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Does it take any skill to be a "DJ"?

13567

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,598 ✭✭✭positron


    Sure, they are full of talent, like this guy:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Standman wrote: »
    What about this for an opinion:

    Writing Deadmau tunes takes no ****ing skill either.

    Music by numbers in whichever style is the most commercially viable at the time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    What about this one - Deadmau5 is a knobend who long ago sold his soul for an admittedly large amount of money.

    Doesn't make him wrong though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,461 ✭✭✭--Kaiser--


    It's not all decks these days


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    --Kaiser-- wrote: »
    It's not all decks these days

    Anyone who does anything that results in that kind of music should be lined up and shot in the face with their own frozen poo.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭gazzer


    Back in the late 90's early 00's I used to love mixing songs on my technics decks. I was only ever a bedroom dj. Never had the skills required to do it professionally.

    Nowadays (a lot of my mates are hitting 40 this year) I have been doing the music for my mates birthday parties (in a few pubs and at houses). Im only using Virtual DJ but is great fun finding really obscure songs from our youth and attempting to mix them in to some 80's classics. The last 40th I did I was playing music from 8pm until 5am. I was wrecked :D Great fun though as I had music ranging from motown right up to Eurovision classics.

    For the next 5 weeks I am going to be recording various mixes and doing the music for my own 40th.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    strobe wrote: »
    Doesn't make him wrong though.
    Deadmau5 is reasonably talented guy who in years gone past made, in my opinion, some pretty decent progressive tracks.

    Due to the pretty decent nature of these tracks, the fact he was outspoken, and perhaps above all else, his eye-catching mouse helmet, he gained some level of fame.

    He was then presented with the choice between pandering to the masses and gaining almost-guaranteed fame or continuing to produce fairly decent tracks with the prospect of fame being somewhat lower. He chose the former option and now cobbles together bad electro house on Ablteon to the adulation of 16-year-olds on yokes for their first time.

    If his sole aim was to achieve fame and wealth then I can't really fault him. But he has sacrificed his musical integrity and his opinions on musical matters means **** to me.

    Having said that, I'm not sure if he was categorically smearing all DJs, or the ten-a-penny kind who download Beatport's top 20 and auto-beatmatch them on Apple Macs. If he's referring to the latter I have no quarrel with him in this instance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Standman wrote: »
    What about this for an opinion:

    Sums it up, TBH. Who said it?

    Edit; ok - just read it's some called Deadmaux5, or whatever. Don't know who he is, but he's right in his summary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    Sums it up, TBH. Who said it?

    Edit; ok - just read it's some called Deadmaux5, or whatever. Don't know who he is, but he's right in his summary.

    He is way off on one point, that his number one customers are DJ's.

    His number one customers are teenagers and the like. There are not enough DJ's to be the number one purchasing demographic for any artist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭wandatowell


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    sure isn't jazz just random noise,

    Jazz aint even music, its a bloody train wreck :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    Jazz aint even music, its a bloody train wreck :D

    Bob Dylan: "Don't criticise what you can't understand."

    Emphasis in bold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭leggo


    I was having a chat with a mate, who also DJs, the other day about how everyone thinks they're a DJ until they actually try it in front of people. He was saying how, whenever he looks after music for his friends they're constantly shouting at him to play this and that. I told him that when my friends used to do that to me, I'd happily hand them the music themselves, and watch as within 3-4 songs they pass it back to me meekly...having royally pissed everyone else off.

    I also do a lot of radio stuff. And radio is a similar beast. Anyone who's not involved thinks "Sure those lads have it handy. Get paid thousands, only work 2-3 hours a day and then just talk and play a buncha songs. Anyone can do that!"

    You can see why, at face value there doesn't appear to be much skill to talking or playing someone else's song. If it's popular in the charts then most people will like it...job done!

    I agree with you OP, anyone can be a DJ. Sure I'm convinced I'd make a great engineer. All I'd have to do is go to college for a few years, pass my exams, then just find a job, engineer...some stuff...and count my cash. Easy!

    The problem is that the bits in between aren't exactly as easy.

    See first, I need something to actually DJ with. There's free stuff out there and it's not too shabby...for learning...but you'll be found out if you're charging any kind of decent rates and thus people are expecting value for money. So you've got to first love music enough to drop a few grand on gear. In my case, twice in my life I've had enough money to buy a car. Both times I needed new DJ-ing gear. Guess which one I picked? But sure Dublin Buses don't smell as much of piss these days, I've plenty of willing drivers for gigs and walking is good for the heart and mind. Oh yeah, if you haven't figured yet, DJ-ing costs. A lot. My last upgrade was close to three grand. That's just on actual mixing equipment, never mind PAs, speakers etc.

    Then I need music. Music of all different genres to be able to suit any occassion (since a gig can, and does, come at any time. I'm settling in for a night-in right now, but technically if the phone rings I could be starting a 4-hour set two hours from now). So much music I can accomodate almost any random request. You might say "But sure with the net and broadband speeds you can download 5,000 songs in the next 24 hours." But I don't have the cash to pay for that. "But you can illegally download?" But my music needs to be of a certain quality to be able to play during a gig (ideally WAV or 320kb/s mp3) and that generally costs. And I need to be able to play up-to-date stuff, too, so that means scouring everywhere for copies of the latest releases and integrating them into my collection. If possible, even making some contacts that will send me tracks before they're released. But they don't just send this stuff onto anyone or artists would go bankrupt. Which brings me up to my next point...

    Then I need to be able to combine my music and gear to...be good! If I ruin my mate's 21st on my first gig, after all, the phone won't be ringing non-stop for me to work again. So I've got to practise my arse off. I've got to learn how to beat-match and mix songs. I've got to learn where each song fits within a set and how to build it to give an all-encompassing night (where people are going mental dancing, have their arms around each other singing merrily, laugh, scream cus it's their favourite song etc). Believe it or not, if I play one song that 'everyone loves' at the wrong time and mix it poorly, not everyone will love it. Part of enjoying music is the perspective given to each song, e.g. songs that remind you of a moment or time, so give it a poor perspective and people will HATE you for it. And there's MILLIONS of DJs out there these days, more than ever, so to actually be considered for gigs ahead of them by people I need to have something which makes them want to book me ahead of their mate who did Mary's party last year and, would ya believe it, had EVERYONE up doing a Cha-Cha-Slide! Legend! Getting good also means having to politely decline the text to come out for pints on numerous occasions, while you sit at home for hours on your own obsessed with trying something 'real quick' that nobody will likely ever even hear. My old flatmate used to laugh how I'd pause a conversation mid-sentence, say I'd be back in 5 minutes, then emerge from my room 3 hours later saying "Nah, didn't work. Ah well, you were saying?" It takes that kind of passion and commitment to improve and develop enough to just stay competitive with what else is out there these days.

    Then I need to be able to GET gigs. After all, if I drop 5-6 grand on gear I don't want to see it gather dust after taking it out to play once. DJ-ing gear is for life, not just for Christmas! So I need to be able to make contacts, to figure out a way to convince people to use ME, to use one gig and turn it into many (I'm still getting party bookings off people I gigged in front of 3 years ago), to break into a cliquish club scene that doesn't have any vacancies in 2011, all the while standing out from the 50 other DJs who'll send clubs their Soundcloud links that week.

    And so on.

    So no, it doesn't take any individual skill to be a DJ. It takes many skills.

    I see it like a job: in any job or career field, you'll have people who are naturally brilliant and rise straight to the top; people who have potential, work hard and graft out a career; people who aren't great but work hard and 'get by'; people who are terrible, get sacked and find a new career; people who are terrible, but go for pints with the boss, and end up doing well for themselves in spite of it all; people who work hard, have ability but never go anywhere for some reason or another; people who just do the bare minimum to stay in the job, but never go any further than that and are perfectly content with that arrangement. Etc etc etc.

    To say that it takes no skill, though, is like me claiming that anyone can be an engineer. Anyone can, in theory, but it doesn't mean that you can just step up to a pair of decks and get a place kicking in minutes. If you don't believe me, come to a gig of mine sometime and I'll give you a go! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    leggo wrote: »
    To say that it takes no skill, though, is like me claiming that anyone can be an engineer.

    It's nothing like that - being an engineer takes years of training & a formal qualification & aptitude.
    Being a DJ takes a set of decks (which only takes money to obtain), lots of records/CDs (which only takes money to obtain), and a week to learn how to beatmatch.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Now firstly - I'm not referring to proper DJs who can scratch & mix

    You lost me on that sentence alone....you have a predefined view of what a "proper" DJ should be, and that includes the ones who absolutely ruin decent tracks by scratching and the like.

    Reading the floor IS a skill. Try going to a night where the DJ hasn't a clue and you'll see the difference; other so-called DJs play what THEY want to hear, rather than what the crowd wants. There's also reading a crowd to see when they're likely to head for a fag or a drink or a piss, and therefore reading whoever is still sitting down / standing to see how you could work them in to keep the floor full when the current crowd up go for a breather.

    There's also knowing your tracks well enough that you know what will go together and keep a night going.

    There's certainly a skill involved; it's not rocket science, but it's far more than you're dismissively suggesting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭leggo


    It's nothing like that - being an engineer takes years of training & a formal qualification & aptitude.
    Being a DJ takes a set of decks (which only takes money to obtain), lots of records/CDs (which only takes money to obtain), and a week to learn how to beatmatch.

    I see. Well consider me put in my place. You clearly know your stuff. I bow to your superior knowledge of DJ-ing and the music industry.

    Btw what's your favourite track by...what's his name again...
    Deadmaux5

    ...that's the one! Out of interest?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    leggo wrote: »
    I was having a chat with a mate, who also DJs, the other day about how everyone thinks they're a DJ until they actually try it in front of people. He was saying how, whenever he looks after music for his friends they're constantly shouting at him to play this and that. I told him that when my friends used to do that to me, I'd happily hand them the music themselves, and watch as within 3-4 songs they pass it back to me meekly...having royally pissed everyone else off.

    I also do a lot of radio stuff. And radio is a similar beast. Anyone who's not involved thinks "Sure those lads have it handy. Get paid thousands, only work 2-3 hours a day and then just talk and play a buncha songs. Anyone can do that!"

    You can see why, at face value there doesn't appear to be much skill to talking or playing someone else's song. If it's popular in the charts then most people will like it...job done!

    I agree with you OP, anyone can be a DJ. Sure I'm convinced I'd make a great engineer. All I'd have to do is go to college for a few years, pass my exams, then just find a job, engineer...some stuff...and count my cash. Easy!

    The problem is that the bits in between aren't exactly as easy.

    See first, I need something to actually DJ with. There's free stuff out there and it's not too shabby...for learning...but you'll be found out if you're charging any kind of decent rates and thus people are expecting value for money. So you've got to first love music enough to drop a few grand on gear. In my case, twice in my life I've had enough money to buy a car. Both times I needed new DJ-ing gear. Guess which one I picked? But sure Dublin Buses don't smell as much of piss these days, I've plenty of willing drivers for gigs and walking is good for the heart and mind. Oh yeah, if you haven't figured yet, DJ-ing costs. A lot. My last upgrade was close to three grand. That's just on actual mixing equipment, never mind PAs, speakers etc.

    Then I need music. Music of all different genres to be able to suit any occassion (since a gig can, and does, come at any time. I'm settling in for a night-in right now, but technically if the phone rings I could be starting a 4-hour set two hours from now). So much music I can accomodate almost any random request. You might say "But sure with the net and broadband speeds you can download 5,000 songs in the next 24 hours." But I don't have the cash to pay for that. "But you can illegally download?" But my music needs to be of a certain quality to be able to play during a gig (ideally WAV or 320kb/s mp3) and that generally costs. And I need to be able to play up-to-date stuff, too, so that means scouring everywhere for copies of the latest releases and integrating them into my collection. If possible, even making some contacts that will send me tracks before they're released. But they don't just send this stuff onto anyone or artists would go bankrupt. Which brings me up to my next point...

    Then I need to be able to combine my music and gear to...be good! If I ruin my mate's 21st on my first gig, after all, the phone won't be ringing non-stop for me to work again. So I've got to practise my arse off. I've got to learn how to beat-match and mix songs. I've got to learn where each song fits within a set and how to build it to give an all-encompassing night (where people are going mental dancing, have their arms around each other singing merrily, laugh, scream cus it's their favourite song etc). Believe it or not, if I play one song that 'everyone loves' at the wrong time and mix it poorly, not everyone will love it. Part of enjoying music is the perspective given to each song, e.g. songs that remind you of a moment or time, so give it a poor perspective and people will HATE you for it. And there's MILLIONS of DJs out there these days, more than ever, so to actually be considered for gigs ahead of them by people I need to have something which makes them want to book me ahead of their mate who did Mary's party last year and, would ya believe it, had EVERYONE up doing a Cha-Cha-Slide! Legend! Getting good also means having to politely decline the text to come out for pints on numerous occasions, while you sit at home for hours on your own obsessed with trying something 'real quick' that nobody will likely ever even hear. My old flatmate used to laugh how I'd pause a conversation mid-sentence, say I'd be back in 5 minutes, then emerge from my room 3 hours later saying "Nah, didn't work. Ah well, you were saying?" It takes that kind of passion and commitment to improve and develop enough to just stay competitive with what else is out there these days.

    Then I need to be able to GET gigs. After all, if I drop 5-6 grand on gear I don't want to see it gather dust after taking it out to play once. DJ-ing gear is for life, not just for Christmas! So I need to be able to make contacts, to figure out a way to convince people to use ME, to use one gig and turn it into many (I'm still getting party bookings off people I gigged in front of 3 years ago), to break into a cliquish club scene that doesn't have any vacancies in 2011, all the while standing out from the 50 other DJs who'll send clubs their Soundcloud links that week.

    And so on.

    So no, it doesn't take any individual skill to be a DJ. It takes many skills.

    I see it like a job: in any job or career field, you'll have people who are naturally brilliant and rise straight to the top; people who have potential, work hard and graft out a career; people who aren't great but work hard and 'get by'; people who are terrible, get sacked and find a new career; people who are terrible, but go for pints with the boss, and end up doing well for themselves in spite of it all; people who work hard, have ability but never go anywhere for some reason or another; people who just do the bare minimum to stay in the job, but never go any further than that and are perfectly content with that arrangement. Etc etc etc.

    To say that it takes no skill, though, is like me claiming that anyone can be an engineer. Anyone can, in theory, but it doesn't mean that you can just step up to a pair of decks and get a place kicking in minutes. If you don't believe me, come to a gig of mine sometime and I'll give you a go! :)

    You make this sound like it requires some rarefied level of technical ability or creativity. DJ's play other peoples music, they are to musicians and composers what a painter-decorator is to an actual artist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    leggo wrote: »
    I see. Well consider me put in my place. You clearly know your stuff. I bow to your superior knowledge of DJ-ing and the music industry.

    Btw what's your favourite track by...what's his name again...
    Deadmaux5

    ...that's the one! Out of interest?

    Never heard of him - read back over my posts - I never claimed to.
    Don't know who he is


    http://soundcloud.com/raginrick/pre-drinks-with-rick-nash-1
    Wow - I love your tunes there - who's the vocalist? Oh no wait - they're all someone else's songs - you just put a naff beat behind them & blended them together - amazing skillz! Must have taken ages to put one track after another... Years of training - like a doctor or something.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,152 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Bambi wrote: »
    You make this sound like it requires some rarefied level of technical ability or creativity. DJ's play other peoples music, they are to musicians and composers what a painter-decorator is to an actual artist.

    Yep, and yet loads of people who think they can paint/decorate properly still hire in professionals when they make a balls of if themselves.

    Otherwise there wouldn't be any painter/decorators in the Golden Pages.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭LighterGuy


    Out of curiousity how much does it cost to get a dj for a birthday party say?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭leggo


    Bambi wrote: »
    You make this sound like it requires some rarefied level of technical ability or creativity. DJ's play other peoples music, they are to musicians and composers what a painter-decorator is to an actual artist.

    I never said anything of the sort? :confused:

    It takes hard work and dedication and a skillset. Nothing rare there...it's the same as any other profession (which is why I juxtaposed DJ-ing with engineering).

    And 'actual artists' rely on DJs to act as mediums in spreading their music to the masses. Again...:confused:

    Deadmau5 can slate DJs (while calling them necessary) all he wants, he'd be just another kid with a dream in his bedroom if radio and club DJs didn't play his early stuff.

    Pub bands hate DJs though (because they take their gigs, and vice versa). I'll give you that much.
    Never heard of him - read back over my posts - I never claimed to.

    Exactly. And yet you're telling (predominantly dance) DJs what it takes to do their job without having heard of one of the world's most well-known dance artists. So can we write you off as a troll and be done with this?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭leggo


    http://soundcloud.com/raginrick/pre-drinks-with-rick-nash-1
    Wow - I love your tunes there - who's the vocalist? Oh no wait - they're all someone else's songs - you just put a naff beat behind them & blended them together - amazing skillz! Must have taken ages to put one track after another... Years of training - like a doctor or something.

    Of all the things I've had said against my Soundclouds in the past, that is by far the weakest. At least call me soulless for liking LMFAO or something. Fail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    leggo wrote: »
    And yet you're telling (predominantly dance) DJs what it takes to do their job

    Yeah - it takes money & a few weeks in your bedroom learning where the knobs are.
    You're not creating music - you're playing other peoples. The people who created it are the ones with the skill - you just bought their music and gheyed it up with some cheap electronic samples. Everyone can & does do this - you're a dime a dozen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    I like techno, without DJ's i would have no techno to listen too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭leggo


    You're not creating music - you're playing other peoples.

    In fairness, that's me told. I should really stop putting "I MADE AND SANG ALL OF THIS!!!" in my track listings...

    Wait a minute...I knew I remembered your name! Hang on a second:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73659224&postcount=299

    You really need to get a new hobby. You're not very good at this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,668 ✭✭✭nlgbbbblth


    chin_grin wrote: »
    Jays bay you still talking about those big black plastic yokes. 'tis all cd's and mp3's nowadays.

    And no it takes absolutely no skill to mix them when you can download freeware to match songs together by their bpm.

    I only use vinyl when DJing. Occasionally use CDs (in addition to records) if it's a wedding or party. MP3s - NEVER.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Yeah - it takes money & a few weeks in your bedroom learning where the knobs are.
    This is like saying all guitarists are hacks because anyone can learn a few chords in the space of a week.
    You're not creating music - you're playing other peoples. The people who created it are the ones with the skill - you just bought their music and gheyed it up with some cheap electronic samples.
    Again, I have to ask if you think the myriad of competent producers who also DJ would hold it in such contempt as you obviously do?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    leggo wrote: »
    I see. Well consider me put in my place. You clearly know your stuff.
    leggo wrote: »
    In fairness, that's me told.
    leggo wrote: »
    Of all the things I've had said against my Soundclouds in the past, that is by far the weakest.


    How come you don't actually have a specific rebuttal for any of my points - you just keep replying as if you "got me" by just being sarcastic. Has basic sarcasm replaced actual points?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Lets not forget Dylan Morans meditation on the DJ as a creative artist :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭leggo


    How come you don't actually have a specific rebuttal for any of my points - you just keep replying as if you "got me" by just being sarcastic. Has basic sarcasm replaced actual points?

    I wasn't being sarcastic in the slightest when I said it was the weakest argument I've heard.

    And that, coupled with you outing yourself as a troll, is why I'm refusing to take you seriously and give you a more dignified response than I already have. :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Forest Master


    leggo wrote: »
    I wasn't being sarcastic in the slightest when I said it was the weakest argument I've heard.

    And that, coupled with you outing yourself as a troll, is why I'm refusing to take you seriously and give you a more dignified response than I already have. :)

    I'm not really a troll - I was being sarcastic. Here's a hint: you reffed one of my matches...


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