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London Riots

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Comments

  • #362
    Debthree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Debthree


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Ahem.

    Overheal - Location: South Carolina

    Ah, okay, sorry! My bad.


  • #363
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    amacachi wrote: »
    National Guard with proper equipment to get around and enough numbers and arms to enforce the law.
    Well your post implied there was something wrong with that. So I assumed you thought brutality was part of American SOP or something. But if you're just talking about the National Guard I'm not sure what would be so morally reprehensible about deploying such a thing.


  • #364
    Debthree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Debthree


    Overheal wrote: »
    Barely news


    <--- here

    :)

    I'm really sorry!! Er, I thought South Carolina was near Ballymun in Dublin. :o


  • #365
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Overheal wrote: »
    Barely news


    <--- here

    :)
    BTW: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/08/london-riots-third-night-live

    Seems the Telegraph has stopped for the evening but the Guardian is now starting again for the morning.


  • #366
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Overheal wrote: »
    Well your post implied there was something wrong with that. So I assumed you thought brutality was part of American SOP or something. But if you're just talking about the National Guard I'm not sure what would be so morally reprehensible about deploying such a thing.

    Deploying heavily armed people with a huge amount of power within one's own company is something that some may well call brutal (personally I don't see the issue in principle) but there are cases where heavy and possibly lethal force must be used.


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  • #367
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭paul71


    amacachi wrote: »
    The police have said they wouldn't attempt to prevent looting. Once that boundary is gone it starts a dangerous slide.
    The police seem to have preferred to have some areas completely destroyed rather than have light damage more spread out but once word spread that they could do what they wanted with impunity that was pretty much it.

    It looks like they have decided they don't have the resourses to protect shops and are allocating what they have to protecting banks and firefighters. I would guess they are operating to an emergancy contingancy plan where effective control has already beem lost and they are protecting only the most vital points.


  • #368
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Debthree wrote: »
    I'm really sorry!! Er, I thought South Carolina was near Ballymun in Dublin. :o

    We're closer to Boston than Berlin, but not that close.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • #369
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    paul71 wrote: »
    It looks like they have decided they don't have the resourses to protect shops and are allocating what they have to protecting banks and firefighters. I would guess they are operating to an emergancy contingancy plan where effective control has already beem lost and they are protecting only the most vital points.

    At this point yes but right from the start tonight and the previous few days they've stayed well back. From what I can tell (vast majority of focus in London) in Leeds the trouble was pretty localised and they actually announced they wouldn't try to stop any looting.


  • #370
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    amacachi wrote: »
    Deploying heavily armed people with a huge amount of power within one's own company is something that some may well call brutal (personally I don't see the issue in principle) but there are cases where heavy and possibly lethal force must be used.
    You wouldn't even have to use lethal force. This is the kind of situation for teargas, watercannons and all that good stuff. Plenty of these rioters I see from the photos seem to be disguising themselves heat to toe in tracksuits and facecovers. This has gone far beyond the original purpose.

    For that matter though England has expecially in the last few years had big problems controlling it's youth. Isn't some of the problem that they are released from school at 15 or so? It's still an impressionable age to be sent out into.


  • #371
    paul71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭paul71


    Overheal wrote: »
    Well your post implied there was something wrong with that. So I assumed you thought brutality was part of American SOP or something. But if you're just talking about the National Guard I'm not sure what would be so morally reprehensible about deploying such a thing.

    The concenous in this part of the world is that soldiers are a very dangerous substitute for police. Only in the most extrem of circumstances should their use be considered, but it would seem that this may be one of those situations.


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  • #372
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Debthree wrote: »
    Surely the police commissioner can call in the army?

    Why didn't Cameron come home earlier? He's been 'flying back' for a long time now.

    Looking at those scumbag rioters on Sky. They really are disgusting excuses for human beings.
    I was thinking that as well... sure it's only like 3 hours from Rome to LHR isn't it?


  • #373
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Overheal wrote: »
    You wouldn't even have to use lethal force. This is the kind of situation for teargas, watercannons and all that good stuff. Plenty of these rioters I see from the photos seem to be disguising themselves heat to toe in tracksuits and facecovers. This has gone far beyond the original purpose.
    I've been talking about tear gas and plastic bullets on the AH thread for ages. Apparently they don't have any watercannons on the UK mainland.
    For that matter though England has expecially in the last few years had big problems controlling it's youth. Isn't some of the problem that they are released from school at 15 or so? It's still an impressionable age to be sent out into.
    16, same as Ireland. Much like the US though many pretty much leave before that and when they hit 17/18 complain about their lack of opportunites.


  • #374
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    I was thinking that as well... sure it's only like 3 hours from Rome to LHR isn't it?

    I would've thought it would only be about 2. The flight he was getting back didn't leave til 3am though, despite it being announced before 10pm. Ridiculous stuff.


  • #375
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    well at 16 you've only got your Junior Cert. Here I always thought in England they took their Leaving equivalent that young, or have I got my marbles upside down?


  • #376
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Overheal wrote: »
    well at 16 you've only got your Junior Cert. Here I always thought in England they took their Leaving equivalent that young, or have I got my marbles upside down?

    It's all gotten very complicated lately. Last time I checked the GCSE was between the JC and LC in terms of level and is generally taken around the age of 16. I think the A-Levels are a 2 year course after that with AS levels in between in some schools or students can elect to do them.


    Also something I meant to say earlier wrt deploying the army, I strongly doubt there'd be many around tomorrow if there was a widespread and visible deployment of the army around 2-3pm.


  • #377
    evercloserunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭evercloserunion


    I'm asking a bit late, but... I'm planning to fly into London tomorrow, just for a night. We'd be hanging around the centre really, doing some touristy things and staying near Hyde Park. For those of you who are more familiar with the situation, can you advise if this is a good idea? How affected is the centre by the rioting?


  • #378
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    evercloserunion wrote: »
    I'm asking a bit late, but... I'm planning to fly into London tomorrow, just for a night. We'd be hanging around the centre really, doing some touristy things and staying near Hyde Park. For those of you who are more familiar with the situation, can you advise if this is a good idea? How affected is the centre by the rioting?
    Not overly familiar myself, but this may help. Keep in mind there seems to be a lot of movement.

    http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ll=51.558503%2C-0.055275&spn=0.114195%2C0.298691


  • #379
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    evercloserunion wrote: »
    I'm asking a bit late, but... I'm planning to fly into London tomorrow, just for a night. We'd be hanging around the centre really, doing some touristy things and staying near Hyde Park. For those of you who are more familiar with the situation, can you advise if this is a good idea? How affected is the centre by the rioting?
    Contact the airline and see what they advise, or check to see if there are any travel advisements already published. Officials at the London Airport you arrive at could probably tell you where you shouldn't go.


  • #380
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Also busses and trains stopped running through the troublespots early this (?) evening.


  • #381
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Overheal wrote: »
    well at 16 you've only got your Junior Cert. Here I always thought in England they took their Leaving equivalent that young, or have I got my marbles upside down?

    You're legally obliged to stay in school until 16, but the equivalent of the LC is taken at 18.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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  • #382
    Rubik.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rubik.


    Some gems from Nick Griffin Twitter account..

    "If the plague strikes in a mixed black/Muslim area like Luton or Leeds and crosses into THAT community then Enoch Powell's vision will come to pass. At the moment this is not 'racial', that would make it so."

    "Police in Brum not likely to get tough in protection of Bullring. They'd rather blacks loot that than turn towards Sparkbrook and clash with Asians. 2 dead last time that happened."

    "If the rumours of blacks and Muslims fighting each other in Leeds, Oldham & Nottingham are true hen the Army needs to be sent in. Police keeping out of the way in centre of Luton. That won't help."

    "100's of Turks clashing with blacks in Stoke Newington"

    "Going off in bethnal green as muslims beat back black attack on islamic bank. Looting at mile end."

    "Ah, it's a Sony depot not a Sainsbury one. That's why it was hit. Passing cars being attacked in West London. That'll be racist attacks on Asian and English motorists."

    "On the plus side, the multicult died tonight. Everything is changed. Utterly changed."

    "Riot footage shows it a joint black/Jewish affair. Now that is strange. Wonders of multi culturalism!"

    "In all the radio & TV interviews I've heard from London, I've only heard one real London accent. The people Hitler bombed just aren't there any more. It's a foreign city to me and mine."

    http://twitter.com/#!/nickgriffinmep

    Pretty hateful stuff, but quite funny nonethelesss. Sadly some of his views have been echoed in this thread.


  • #383
    evercloserunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭evercloserunion


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Not overly familiar myself, but this may help. Keep in mind there seems to be a lot of movement.

    http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ll=51.558503%2C-0.055275&spn=0.114195%2C0.298691
    Thanks for that. It pretty much confirmed my decision not go. Very annoyed about having to waste the money but better safe than sorry, and I imagine half of London will be shut down tomorrow night anyway.


  • #384
    Revolution9
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Revolution9


    If the BNP can somehow come out of this with a stronger and (even more) extreme support by convincing people that immigrants are all to blame for this then it could truely be a watershed moment for British politics. Scarey thought.


  • #385
    Debthree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Debthree


    evercloserunion wrote: »
    Thanks for that. It pretty much confirmed my decision not go. Very annoyed about having to waste the money but better safe than sorry, and I imagine half of London will be shut down tomorrow night anyway.

    I think you're making the right decision. If the riots were confined to one specific area, that would be different but god knows what areas will be hit next. I'm glad you've decided against it.


  • #386
    Debthree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 303 ✭✭Debthree


    I'm really gobsmacked at how easily one of the biggest cities in the world has been overtaken by mobs. It's extraordinary and very very scary.


  • #387
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Debthree wrote: »
    I think you're making the right decision. If the riots were confined to one specific area, that would be different but god knows what areas will be hit next. I'm glad you've decided against it.
    Police Chiefs on BBC radio are saying to stay out of the way regardless. Basically if you don't need to be there, don't be there. Don't spectate, etc. just let the cops go in and put down the riot.

    Have they switched the Cell Network to Emergency mode? It was one of the systems they said they were to install in the wake of the 7/7/05 bombings.


  • #388
    Rubik.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rubik.


    evercloserunion wrote: »
    I'm asking a bit late, but... I'm planning to fly into London tomorrow, just for a night. We'd be hanging around the centre really, doing some touristy things and staying near Hyde Park. For those of you who are more familiar with the situation, can you advise if this is a good idea? How affected is the centre by the rioting?

    I would still go. Nothing is happening around Hyde Park or anywhere close to it. Life will go on as normal in the tourists spots tomorrow. Stick to the West End tomorrow night and you'll be fine.


  • #389
    Ouijaboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Ouijaboard


    You're probably better off not going. Having lived over in London when the IRA were bombing the place and the obstructions that those incidents caused even if they were restricted to a single location, I can just imagine the west end tomorrow, it will be working, but with enormous police presence and cordons all over.
    The main idea now is to stop the centre of the city being overrun. This event is unprecedented in its widespread scale, literally full social breakdown in one of the largest cities in the world. Go over when it calms down....which could take a week or so yet. tbh I've never seen anything like it! I could imagine if it happened in Berlin or New York, there would be 30 or 40 yoofs shot by now, regardless of age!


  • #390
    Ouijaboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Ouijaboard


    Rubik. wrote: »
    I would still go. Nothing is happening around Hyde Park or anywhere close to it. Life will go on as normal in the tourists spots tomorrow. Stick to the West End tomorrow night and you'll be fine.

    The thing is though, what will be cancelled? Which theatres will be closed, stores and pubs deciding not to open? Nobody really knows yet, just not worth taking the chance.


    Then again it depends on how much you will lose on cost of flights etc...? If it starts running into the hundreds then go anyway, just be prepared for delays and some shut downs!


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  • #391
    evercloserunion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭evercloserunion


    Also, I've heard of incidents in Notting Hill and Oxford Circus, not exactly remote working class suburbs and in fact quite close to Hyde Park.


This discussion has been closed.
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