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Are things that bad?

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    You get free money for having kids and it's a choice to have them in the first place.

    Zero sympathy.
    You'll be making out a cheque to the state for all of the money the state paid towards your education and child benefit etc?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭SheFiend


    fearbainne wrote: »
    I don't hate women Fearbainne, I don't know where you got that idea. :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    On the flip side - the children didn`t ask to be brought into this world and looking after them is for the common good. IF thats actually where the money ends out thou.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 freckles1234


    Its not the childrens fault that they are born, parents can afford to go out drinking and go out foreign on their holidays but then they get money of the vincent the paul to put their children through school. What a Joke


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭hinault


    Sorry for the bleak subject,but vincent de paul are back saying they can barely cope with parents applying who cant afford to put their kids through school,im sure the same will happen over Christmas when their little darlings cant afford that big toy they wanted.

    My understanding the utility and mortgage bills are the big stranglehold,some people through no fault are living in poverty thanks to the wealth of taxes from gov and suppliers.

    so are things gone bad or is it just an appeal to donate to svp?.

    in my experience sdp are a very pragmatic and hardworking organisation and they call it as they see it.
    I wouldn't discount what they say.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Any remember the Christmas bonus the long term unemployed got? You needed to be unemployed for over fifteen months to get it.

    So the last government ended it and this was done in April.
    Now if it was done in late November I'd understand anger but it was April so lots and lots of notice.
    rage and anger whipped up the St Vincent de Paul and Fr. McVerry and the usual lobby groups.

    A bit overdone in my opinion.
    Pensioners or people on disability didn't get double payments as I remember.

    Plus if you were unemployed in April, how did they know you would still be unemployed next December?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭7sr2z3fely84g5


    hinault wrote: »
    in my experience sdp are a very pragmatic and hardworking organisation and they call it as they see it.
    I wouldn't discount what they say.

    im not,i would rather donate to them or simon community instead of the usual charities,but i wonder do some people abuse the generosity of the charity because they refuse to give up their celtic tiger processions?.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭SheFiend


    i wonder do some people abuse the generosity of the charity because they refuse to give up their celtic tiger processions?.
    I'd hate to think that some do. Sadly I suspect it though. It's sad to think that a charity could be abused when there are families that are genuinely in need.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    k4kate wrote: »
    Dead right. Italy, Japan and the Us all have problems because an aging population is not replacing itself.

    The kids of today are the tax payers of tomorrow

    So whats the answer then? Eternal population growth in a world of diminishing resources??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    So whats the answer then? Eternal population growth in a world of diminishing resources??

    Replacement levels in countries with an ageing population.
    That or large scale immigration.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,660 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    hinault wrote: »
    in my experience sdp are a very pragmatic and hardworking organisation and they call it as they see it.
    I wouldn't discount what they say.

    The Vincent de Paul are full of crap.
    As the country tries to come to terms with the combined fire storm of the recession and the Budget, it is at least somewhat refreshing to see that we haven't lost our charitable instincts.

    On the radio, on television, in print and via email, we have all received innumerable exhortations to momentarily forget about our own problems and instead start to think of those less fortunate than ourselves.

    It's a noble sentiment and there is no doubt that the need for charitable organisations has never been greater.

    As a spokesman for the St Vincent de Paul correctly pointed out yesterday, the cuts in social welfare will force people who were already hanging on by their fingertips into the arms of groups like his.

    And while the Vincent de Paul do sterling work, I am sure of one thing -- they won't be getting any cash from me this Christmas.

    This is not, you understand, because I am feeling even more Scrooge-like than normal; nor is it a desire to see more people have a miserable Christmas.

    Rather, it is because of an experience I had two Christmases ago which was a real eye-opener in terms of how charity is administered.

    A good mate of mine was a volunteer for the group and, realising that it was about time I tried to bank any karmic points that might be out there, I agreed to help him out with a charity drive one night.

    And so, in the company of some genuinely selfless volunteers, we went into the north inner city to deliver the traditional Christmas hamper.

    Except the recipients weren't getting a hamper -- they were being handed envelopes full of cash.

    The amount differed according to the perceived needs of each recipient -- or 'clients' as they were politely referred to -- and the whole experience was, frankly, nauseating.

    For understandable, if misguided reasons, volunteers are warned not to make any judgments against the people receiving the free money, but the bile rose in the back of my throat with each house we visited.

    Because what became clear was that these people were not poor -- the vast majority of them were simply lazy, indolent good-for-nothings.

    Now, that's going to sound unduly harsh and mean spirited and cruel and judgmental and all those things that are frowned upon.

    But when you go into a house to give someone an envelope of cash and you see that they have a bigger wide-screen telly than you yourself own, then you realise that there is no way you can equate these people with genuine, actual poverty.

    When I pointed out that being so poor and destitute that you required the humiliation of charitable assistance was not exactly consistent with owning a big bloody telly, I was quickly informed that wide-screen televisions were seen as a status symbol among that group of people and therefore they all had one and, again, I should stop being such a judgmental jerk.

    The other thing that struck me was the utter lack of shame the recipients -- young, fit and healthy men in my age group -- showed when they got their envelopes. The first person we encountered was a bloke in his 30s who had seen the volunteers entering his street and he rushed out, demanding in that appalling flat nasal tone so popular these days: "where's meee Christmas hamper?"

    And, having been given his envelope, he sloped off, issuing neither thanks for the gift nor apology for being a healthy man in his 30s reduced to the status of a bum.

    This pattern was replicated in every house we went to -- big-screen telly, eagerly outstretched hand and rarely a word of thanks.

    And then, when one of the people we visited apologised for his dog -- a lovely little fellow -- for barking at us (what dog doesn't bark at someone knocking on their door, for God's sake?) and then issued the statement: "Sorry about that. I'm going to drown him in the canal tomorrow," I finally lost it.

    Here you have a scumbag who talks about drowning dogs and he's being given free money? Where's the justice or common sense in that? I then discovered, via the volunteer I was with, that it is actually against St Vincent de Paul policy to tell their 'clients' that you are going to kick their f***ing head in. Who wudda thunk it?

    But there was one house, the last one we visited, that restored at least some faith in human dignity and, most importantly of all, pride.

    A middle-aged woman who looked several decades older than her true years was single-handedly rearing all of her grandchildren because, I later learned, all her daughters were going through various degrees of drug addiction. She was an incredible woman, a noble throw back to the days of the true working class, not the welfare class that the younger generation had descended into.

    And, tellingly, she was the only 'client' who seemed in any way embarrassed to be relying on the kindness of strangers. "Things will be better next year, please God," she smiled weakly as she took the envelope.

    As we left, I was filled with a burning sense of rage and injustice -- in fact, I wanted to go back to all the previous houses we had visited and take all the envelopes back and give them, instead, to this woman -- someone who genuinely needed and deserved it.

    I've been thinking about that woman since the Budget was announced.

    Why do we, as a society, make life more difficult for people like her? These are the people who hold communities together, who put their own lives on hold while they look after and care for those around them, while we continue to give lazy, work-shy scum free money?

    It's not the fault of the selfless, heroic and, in some areas, physically brave volunteers from the Vinny de Paul and other volunteer groups -- they see what they see every day and have decided it's best to simply try and do the right thing without making the kind of disapproving, libertarian judgments I had formed. They do an incredible job under increasingly hazardous conditions and they all deserve the thanks of a nation.

    Nope -- it's the fault of a society which has told several generations of young men that it's not their fault if they can't get a job, even though, at the time, there was almost full employment and jobs were abundant.

    Let's put it this way -- unless you have a genuine medical condition which precludes you from working, nobody should be entitled to any social-welfare benefits as long as McDonalds are looking for staff. It's as simple as that.

    So, this year, I will as usual be making a donation to charity.

    But it will come in the form of teddy bears and toys and things that will help to make a kid's Christmas a bit more bearable -- and you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be no cash involved
    .

    Link to article.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    The Vincent de Paul are full of crap.



    Link to article.

    Well. If Ian O'Doherty says so.:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    So whats the answer then? Eternal population growth in a world of diminishing resources??

    The answer surely is to aim for the birth rate remaining as is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    You get free money for having kids and it's a choice to have them in the first place.

    Zero sympathy.

    And so many people make poor choices in that regard.


    Like yorema


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    The answer surely is to aim for the birth rate remaining as is.

    if the birth rate remains as it is the world population will grow exponentially. If we just have a replacement rate then the population pyramid changes shape to a column and we still have a problem. Ireland currently has a birth rate that matches the replacement rate.

    Actually the only solution in the long term is to either reduce pensioner benefits, make people work longer or reduce the global population significantly.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    Pressure needs to be put on the schools to get rid of these bullshit crested uniforms. My uniform used to cost 200 quid, that was just for a kilt (aka a long piece of material), a black jumper with a tiny crest on it and a school coat, which we had to wear. Any other coat was banned and would be confiscated. We were meant to get a school tracksuit too but I just wore regular stuff and no teacher ever questioned me, mostly because they thought the rule was retarded too.

    It's insane! In Dunnes you can get 2 skirts,a few shirts and a jumper for 20 quid, sorted. The schools can offer an iron on crest for a few quid if the crest is so bloody important to them.

    Books are another racket, in secondary school they cost upwards of €150 a year, and the books change (extremely slightly) every year so it's really hard to pass books on to siblings anymore.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    if the birth rate remains as it is the world population will grow exponentially. If we just have a replacement rate then the population pyramid changes shape to a column and we still have a problem. Ireland currently has a birth rate that matches the replacement rate.

    Actually the only solution in the long term is to either reduce pensioner benefits, make people work longer or reduce the global population significantly.

    I thought you just meant Ireland, nevermind.

    We can always just start eating our old anyway.
    phasers wrote: »
    Pressure needs to be put on the schools to get rid of these bullshit crested uniforms. My uniform used to cost 200 quid, that was just for a kilt (aka a long piece of material), a black jumper with a tiny crest on it and a school coat, which we had to wear. Any other coat was banned and would be confiscated. We were meant to get a school tracksuit too but I just wore regular stuff and no teacher ever questioned me, mostly because they thought the rule was retarded too.

    It's insane! In Dunnes you can get 2 skirts,a few shirts and a jumper for 20 quid, sorted. The schools can offer an iron on crest for a few quid if the crest is so bloody important to them.

    Books are another racket, in secondary school they cost upwards of €150 a year, and the books change (extremely slightly) every year so it's really hard to pass books on to siblings anymore.

    +1. My brother can't use any of my old books for his leaving. In college I always just use whatever edition they have in the library but it's a lot more difficult to do that in school when the teacher uses the book to teach from.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭carlybabe1


    fedor.2. wrote: »
    Some bitter people around here, i hope real life never catches up with them and bursts their bubble

    dontcha love it, karma is a bitch ;)
    school books for first year is 300 e, thats just the effing books, jumper is 50, the jumper :eek:, then have to get rest of uniform, plus coat,(no penneys shlte here, and its a public school), tracksuit shoes, and runners :mad: (they have to be the kind (expensive) that wont leave marks on the gym floor) :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    carlybabe1 wrote: »
    dontcha love it, karma is a bitch ;)
    school books for first year is 300 e, thats just the effing books, jumper is 50, the jumper :eek:, then have to get rest of uniform, plus coat,(no penneys shlte here, and its a public school), tracksuit shoes, and runners :mad: (they have to be the kind (expensive) that wont leave marks on the gym floor) :mad:

    €300? Not bad for a years worth of education. And what exactly is wrong with Penneys? So lets say you spend another €300 on clothing anyway because you don't want to buy something that might be considered cheap. The clothes can last at least 2 years. Leaving a grand total of €450 for a years worth of education. Pretty cheap by any account.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    The clothes can last at least 2 years.
    When they come up with a way to stop children from growing, sure.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    dvpower wrote: »
    When they come up with a way to stop children from growing, sure.

    Are you perhaps feeding your child growth hormones? If your childs school jumper doesn't last longer than a year then there's a problem somewhere.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Give incentives for neutering..
    Plenty of them on this thread.
    parents can afford to go out drinking and go out foreign on their holidays but then they get money of the vincent the paul to put their children through school. What a Joke
    Who are these parents going out drinking and going "out foreign" on their holidays yet in receipt of SDVP, of whom you speak?

    19-year-olds from comfortable homes who haven't the faintest clue about life dispensing their "wisdom" again - thankfully nobody's gonna take anything on AH seriously.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    The clothes can last at least 2 years.

    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    If your childs school jumper doesn't last longer than a year then there's a problem somewhere.

    Top of the class for back peddling.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 329 ✭✭Magic Beans


    I'm not expecting any pension other than the one i'm voluntarily paying into now.
    Good for you. Who is you pension fund managed by and what is it based on? Who do you think has been losing all those billions and where do you think it was invested?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭whiteandlight


    Not to be smart but I had the same school pinafore for 4.5 years of secondary school. When I was in first year everyone would be kitted out in a uniform several sizes to big so it would last them for years. Your mum would usually turn up the skirt leaving a couple of inches to let it down. I'm only 7 years out of school so its not that long ago but I haven't seen that kind of thing in years now!
    I did go through three school cardigans because the elbows would wear out but thats still not bad for six years. Only thing that was bought on a yearly basis was three white shirts and they were always out of dunnes.
    If my parents had had me in normal clothes to school they would never have lasted that long or been as cheap as a uniform.

    PS you do not need expensive runners to avoid scuffing the floor. You just have to make sure that the soles are white rubber and not mixed colours of rubber


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    dvpower wrote: »
    Top of the class for back peddling.

    Back pedaling? Are you suggesting longer that a year and 2 years are not the same in schools? Because I think they're pretty ****ing similar.

    And as for the jumper, take your pick. Trousers, tie, shoes, shirt. Point is still the same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    have parents never heard of hand-downs from one child to the next?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    Dudess wrote: »
    Who are these parents going out drinking and going "out foreign" on their holidays yet in receipt of SDVP, of whom you speak?

    I absolutely believe there are people like this - we forked out €330 for books for my OH`s daughter 2 months ago and her mum has a fab social life and away for holidays (which we can`t afford!) for 2 weeks. She was cryin about the money and we of course picked up the tab - not our fault she keeps reproducing, she has more kids we don`t because we can`t bloody afford them!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭galwaygirl2


    Tayla wrote: »
    The thing with SVP is that although they do do a lot of good work, they also give a lot of money out which they shouldn't. I think they are a great organisation however but I think they could probably be a bit stricter with the money they give out.
    .

    In the last few months I have gone to SVP twice for help and didnt get it either time so dont agree with that statement. I genuinely need help and never asked before so dont understandit.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭galwaygirl2


    Tayla wrote: »
    The thing with SVP is that although they do do a lot of good work, they also give a lot of money out which they shouldn't. I think they are a great organisation however but I think they could probably be a bit stricter with the money they give out.
    .

    In the last few months I have gone to SVP twice for help and didnt get it either time so dont agree with that statement. I genuinely need help and never asked before so dont understand it.


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