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Chinese coal blamed for global er... cooling !

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 905 ✭✭✭easychair


    According to Ray Bates, of the Meterology & Climate Center of UCD, he says the Artic ice is floating n the sea, and if it melts will cause no increase in sea levels, due to Archimedes Principle. He further goes on to say that ice on Greenland, if it melts, probably will add to sea levels, but that’s counteracted by the fact that the Antartic is doing the opposite of the Artic and is actually getting colder and the areas of ice are increasing. As the seas are connected, and bearing in mind these facts, he says that its unlikely there will be much difference either way in sea levels.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Link?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    easychair wrote: »
    He further goes on to say that ice on Greenland, if it melts, probably will add to sea levels, but that’s counteracted by the fact that the Antartic is doing the opposite of the Artic and is actually getting colder...
    Is it?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,517 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    easychair wrote: »
    According to Ray Bates, of the Meterology & Climate Center of UCD, he says the Artic ice is floating n the sea, and if it melts will cause no increase in sea levels, due to Archimedes Principle. He further goes on to say that ice on Greenland, if it melts, probably will add to sea levels, but that’s counteracted by the fact that the Antartic is doing the opposite of the Artic and is actually getting colder and the areas of ice are increasing.
    Since you didn't bother to provide a link, here is one from Ray


    http://www.c-s.ie/media/Climate_Change_Update_Bates.pdf
    7. Land-based Ice
    Unlike the melting of sea ice, which does not directly influence sea level, the melting of land-
    based ice does contribute directly to sea level rise. The melting of many glaciers along the
    margins of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets is accelerating (Pritchard et al., 2009;
    Velicogna, I., 2009). Globally, ice losses are estimated to contribute 1.8 mm yr-1 to sea level
    rise, the remainder of the total of 3.5 mm yr-1 being due to thermal expansion (see Section 8).
    Ice loss as a result of accelerated ice-sheet flow is so poorly understood that its potential
    contribution to sea level over the twenty-first century remains unpredictable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 905 ✭✭✭easychair


    Macha wrote: »
    Link?

    It is from an interview he gave to Pat Kenny on 250110, and which I downloaded from Pat Kelly show website. I got a new phone recently and it turned up on and it must have downloaded automatically as I'd forgotten about it. It's interesting tho.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 905 ✭✭✭easychair


    Coincidentally, we were watching this last evening, http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00818zy/The_Blue_Planet_Frozen_Seas/ in which David Attenborough claims the the Artic is a "Frozen Sea".


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    easychair, please try to reference sources that are accessible to all readers. BBC iPlayer is not open to Irish IP addresses.

    When we talk about ice on land, we're referring to Antarctica, Greenland, etc. I don't think anyone here is claiming that the Arctic represents a significant amount of land ice.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,517 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    easychair wrote: »
    Coincidentally, we were watching this last evening, http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00818zy/The_Blue_Planet_Frozen_Seas/ in which David Attenborough claims the the Artic is a "Frozen Sea".
    I'm not watching a 50 minute program to see if there are a few seconds where he actually says that .

    and even if he did, what was the context ?

    could he perhaps have referred to the sea in winter as the ice cover is cyclic

    this from 11 years ago Ice free water at the north pole / artic ice has thinned by 40% in the last 40 years
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/888235.stm


    This thread is in the science category , which means you need to back up your opinions with with facts that can be verified. Heresay or vague references don't make for a strong argument. Especially when going off topics on stuff that has been done to death before.



    has anyone mentioned the effects of acid rain from Chinese power stations ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 905 ✭✭✭easychair


    I'm not watching a 50 minute program to see if there are a few seconds where he actually says that .

    and even if he did, what was the context ?

    I was asked for a reference, and I gave it. No one is forcing you to do anything, or watch anything, you don't want to do.

    The context was that he was talking about the Arctic and Antartic, and there is no way I can prove that to anyone who wants to disbelieve anything unless someone else provides proof.

    Where we differ is that I am interested in more thank just the science, ( I am interested in the science also) and am happy to debate and discuss without laboriously expecting that every point be backed up with evidence.

    Acid rain is such an evocative term and was much in use in the 1980's when were all terrified that acid rain was going to destroy the forests of Europe. Thank heavens most of the forests seem to have escaped unscathed, and acid rain seems to have been consigned to history. Is it a particular problem in China?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    easychair wrote: »
    I was asked for a reference, and I gave it.
    You gave a source that most posters on this forum cannot access. Can you provide another please.
    easychair wrote: »
    The context was that he was talking about the Arctic and Antartic, and there is no way I can prove that to anyone who wants to disbelieve anything unless someone else provides proof.
    Or you could just provide another, more accessible source.
    easychair wrote: »
    I Where we differ is that I am interested in more thank just the science, ( I am interested in the science also) and am happy to debate and discuss without laboriously expecting that every point be backed up with evidence.
    Well that’s not how this forum works, particularly in threads prefixed with “Science” – if you make a claim/point, you have to back it up if challenged to do so.
    easychair wrote: »
    I Acid rain is such an evocative term and was much in use in the 1980's when were all terrified that acid rain was going to destroy the forests of Europe. Thank heavens most of the forests seem to have escaped unscathed, and acid rain seems to have been consigned to history.
    Eh, no, not really – it’s still a problem in several parts of the world, including Eastern and Northern Europe.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    easychair wrote: »
    I was asked for a reference, and I gave it. No one is forcing you to do anything, or watch anything, you don't want to do.
    Could you perhaps at least point out at which point in the video we are supposed to look at? 38 minutes in? 12 minutes 45 seconds?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,517 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    easychair wrote: »
    I was asked for a reference, and I gave it.
    That would be like me saying just google the points I make, the references you've provided are that vague. Drug companies and alternative medecine and many sceptics use the old trick of obstrufucating results and references such that they can't be examined so people can't refute them.

    Acid rain is such an evocative term and was much in use in the 1980's when were all terrified that acid rain was going to destroy the forests of Europe. Thank heavens most of the forests seem to have escaped unscathed, and acid rain seems to have been consigned to history. Is it a particular problem in China?
    Actually it's a HUGE problem


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5290236.stm
    "Increased sulphur dioxide emissions meant that one-third of China's territory was affected by acid rain, posing a major threat to soil and food safety," Sheng Huaren of the standing committee, was quoted by state media as saying.

    http://news.discovery.com/earth/dust-storms-china.html
    The situation is much the same in the northeastern United States and Canada, though further advanced. There, natural buffers -- calcium magnesium in soils and bedrock -- are so depleted from half a century of acid rain that forests continue to suffer to this day, even though federal regulations regulations have cut acid deposition in half.

    At this rate it's just a matter of time until China's dusty protection is gone, too.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/acid-rain-makes-life-hard-in-258-chinese-cit/736487/
    China, the world's largest consumer of coal, is paying a heavy price for its rapid development, with 258 of its cities experiencing acid rains due to excessive emission of sulphur dioxide, causing health hazards and damage to buildings and scenic spots, according to official statistics.

    The study of the changing weather pattern in Xiamen in the southeastern part of Fujian province, regarded as one of the best places to live or visit in China, shows that the city is witnessing continuous acid rains, staining its centuries-old colonial buildings and the world's biggest Buddhist statue.

    "Official statistics show every drop of rain in Xiamen in the first half of 2010 was acidic, recording pH levels of less than 5.6 (neutral is 7)," Zhuang Mazhan, chief engineer at Xiamen's Environmental Monitoring Central Station said.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,099 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Global Warming does not exist and was concocted by various governments and discredited "scientists" as a revenue generation exercise. Any person who is so arrogant to believe that the hand of man could change the world like this is truly deluded. Climate Change however is happening and has been happening for thousands and millions of years, its part of a natural cycle and if we get snow or heat it is all attributed to global warming or some other pish posh green nonsense.

    It is all about one thing, increasing taxation and nothing else. I'm Glad to see the Green Party wiped out and Environmentalism totally dicredited in this country for the lies and fraud it represents.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    <mod>Oops, forgot to lock this thread.

    Stinicker, please use the Climate Change megathread.</mod>


This discussion has been closed.
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