it's from todays edition and I'll simplify it for you...it'll save the tl;dr's anyway.

Uganda have just taken delivery of the first 2 of their 6 brand spanking new supersonic Sukhoi Su-30MK2 jet fighters which specialize and were designed for 'anti-shipping' use - basically naval warfare and sea border protection - total cost €512m. Now, Uganda are landlocked. They share Lake Victoria with Tanzania and Kenya, but I dont think they need worry too much about hostility emerging from either.

This year Irish Aid (that's the mug taxpayer for the uninformed) will contribute €166m over 5 years (€33.2m per year) to Uganda in development aid, 66% goes to the government, 29% to civil society and 4% to other UN organisations - that money's going to have to be borrowed so that means that with interest the real cost to me and you could be €300m (Myers calculations).

Irish Aid say the money is 'ringfenced against corruption' - which I dont buy for a second - but as Myers points out, what we're essentially doing is freeing up Ugandan government resources so they can buy fighter jets they probably wont need.

This sickens my arse for want of a better term. I wont go in to what I would like to see done with the money for fear of seeming selfish but sufffice it to say we certainly have many of our own problems that €300m would cover off nicely. Starving kids is one thing (even though we know half of it is robbed, at least starving kids are getting half the food) but financing the 'development' of a landlocked nation's sea protection capability seems completely and utterly stupid.

Got your goat AH?

First poster to say mention banks or bailouts gets a visit from facekicker.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-why-should-we-burden-our-unborn-generations-with-debt-to-finance-fighter-jets-in-uganda-2851161.html

--Kaiser-- · 18-08-2011 09:16PM

Nodin wrote: »

Do you agree with his description of the children of single mothers as "bastards"?

Ummm..... the dictionary definition of a bastard is a child of a single mother

Dionysus · 18-08-2011 09:16PM

sollar wrote: »

So is that all you can come up with... some republican tripe about him being pro British. Pull yourself together and maybe do a bit of growing up yourself.

hehe. Myers would be among the first to concede he is, in fact, pro-British when it comes to judging people who fight for Irish freedom versus people who fight for the British Empire. You can keep your head in the sand there all you like about the guy's views on Irish people who fought for Irish freedom, and lambast those of us who highlight it. It doesn't really change the reality that is Myers' hatred for the very concept of Irish separatism from the British Empire, and contempt for all Irish people who fought against British rule in this country.

PS: "republican tripe" (ha!), when it's of the Irish variety, is infinitely better any day than the imperialist tripe for which your hero Myers is known.
It's an odd state of affairs that somebody who claims to be Irish, as I presume you do, could think otherwise.

Badgermonkey · 18-08-2011 09:36PM

Dionysus wrote: »

PS: "republican tripe" (ha!), when it's of the Irish variety, is infinitely better any day than the imperialist tripe for which your hero Myers is known.
It's an odd state of affairs that somebody who claims to be Irish, as I presume you do, could think otherwise.

To paraphrase Mrs. Thatch tripe is tripe is tripe.

A mawkish and uncritical indulgence in the cult of the fallen is oft spouted by Myers and members of Real/Continuity Boards.ie.:D

Wibbs · 18-08-2011 09:40PM

Dionysus wrote: »

When you grow up, you'll get it.

A phrase almost always associated with those who would be best looking in the mirror when they say it.

Regardless... if a devil tells you the sky is blue, it doesn't detract from the blueness of the sky. I don't agree with myers on many many things and even those areas with some common agreement I find him a low grade troll in the telling.

In this case I agree with him. It's a waste of money. It's a waste of money we are borrowing to waste and it's money that will be wasted on people who it's not aimed at. Hey if what passes for the "left" these days thinking that "it's good we're sending money, it doesn't matter how or where it ends up, it's the thought that counts, because it's going to de black babies after all", then knock yourselves out.

Myers (again) on Uganda 'development aid'

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