London Riots

Ouijaboard · 09-08-2011 04:43AM

Thing is at the moment, we are not exactly in a martial law/curfew type situation, and it is also quite clear that the met police are not able to properly control this...it's too widespread. How many chavs are there in london

? I'd hazard a guess at a few hundred thousand at least

This could get worse before it gets better yet!

Rubik. · 09-08-2011 04:44AM

evercloserunion wrote: »

Also, I've heard of incidents in Notting Hill and Oxford Circus, not exactly remote working class suburbs and in fact quite close to Hyde Park.

OK. Ignore what I just said, I just came across this... http://www.demotix.com/news/782744/oxford-circus-braced-riots-and-looting-london

Matt Holck · 09-08-2011 05:27AM

robbing and looting have selfish motivations
while arson reeps no booty has only violent intent

I heard the police backed off

Are the chavs in a gang war to control the sharks?

Silvio.Dante · 09-08-2011 08:27AM

Where's the tear gas, watercanon and rubber bullets? Or are they just used on the Irish...?

whoopdedoo · 09-08-2011 08:33AM

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Where's the tear gas, watercanon and rubber bullets? Or are they just used on the Irish...?

not sanctioned for use on mainland uk unless state of emergency is declared!! crippled with bureaucracy as their society id broken down in front of their eyes!

JustinDee · 09-08-2011 08:37AM

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Surprised there is no thread on this.

Met riddle someone with bullets in contentious circumstances, again, and London and now Birmingham have erupted. Yet again the Met have made a balls of it and the pissed off population have reacted in the only means left to them.

What has followed on from Saturday night has bugger all to do with anybody being killed by police.
Anyone who thinks it has is either kidding themselves or plain deluded.

Judgement Day · 09-08-2011 09:08AM

What's left of the British Army will have to be called out to restore order as the police seem to be losing control. Shoot a few looters like the National Guard do in similar circumstances in the USA and things will return to normal. I hope there are a serious amount of prosecutions and worthwhile sentences handed down to the 'organisers' of this attempted anarchy.

cavedave · 09-08-2011 09:11AM

JustinDee

Anyone who thinks it has is either kidding themselves or plain deluded.

Riots do tend to break out after perceived injustice at the hands of police. For example 1992 Los Angeles riots, the Stonewall riot, 2011 Egyptian revolution. How many examples do you need of a possible connection between rioting and perceived police actions before those that think there may be a link are not deluded?

We waited for hours outside the station for a senior officer to speak with the family, in a demonstration led by young women. A woman-only delegation went into the station, as we wanted to ensure that this did not become confrontational. It was when the young women, many with children, decided to call it a day that the atmosphere changed, and guys in the crowd started to voice and then act out their frustrations.

Yahew · 09-08-2011 09:12AM

evercloserunion wrote: »

Also, I've heard of incidents in Notting Hill and Oxford Circus, not exactly remote working class suburbs and in fact quite close to Hyde Park.

Notting hill is right beside Bayswater.

Judgement Day · 09-08-2011 09:14AM

Yeah, I'm sure all those looting premises like the Carphone Warehouse are doing so in solidarity with the family of the man shot by police. Scum taking advantage of the situation and they need putting down like any mad dog.

Monty Burnz · 09-08-2011 09:17AM

cavedave wrote: »

Riots do tend to break out after perceived injustice at the hands of police. For example 1992 Los Angeles riots, the Stonewall riot, 2011 Egyptian revolution. How many examples do you need of a possible connection between rioting and perceived police actions before those that think there may be a link are not deluded?

It's just an excuse. You think that the scumbags who are stealing mobile phones from shops in Birmingham could even name the guy who was killed?

Let's face it, there's an army of amoral scumbags in most Western countries who are allowed exist purely on state handouts, and have no concept of right or wrong. They will do anything they think they can get away with, and if they get organised, we are all in trouble.

cavedave · 09-08-2011 09:17AM

Judgement
Day Yeah, I'm sure all those looting premises like the Carphone Warehouse are doing so in solidarity with the family of the man shot by police. Scum taking advantage of the situation and they need putting down like any mad dog.

Your claim was not that the rioters were doing something in solidarity but that the riot had 'bugger all to do'. Do you really think the riots would be happening now without the initial demonstration? because that is what you are claiming.

Monty Burnz

It's just an excuse. You think that the scumbags who are stealing mobile phones from shops in Birmingham could even name the guy who was killed?

But my question is not about whether it is an excuse or not. It is about whether the riots cause has 'has bugger all to do with anybody being killed by police'. If the police killing provided the 'excuse' you have to decide if this 'excuse' is more of a cause than 'bugger all'. Cause here means "something that lead to" not "a justification".

Edit: Ok to be clear here I am talking about the Is–ought problem. You could say "the riot is in no way excused by the shooting and I believe people are just using it as an excuse" This is your moral opinion on the riot. "What has followed on from Saturday night has bugger all to do with anybody being killed by police. " is a factual statement about what has occurred. Not what should have occurred or what moral responsibility people have for what they have done.

LCI · 09-08-2011 09:23AM

"Police said about 100 people had been arrested, many of them juveniles.
Police urged parents to contact their children and get them to return home."

Those parents are really stupid to allow their children on streets and to do such things. Even for poor families: They made damage to the society and they will get less financial support from the society.

Monty Burnz · 09-08-2011 09:26AM

LCI wrote: »

Those parents are really stupid to allow their children on streets and to do such things. Even for poor families: They made damage to the society and they will get less financial support from the society.

That would require joined-up thinking. I'm no social Darwinist, by any means, but there's absolutely no doubt that a lot of these losers have ended up at the bottom of society because they and their antecedents are the stupid dregs of the human pool.

LCI · 09-08-2011 09:26AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It's just an excuse. You think that the scumbags who are stealing mobile phones from shops in Birmingham could even name the guy who was killed?

Let's face it, there's an army of amoral scumbags in most Western countries who are allowed exist purely on state handouts, and have no concept of right or wrong. They will do anything they think they can get away with, and if they get organised, we are all in trouble.

Well said.

Dyr · 09-08-2011 09:28AM

sink wrote: »

I think it's gone way beyond grievance with the police. Why if they are just angry with the police are they tearing up, looting and burning their own neighbourhoods? The violence is less target towards the obvious targets e.g government building, police stations, police lines; and instead is target at branches of footlocker, hmv and curries as well as local hairdressers and corner shops. It is simple opportunism by criminals and thugs.

They're, like, attacking the corporates maan

gbee · 09-08-2011 09:29AM

I think they've got organised. Flash mob to flash riot and violence ~ same technology, different motives.

Dyr · 09-08-2011 09:33AM

teol wrote: »

Look at riots in Korea. They don't go about looting and vandalising property. They just focus on the police. This rioting in England is just a bunch of scumbags having a laugh and engaging in thuggery.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMi7Jkay0fY

The oul koreans love a good riot

getz · 09-08-2011 09:35AM

expect more problems,local communities are organizing their own,to take on the brain dead idiots,

Monty Burnz · 09-08-2011 09:35AM

The galling thing is that these subhumans will be collecting their dole money from the taxpayers whose communities they are destroying, and turning up as customers in the businesses they looted.

bohsfan · 09-08-2011 09:36AM

cavedave wrote: »

But my question is not about whether it is an excuse or not. It is about whether the riots cause has 'has bugger all to do with anybody being killed by police'.

You're right. Certainly- the killing of Mark Duggan and the protest that followed was the trigger for the violence that has been seen for the last few nights. However, any sense of protest that may have been initially present is now totally lost. This has turned into a simple free for all. It's almost as if the youth of one area of London want to be seen to 'outdo' any areas that were on fire the night before.

These people are not taking on the police, or burning down civic buildings or staging occupations. They are committing acts of wanton violence simply because they have seen they can get away with it. It all took a sickening turn for me when I heard eyewitness reports from people who have been woken to people breaking down the doors of their homes.

As we have seen here recently at the student/anti-imf protests, there is always an element who will use a legitimate protest as an opportunity to instigate a tipping-point towards violence. It tipped in London.

Monty Burnz · 09-08-2011 09:42AM

bohsfan wrote: »

These people are not taking on the police, or burning down civic buildings or staging occupations. They are committing acts of wanton violence simply because they have seen they can get away with it. It all took a sickening turn for me when I heard eyewitness reports from people who have been woken to people breaking down the doors of their homes.

I'm opposed to arming the citizenry, but that is contingent on the state offering protection. I'd be slow to punish someone who used lethal force to fight some subhumans out of their premises or home in these circumstances.

Matt Holck · 09-08-2011 09:47AM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

It's just an excuse. You think that the scumbags who are stealing mobile phones from shops in Birmingham could even name the guy who was killed?

Let's face it, there's an army of amoral scumbags in most Western countries who are allowed exist purely on state handouts, and have no concept of right or wrong. They will do anything they think they can get away with, and if they get organised, we are all in trouble.

NATO again

Dirk Gently · 09-08-2011 09:47AM

A report this morning of people being forced to strip naked in the streets.

http://istyosty.com/tmp/cache/a1f98c847c8a715fcc245fd8007bc5f9f7b025c7.html

Matt Holck · 09-08-2011 09:53AM

Bambi wrote: »

They're, like, attacking the corporates maan

corps have more control over our daily lives than the government

Monty Burnz · 09-08-2011 09:56AM

Dirk Gently wrote: »

A report this morning of people being forced to strip naked in the streets.

http://istyosty.com/tmp/cache/a1f98c847c8a715fcc245fd8007bc5f9f7b025c7.html

Yeah, it's really a political protest about the shooting of a gun-toting criminal...:rolleyes:

southsiderosie · 09-08-2011 10:05AM

Dirk Gently wrote: »

A report this morning of people being forced to strip naked in the streets.

http://istyosty.com/tmp/cache/a1f98c847c8a715fcc245fd8007bc5f9f7b025c7.html

I saw that article earlier, and it is totally sickening. Smashing up electronics stores is bad enough, but this kind of stuff demonstrates a complete lack of humanity or empathy.

As an aside, shame on the Daily Mail for not pixellating those poor people - as if they haven't been humiliated enough.

wes · 09-08-2011 10:13AM

Have only just been catching up on the news, as I have been busy the last few days, so I have only really become aware of the events in London last night. Seems like a right proper mess, not sure what to make of things just yet, but there is no excuse for this level of violence imho. Random people on the street are being attacked, and shops being looted. Anger at the police doesn't justify any of that.

Laminations · 09-08-2011 10:15AM

bohsfan wrote: »

You're right. Certainly- the killing of Mark Duggan and the protest that followed was the trigger for the violence that has been seen for the last few nights. However, any sense of protest that may have been initially present is now totally lost. This has turned into a simple free for all. It's almost as if the youth of one area of London want to be seen to 'outdo' any areas that were on fire the night before.

These people are not taking on the police, or burning down civic buildings or staging occupations. They are committing acts of wanton violence simply because they have seen they can get away with it. It all took a sickening turn for me when I heard eyewitness reports from people who have been woken to people breaking down the doors of their homes.

As we have seen here recently at the student/anti-imf protests, there is always an element who will use a legitimate protest as an opportunity to instigate a tipping-point towards violence. It tipped in London.

Exactly
The PC liberal left need to cop themselves on and stop trying to link this to the shooting of an alleged gangster. I dont even understand how decent people can claim Mark Duggan as an example of police brutality and racism. It's not like they shot Lenny Henry or Kriss Akabusi. the guy was a thug, being black was superfluous.

And now we have indiscriminate violence.
Shaun of the Dead on the streets of London except with mindless yobs.

mike65 · 09-08-2011 10:21AM

I suspect today will be the "fight back" day by ordinary people who start to gather at junctions and impose local curfews of their own.

London Riots

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