Is my neighbour allowed to shout at my kids?

cork_buoy · 09-08-2011 11:32PM #1

My kids were out playing with their friends today. My neighbours child got upset because he couldn't play with a toy gun because someone else had it. He ran into his house crying. What do you expect from a few kids playing with toys.

On hearing the crying the boys father ran out and confronted my eldest son, 9 years old, who was close by but who had nothing at all to do with the reason for his son's upset. He screamed at my son "what did you do? tell me f**k happened!!!!" and went on "tell me the truth!!!". He was squared up to him fully.

Our son was terrified and my partner who was outside cutting the grass saw this happening. She walked over to confront the neighbour and demanded that he stop shouting at our son. He was quite agressive and replied to my partner "he wont tell me, he wont tell me what happened". Our son couldn't tell him anything because he never gave him the chance. The neighbour eventually stopped shouting and walked away. My son ran in home and was terrified to go back outside.

I got a call at work, my partner shaking on the phone telling me what had gone on. I was furious but at the same time I was trying to focus on staying calm and thinking about the best resolution - as stress free for our family. I hate confrontation but there's a line you don't cross and I think something needs to be done. I spoke to my son from work and reassured him that I would talk to the neighbour and sort it out - and that he did nothing wrong and had nothing to worry about. He went back out to play with his friends.

I would like my neighbour to apologise to my son to put his mind at ease. He has asbergers and has some confidence issues around other kids. This incident has shook him. He seems uncomfortable out the front. I think if he sees that the neighbour was wrong and is sorry for his behaviour it would help a lot.

If this course of action fails I was wondering what I should do next. I've thought about making a complaint at the garda station just to record the incident in case of future incidence.

Thanks in advance for your help.

P.S. I hope this is the correct forum for this post.

audi a4 2008 · 09-08-2011 11:40PM

hey there,that is just dreadfull what he done to ure son just disgusting and that man is a bully,if i was u i would go in and demand that he say sorry to ure son also i would report this to gardai and then its on file.also u need to take ure son out playing in the green 2morrow and show him theres no need to b afraid and get him to try and forget it .take care i hope it works out for ure family.

jetsonx · 09-08-2011 11:49PM

cork_buoy wrote: »

I've thought about making a complaint at the garda station just to record the incident in case of future incidence.

OP, you sound like the local neighborhood busy body, who overreacts to
even the most mundane of events. Contemplating calling the Gardai to make a complaint about a verbal rebuke which your neighbor gave to your son is beyond ludicrous. Your life needs a severe wake-up call to reality if this sort of frivolity worries you.

PS: Molly-coddling does not equate with good parenting.

idiot.

Zambia · 09-08-2011 11:50PM

I don't see this as a police matter. No crime has been commited really.

You are just going to have to talk to your neighbour.

I reckon this is more for the parenting forum. Crap scenario best of luck.

Bloody Nipples · 09-08-2011 11:57PM

jetsonx wrote: »

OP, you sound like the local neighborhood busy body, who overreacts to
even the most mundane of events. Contemplating calling the Gardai to make a complaint about a verbal rebuke which your neighbor gave to your son is beyond ludicrous. Your life needs a severe wake-up call to reality if this sort of frivolity worries you.

PS: Molly-coddling does not equate with good parenting.

idiot.

Are you for real?

To the OP, I don't think there's any laws to cover raising your voice and being angry so while losing the plot at a kid with Asperger's places yer man firmly in ásshole territory, it's not something the guards could get involved in unless he was being threatening. A quiet word in his ear is really your only bet.

cork_buoy · 09-08-2011 11:58PM

jetsonx wrote: »

OP, you sound like the local neighborhood busy body, who overreacts to
even the most mundane of events. Contemplating calling the Gardai to make a complaint about a verbal rebuke which your neighbor gave to your son is beyond ludicrous. Your life needs a severe wake-up call to reality if this sort of frivolity worries you.

PS: Molly-coddling does not equate with good parenting.

idiot.

You're entitled to your opinion as much as the next guy so here's my thoughts on your comments. He's 9 years old and did nothing at all wrong. I feel that the neighbours reaction was excessive. Teaching our kids what is acceptable behaviour vs what is not is very much a large part of parenting. See London Riots. Allowing my son to believe that this neighbours behaviour is in any way acceptable would be bad parenting.

I'm was contemplating recording the incident. I have no intention to pursue the matter any further.

cork_buoy · 09-08-2011 11:59PM

Zambia wrote: »

I don't see this as a police matter. No crime has been commited really.

You are just going to have to talk to your neighbour.

I reckon this is more for the parenting forum. Crap scenario best of luck.

Thanks for feedback.

I didn't spot the parenting forum. Mod?

noodler · 10-08-2011 12:04AM

jetsonx wrote: »

OP, you sound like the local neighborhood busy body, who overreacts to
even the most mundane of events. Contemplating calling the Gardai to make a complaint about a verbal rebuke which your neighbor gave to your son is beyond ludicrous. Your life needs a severe wake-up call to reality if this sort of frivolity worries you.

PS: Molly-coddling does not equate with good parenting.

idiot.

Idiot? Are you for real?

I have no kids OP, but I do have a little brother. Bit of a hellraiser even when he was 9 but if an elderly man on our road squared up to him over something this ridiculous I'd have had serious words with him.

I agree a Gardai call is OTT but words need to be had with the neighbour IMO.

cork_buoy · 10-08-2011 12:04AM

Bloody Nipples wrote: »

Are you for real?

To the OP, I don't think there's any laws to cover raising your voice and being angry so while losing the plot at a kid with Asperger's places yer man firmly in ásshole territory, it's not something the guards could get involved in unless he was being threatening. A quiet word in his ear is really your only bet.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking the same. I never had a run in with my neighbours before. We're only living here two years.

cork_buoy · 10-08-2011 12:07AM

noodler wrote: »

Idiot? Are you for real?

I have no kids OP, but I do have a little brother. Bit of a hellraiser even when he was 9 but if an elderly man on our road squared up to him over something this ridiculous I'd have had serious words with him.

I agree a Gardai call is OTT but words need to be had with the neighbour IMO.

Thank you for the feedback. Ideally he'll apologies about loosing the head and we'll move on - case closed.

jetsonx · 10-08-2011 12:13AM

cork_buoy wrote: »

I'm was contemplating recording the incident. I have no intention to pursue the matter any further.

Before you made your edit cork_buoy you wanted to record the incident.
Now all of a sudden (after the edit), you're "contemplating" recording the incident. Make up your mind.

Either way, maybe you just don't have enough life experience or cop-on to realise that harsh rebukes from neighbors to their neighbors kids happen across the land everyday and probably in every country in the world.

I can understand if you are annoyed. I would be annoyed. But, if you really wanted to teach your kid a lesson why not approach your neighbor, like a man, and have a few quite words with him, instead of wasting police time.

newmug · 10-08-2011 12:16AM

jetsonx wrote: »

OP, you sound like the local neighborhood busy body, who overreacts to
even the most mundane of events. Contemplating calling the Gardai to make a complaint about a verbal rebuke which your neighbor gave to your son is beyond ludicrous. Your life needs a severe wake-up call to reality if this sort of frivolity worries you.

PS: Molly-coddling does not equate with good parenting.

idiot.

Bloody hell! The OP wasnt even there, how can you call him the neighbourhood busybody and an idiot? How would you like it if it was your child? Do you seriously believe that the OP is an idiot over a grown man who verbally abuses minors?

OP, in a best case scenario, you could do this tosspot for tresspassing, public disorder, threatening and abusive behaviour, and abuse of a minor. In reality though, that would be an expensive, messy, drawn-out process which would not culminate in anything only a scarred childhood for your kid.

The way I would approach this is A) DO report it to the Guards,

Talk to the tosspot neighbour in a firm, but friendly way, asking what happened. Bring a witness. Retired Guards are good for that sort of thing. C) If he's uncooperative or being a thug, (and lets face it, thats what he was acting like), educate him on the errors of his ways;)

@Jetsonx, I still cant believe your attitude. Are you in london on holidays at the moment by any chance?

cork_buoy · 10-08-2011 12:19AM

jetsonx wrote: »

Before you made your edit cork_buoy you wanted to record the incident.
Now all of a sudden (after the edit), you're "contemplating" recording the incident. Make up your mind.

See the OP "I've thought about making a complaint" = contemplating - well before you posted. Subsequent editing to a reply was purely for clarification.

jetsonx wrote: »

Either way, maybe you just don't have enough life experience or cop-on to realise that harsh rebukes from neighbors to their neighbors kids happen across the land everyday and probably in every country in the world.

That I understand - but it does not make it right.

jetsonx wrote: »

I can understand if you are annoyed. I would be annoyed. But, if you really wanted to teach your kid a lesson why not approach your neighbor, like a man, and have a few quite words with him, instead of wasting police time.

Read the OP. I'm going to ask him to apologise to my son. Thanks for your feedback.

rebel without a clue · 10-08-2011 12:22AM

for an adult to actually confront a child in that manner must be terrifying, for the child. i would make sure your child is telling you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. then go and talk to neighbour and say look he's no angel blah blah but he didnt deserve that type of confrontation from an adult. stay calm and invite neighbours child out to play with the rest of them tomorrow, just so he's not singled out.
you know that kind of **** can come back to haunt a child years later or stay with them and cause them to be nervous around adults. the fact that he has asbergers(?) does not help either.

rebel without a clue · 10-08-2011 12:29AM

[QUOTE=jetsonx;73733555

Either way, maybe you just don't have enough life experience or cop-on to realise that harsh rebukes from neighbors to their neighbors kids happen across the land everyday and probably in every country in the world.
[/QUOTE]

jesus the neighbour squared up to a kid! industrial schools in the 1940s/50s comes to mind.

milehip1 · 10-08-2011 12:30AM

jetsonx wrote: »

OP, you sound like the local neighborhood busy body, who overreacts to
even the most mundane of events. Contemplating calling the Gardai to make a complaint about a verbal rebuke which your neighbor gave to your son is beyond ludicrous. Your life needs a severe wake-up call to reality if this sort of frivolity worries you.

PS: Molly-coddling does not equate with good parenting.

idiot.

wow just wow
it's to do with the op's son how does that make them a ''busy body''?

It involved a toy gun, it was the neighbour who overreacted and is molly coddling his children,any ''idiot'' could tell that,
shouting and cursing at a child is neither a verbal rebuke or frivolious

I hope you don't have any children or neighbours who have children.

You're clearly a Troll, how your first post got 3 thanks is beyond me

OP should report you for needless ''idiot'' insult aswell

ResearchWill · 10-08-2011 12:32AM

I am amazed at the reaction of some people on here to this. But first I would think a chat with the neighbour to get to the bottom of the issue, then a nice but firm statement if your neighbour has any issue with your child he is to chat to you and you will deal with it.

Now on the reactions, IMHO what was described could if the facts are correct be a section 2 assault, under s 2 (1) (b). Of course it would depend did the child think he was about to be assaulted, I am basing this on the statement that the adult squared up to the child It also amazes me with recent events that an adult screaming at a 9 year old child is considered ok, but god help us if someone wants to talk about the age of consent in relation to 15 and 16 year olds. Any adult screaming at any other person in public beyond the pale. Could also be an offence under section 6 public order act.

Non Fatal offences against the person act 1997
2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—

(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and

(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.

(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £1,500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both.

Criminal Justice Public Order Act 2004
6.—(1) It shall be an offence for any person in a public place to use or engage in any threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with intent to provoke a breach of the peace or being reckless as to whether a breach of the peace may be occasioned.

(2) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to both.

jetsonx · 10-08-2011 12:33AM

newmug wrote: »

The way I would approach this is A) DO report it to the Guards, Talk to the tosspot neighbour in a firm, but friendly way, asking what happened. Bring a witness. Retired Guards are good for that sort of thing. C) If he's uncooperative or being a thug, (and lets face it, thats what he was acting like), educate him on the errors of his ways;)

Solution A = Sours relations with neighbors. Other neighbors will think
something else happen if Guards get involved. Child develops complex about
neighbours whom he thinks only shout at him. FAIL

rebel without a clue wrote:

i would make sure your child is telling you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. then go and talk to neighbour and say look he's no angel blah blah but he didnt deserve that type of confrontation from an adult. stay calm and invite neighbours child out to play with the rest of them tomorrow, just so he's not singled out.

Solution B = A rational measured common sense approach. PASS

cork_buoy · 10-08-2011 12:35AM

jetsonx wrote: »

measured common sense approach.

Like your replies is it?

audi a4 2008 · 10-08-2011 12:41AM

jetsonx wrote: »

Solution A = Sours relations with neighbors. Other neighbors will think
something else happen if Guards get involved. Child develops complex about
neighbours whom he thinks only shout at him. FAIL

Solution B = A rational measured common sense approach. PASS

youre repleys JETSONX are just sad and cleary ure mind is in frezze mode have a nap for ureself and when u wake up press the reset button u might and i stress might come back to the real world

bohsboy · 10-08-2011 12:42AM

Just have a word with him non-aggressively. I wouldn't ask him to apologise to the child, just try and just forget about it if he acknowledges he was out of order. I can guarantee he won't say a word to your kid again.

If he chooses the hard man approach you then know what you are dealing with and can act accordingly.

You are NOT over reacting, they are your kids and your job is to protect them from such fools.....

newmug · 10-08-2011 12:42AM

jetsonx wrote: »

Solution A = Sours relations with neighbors.

Solution A = Report it to the Guards. Dont call 999 and ask for a sqoud car to be sent around! Just make a discreet statement the next chance you get to make sure its down on paper. No need for any further action. If the neighbour turns out to be a nutjob who uses violence, at least he will get noticed quicker, and you may be glad someday when that report rings bells before he attacks someone YOU love.

Nobody else has to know that the OP reported it, ESPECIALLY not the neighbour or OP's child.

jetsonx wrote: »

Other neighbors will think
something else happen if Guards get involved.

Other neighbours wont give a sh1t. Who's the busybody neighbour now?

Final Approach · 10-08-2011 01:20AM

I agree with all the other posters here that have suggested you go and knock on his door and have a quiet word with him first. I also agree that you are certainly not over-reacting, and I can say that I would feel exactly the same as you have described.

It might be worth bearing in mind that although your neighbors reaction was completely inappropriate, and the conclusion he drew was entirely inaccurate, he was, in his own mind, doing exactly what you are about to do, that is to take action in defense of his son. I would suggest therefore that you draw on that initially, so that he doesn't feel attacked, otherwise he may just go shouting his head off again. You can then proceed to tell him how wronged your son feels, and how you will not accept a reoccurrence of this type of behavior again. Depending on how he takes this, you could then consider asking him to apologise to your son.

I am sure that if you deal with this man as diplomatically and level-headed as you have with the disrespectful and frankly ridiculous replies that you've received here from Jetsonx, you will do just fine, and hopefully your neighbor will see how wrong he was to shout at your son like he did.

Be sure to let us know how it went.

irishdude11 · 10-08-2011 10:47AM

newmug wrote: »

Solution A = Report it to the Guards. Dont call 999 and ask for a sqoud car to be sent around! Just make a discreet statement the next chance you get to make sure its down on paper. No need for any further action. If the neighbour turns out to be a nutjob who uses violence, at least he will get noticed quicker, and you may be glad someday when that report rings bells before he attacks someone YOU love.

Report what exactly? That the ops neighbour shouted at his son? Jesus christ, what is the world coming to. Do you honestly think the guards have the time to be dealing with this kind of nonsense. Somebody gave me a cross look the other day when I was driving, maybe I should go and report them to the guards too...:rolleyes:

cork_buoy · 10-08-2011 10:58AM

irishdude11 wrote: »

Report what exactly? That the ops neighbour shouted at his son?

Yes, and that type of behaviour towards a young boy from a grown man is entirely unacceptable.

irishdude11 wrote: »

Jesus christ, what is the world coming to. Do you honestly think the guards have the time to be dealing with this kind of nonsense.

Yes, it would take all of 10 mins to record the incident. It's purely a record to protect against future incidence and is entirely justifiable. It's also a last resort. If you followed the thread you'd see that. However, thanks for your feedback.

irishdude11 wrote: »

Somebody gave me a cross look the other day when I was driving, maybe I should go and report them to the guards too...:rolleyes:

A cross look is hardly comparable to a grown man getting within inches of a 9 year old and shouting expletives at him.

Manach · 10-08-2011 11:16AM

bohsboy wrote: »

Just have a word with him non-aggressively. I wouldn't ask him to apologise to the child, just try and just forget about it if he acknowledges he was out of order. I can guarantee he won't say a word to your kid again.

If he chooses the hard man approach you then know what you are dealing with and can act accordingly.

You are NOT over reacting, they are your kids and your job is to protect them from such fools.....

I'd agree with bohsboy on this. The OP also was right in that the neighbour out of line. If the situation were reversed and the boy was shouting at the neighbour, then the guards should only be brought in if a reasoned dialog fails.

reeta · 10-08-2011 11:32AM

jetsonx wrote: »

OP, you sound like the local neighborhood busy body, who overreacts to
even the most mundane of events. Contemplating calling the Gardai to make a complaint about a verbal rebuke which your neighbor gave to your son is beyond ludicrous. Your life needs a severe wake-up call to reality if this sort of frivolity worries you.

PS: Molly-coddling does not equate with good parenting.

idiot.

I am shocked by this response, they obviously know nothing about Aspergers and the effect this incident would have had on him. My nephew has Aspergers and this would destroy him if it happened to him,.

OP leave the guards out of this and talk to the neighbour calmly and ask
for an apology (if you can explain your boys condition). Thats all you can do (besides ignoring stupid replies here). Good luck !!

Zambia · 10-08-2011 12:20PM

cork_buoy wrote:

Yes, it would take all of 10 mins to record the incident. It's purely a record to protect against future incidence

How does that protect against future incidence?

MapForJ · 10-08-2011 12:30PM

A bit OT but :

What would have been the correct response from the neighbour who shouted? What if kids are breaking trees on a public green, I have seen people shout at them to stop

And i have told kids not to be climbing a fence, not shouted at them though.

cork_buoy · 10-08-2011 12:45PM

Zambia wrote: »

How does that protect against future incidence?

I'd be letting him know my intentions should I need to record the incident with the Gardai. He'd think twice about doing it again.

mcmoustache · 10-08-2011 12:49PM

audi a4 2008 wrote: »

hey there,that is just dreadfull what he done to ure son just disgusting and that man is a bully,if i was u i would go in and demand that he say sorry to ure son also i would report this to gardai and then its on file.also u need to take ure son out playing in the green 2morrow and show him theres no need to b afraid and get him to try and forget it .take care i hope it works out for ure family.

audi a4 2008 wrote: »

youre repleys JETSONX are just sad and cleary ure mind is in frezze mode have a nap for ureself and when u wake up press the reset button u might and i stress might come back to the real world

After spending some time deciphering this, I can conclude that your opinion is actually fairly sensible. Unfortunately, most people will just ignore what you post if it's full of text-speak and deliberately incorrect spelling. It hurts people's heads when they try to read it and it looks silly. If you are doing this deliberately, you should stop it if you want people to read your posts.

If you're dyslexic or foreign, then there is a spell-checker in mozilla firefox. It doesn't help with grammar but it will flag such words as "ure" and frezze which don't exist. Using it will make your posts readable at least.

Sorry for going OT and for being a grammar nazi but it's such a waste when a potentially valuable contribution to a thread is rendered worthless as a result of unnecessarily atrocious spelling.

Is my neighbour allowed to shout at my kids?

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