FAS now Solais trying to get the 70 days holidays revoked

niallers1 · 04-08-2011 08:13PM

My Good Jesus...70 days to get used to retirement .. They should all be given 365 days to get used to retirement.

They should be all caught by the collar and [EMAIL="fu@ked"]fu@ked[/EMAIL] out the door..

With a government/quango mindset and mentality like that we are are in deepsh1t..

It a lovely cosy club to be in alright...

Welease · 04-08-2011 08:25PM

sollar wrote: »

No, not necessarily. In a general sense though its non stop on here and in some of the papers.

And why shouldn't it be non stop?.. You can blame the behaviour of FAS employees and representatives for this one.. If you don't want news or comment.. then don't create the story.

This would be a non story if FAS employees/unions had accepted the perk was from a bygone era of excess and moved on.. But they didn't, they are pushing it all the way to the labour courts, and thats when/why it appeared in the news.
.

The_Thing · 04-08-2011 08:50PM

Welease wrote: »

This would be a non story if FAS employees/unions had accepted the perk was from a bygone era of excess and moved on.. But they didn't, they are pushing it all the way to the labour courts, and thats when/why it appeared in the news.
.

This is what the labour court is for, is it not? What's the big deal if the unions avail of their rights in this manner?

Welease · 04-08-2011 08:52PM

The_Thing wrote: »

This is what the labour court is for, is it not? What's the big deal if the unions avail of their rights in this manner?

Then whats the problem with the media and public commenting on it? Isn't it the job of the media to report the news?

The_Thing · 04-08-2011 09:50PM

Welease wrote: »

Then whats the problem with the media and public commenting on it? Isn't it the job of the media to report the news?

I never said there was, I said that it was a matter for the labour court.

I'm not in FAS, but if I were I wouldn't give up my rights just because some hack decided to run a story on it.

gigino · 04-08-2011 10:06PM

The_Thing wrote: »

I'm not in FAS, but if I were I wouldn't give up my rights......

I'm not in FAS, but if I were I would give up " my rights " for the mid and long term good of the country, and my fellow citizens. I would find it grossly im-moral and unjust to have such pay, pension and perks when the country is going down the tubes.

As someone else correctly said ," With a government/quango mindset and mentality like that we are in deepsh1t.."

ahal · 04-08-2011 10:27PM

I wouldn't blame FAS people for holding out. Lesson #1 in Irish economics is that sacrifice / for the good of the country / 'Nationalism' is for poor people. Meanwhile one cock(roach) who helped get us where we are plays a round of Golf. Mention of his former life in AIB is met with "I don't want to talk about that" and "I'd like you to leave". The same cock(roach) made his money at both ends of the misery. He now sells distressed property!

Good of the nation is hogwash while the likes of this are at large, and indeed several other such bastards that I need not even name ... you know who they are. They would be in custody awaiting trial in any half - normal country.

The_Thing · 04-08-2011 10:38PM

gigino wrote: »

I'm not in FAS, but if I were I would give up " my rights " for the mid and long term good of the country, and my fellow citizens. I would find it grossly im-moral and unjust to have such pay, pension and perks when the country is going down the tubes.

I believe that you and one or two others couldn't care less about "the mid and long term good of the country, and my fellow citizens.", you're just along for the ride on another public-sector thread here on Boards.ie.

gigino · 04-08-2011 10:41PM

ahal wrote: »

Good of the nation is hogwash while the likes of this are at large, and indeed several other such bastards that I need not even name ...

The " several other such bastards " you refer to are a very small proportion of the 1,800,000 people in the wealth creating sector of the economy.

The "several other such bastards " you refer to should have been better regulated by the authorities / government / regulator ...all public sector.

The country is well and truly f&^%$d until the government/quango mindset and mentality changes.

gigino · 04-08-2011 10:44PM

The_Thing wrote: »

I believe that you and one or two others couldn't care less about "the mid and long term good of the country, and my fellow citizens.",

bulls**t, I live in the country as do my family etc. Do not forget for many people the lifestyle and pensions and earnings and ability to literally put bread on the table depends on the the mid and long term health of the country.

shaunsweb · 05-08-2011 12:07AM

Nijmegen wrote: »

In fairness, when you do such a thing you either (1.) Transfer all undertakings (what the government is doing), IE contracts; or (2.) As I suggested, make all employees redundant from FAS (which incurs redundancy costs) and re-hire the good people under new, better (for the taxpayer) contracts.

You can't simply tell someone 'Sorry, your job is gone' - you either pay them redundancy or you transfer their contract and conditions elsewhere.

I think if we look at the history of irish business over the past number of years, that unfortunately is exactly what has happened. One example comes to mind is Waterford Crystal. They were told 'sorry your job is gone, secondly the staff at anglo irish and so on and so forth'. So because it is a public service body, does that mean that a different set of rules should apply

gigino · 05-08-2011 12:59AM

There is only one set of rules, and those dictate that in the real world its unsustainable + foolish to pay your workforce twice their international western market rate, and give them 70 days paid extra holidays, as well as the other perks.

RichardAnd · 05-08-2011 08:35AM

The_Thing wrote: »

I believe that you and one or two others couldn't care less about "the mid and long term good of the country, and my fellow citizens.", you're just along for the ride on another public-sector thread here on Boards.ie.

Couldn't agree more. I'm just waiting for him to bring up the "apartments by the Shannon" mantra.

Tora Bora · 05-08-2011 09:29AM

niallers1 wrote: »

My Good Jesus...70 days to get used to retirement .. They should all be given 365 days to get used to retirement.

They should be all caught by the collar and fu@ked out the door..

With a government/quango mindset and mentality like that we are are in deepsh1t..

It a lovely cosy club to be in alright...

I think it was completely remiss of FAS, not to have had a five year lead in to retirement.
One year before retirement 70 days to get used to actual retiremant.
Two year retirement 35 days off, to get used to the 70 days in the year before retirement,
Three years before retirement, 18 days off to get used to the 35 days in the two years before retirement phase.
Four years before retirement, 9 days extra to get used to the 18 days ................. and so on.
It's the least we owe to these hard working patriots, who have served us all well on difficult foreign trips, to ssuch hell holes as Australia, USA, Canada, etc,..
Just be thankfull we had FAS to represent us in trying circumstances like these, http://www.independent.ie/national-news/harney-the-fas-trip-and-the-410-hairdo-1554731.html

ahal · 05-08-2011 10:28AM

gigino wrote: »

The " several other such bastards " you refer to are a very small proportion of the 1,800,000 people in the wealth creating sector of the economy.

Yes, but a relatively small number of people have done maximum damage to this country. I agree with the gist of your post btw, but while they're teeing off and flying to Spain for holidays it renders everything a joke imho.

gigino wrote: »

The "several other such bastards " you refer to should have been better regulated by the authorities / government / regulator ...all public sector.

... who are given their marching orders from on up high. They work for the Government, one which made the Mafia look like preacher - men. Time to clean it up, but it's not happening.

gigino wrote: »

The country is well and truly f&^%$d until the government/quango mindset and mentality changes.

I agree completely. However, if someone calls to my door in a Rolls Royce and asks if I can help them out with a few bob I might look at the Rolls and consider them spoofers.

I am very conscious of waste and against the kind of softness this thread is about, but when FAS people look on up the line, what do they see? They're wrong but I can't blame them for chancing it. The biggest 'heroes' of our mess have done so and it worked for them. Not only are they not in jail, they're actually giving us all the two fingers.

Drumpot · 05-08-2011 10:46AM

I always find it amusing, in the sense of wanting to pull my hair out, how anytime any government department is being changed, not needed or suffering cuts , how its always the first priority of the government to look after the best interests of the employees, rather then the taxpayers . .

Welease · 05-08-2011 11:03AM

Drumpot wrote: »

I always find it amusing, in the sense of wanting to pull my hair out, how anytime any government department is being changed, not needed or suffering cuts , how its always the first priority of the government to look after the best interests of the employees, rather then the taxpayers . .

If your moral compass is guided by the worst elements of Irish society, then I suppose to those who defend malpractice and waste it seems acceptable. In comparison to "the bankers" or "the developers" or <insert other> then wasting tax payers scare funds on smaller follies is ok isn't it?

Boulevardier · 05-08-2011 11:34AM

I have said several times that I think the FAS leave days are unacceptable. However, the comments were turning into an attack on all publc service perks, and that is where I would query some of the views expressed.

gigino · 05-08-2011 11:35AM

ahal wrote: »

Yes, but a relatively small number of people have done maximum damage to this country. I agree with the gist of your post btw, but while they're teeing off and flying to Spain for holidays it renders everything a joke imho.

The people I know flying off on holidays are public sector workers. The self employed I know are simply not taking holidays. Private sector employees I know are not going on foreign holidays this year either. I suppose not surprising when public sector pay, pensions + security is so much more than private sector.

Drumpot · 05-08-2011 11:41AM

Boulevardier wrote: »

I have said several times that I think the FAS leave days are unacceptable. However, the comments were turning into an attack on all publc service perks, and that is where I would query some of the views expressed.

Its not an attack, its a logical look at the financial situation the state is in versus the costs that it incurrs. . .

Perks and high salaries that were barely justifiable during the boom are simply undefendable in the current economic climate.

Perhaps the reason so many people within the Public service have coined the phrase "public service bashing" is because they really and truely dont understand or care what exactly has happened to this country (and what is subsequently sweeping the world).

If I believed my parents an endless pit of money and was getting whatever I wanted for so long, then I become accustomed to a certain lifestyle that I feel I am entitled to . . If my parentgs lose this money and get a loan from friends, do you think that its fair that I believe that I should continue to get the same subsidy from my folks ? Or am I just acting like a spoilt brat that has an entitlement complex that my parents refuse to challenge ?

Usually when I hear "public service bashing" it reminds me of the child in above scenario who cannot logically justify why they should continue to get what they want and they say "this is so unfair, you just dont understand". . . .

Cookie_Monster · 05-08-2011 11:46AM

gigino wrote: »

The people I know flying off on holidays are public sector workers. The self employed I know are simply not taking holidays. Private sector employees I know are not going on foreign holidays this year either. I suppose not surprising when public sector pay, pensions + security is so much more than private sector.

ah stop with that nonsense will ya, it's even worse than attacking public sector for the hell of it. I'm in the private sector, I've had holidays in Italy, America, Norfolk this year alone. Most of my friends and relations have done or are doing similar. The notion that everyone in the private sector is totally ****ed and cannot even go away for a holiday is pure rubbish. Yes there is a higher level of cutbacks and redundancy and most people have taken a hit of some sorts but we're not all suddenly on minimum wages working 60 hours while the boss lashes us to extract every last penny worth of effort...

fliball123 · 05-08-2011 11:50AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ah stop with that nonsense will ya, it's even worse than attacking public sector for the hell of it. I'm in the private sector, I've had holidays in Italy, America, Norfolk this year alone. Most of my friends and relations have done or are doing similar. The notion that everyone in the private sector is totally ****ed and cannot even go away for a holiday is pure rubbish. Yes there is a higher level of cutbacks and redundancy and most people have taken a hit of some sorts but we're not all suddenly on minimum wages working 60 hours while the boss lashes us to extract every last penny worth of effort...

Well arent you one of the lucky ones it still doesnt negate the fact that if you stay on your current wage or get big bonuses with exception of being a bank employee what you do , how you get your money does not come out of the tax payers pocket....That is fundamental to this argument...There has been nearly 400k gone from the private sector to the dole in the last 4 odd years and yet the will be asked to take a cut....As I have pointed out for every Euro not taken out of cuts in either of the 3 main areas socail welfare, Publicsector pay and penions or public services we will have to pay more in tax.

When you see the sh1te going on with the education budget ... the teachers and unions were asked to come up with ways to cut costs and there was a hush of silence as 80/85% of the budget goes on wages...So the gov has now told them they will have to cut some of the teachers (I think most of the temps) and now the unions are banging on saying that its unimaginable that the class size increase by 1 and yet no teacher (full time) will take a cut

So thats the situation left with the gov they have to take these unpalatable such as closing A&Es ...and all this so that the PS pay and pensions retain their terms and conditions?

Jaysoose · 05-08-2011 11:55AM

fliball123 wrote: »

Well arent you one of the lucky ones

To be fair he has a point it a bit of a misery competition with a lot of people at the minute when in reality they are just thick as pig**** with money.

Cookie_Monster · 05-08-2011 12:06PM

fliball123 wrote: »

Well arent you one of the lucky ones it still doesnt negate the fact that if you stay on your current wage or get big bonuses with exception of being a bank employee what you do , how you get your money does not come out of the tax payers pocket....That is fundamental to this argument...There has been nearly 400k gone from the private sector to the dole in the last 4 odd years and yet the will be asked to take a cut....As I have pointed out for every Euro not taken out of cuts in either of the 3 main areas socail welfare, Publicsector pay and penions or public services we will have to pay more in tax.

When you see the sh1te going on with the education budget ... the teachers and unions were asked to come up with ways to cut costs and there was a hush of silence as 80/85% of the budget goes on wages...So the gov has now told them they will have to cut some of the teachers (I think most of the temps) and now the unions are banging on saying that its unimaginable that the class size increase by 1 and yet no teacher (full time) will take a cut

So thats the situation left with the gov they have to take these unpalatable such as closing A&Es ...and all this so that the PS pay and pensions retain their terms and conditions?

oh I totally agree with your point, just not the silly, blanket generalisation that poster I quoted made. That's like me say everyone in the PS is entitled to the same 70 days the FAS people are when it's clearly not the case.

It takes away from the validity of the argument, whereas in the above you picked a specific point (teachers and class size) rather than grouping all the PS together and its a logical point/argument.

Tora Bora · 05-08-2011 01:23PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

ah stop with that nonsense will ya, it's even worse than attacking public sector for the hell of it. I'm in the private sector, I've had holidays in Italy, America, Norfolk this year alone. Most of my friends and relations have done or are doing similar. The notion that everyone in the private sector is totally ****ed and cannot even go away for a holiday is pure rubbish. Yes there is a higher level of cutbacks and redundancy and most people have taken a hit of some sorts but we're not all suddenly on minimum wages working 60 hours while the boss lashes us to extract every last penny worth of effort...

Three foreign holidays this year, and it's still only August.
Where's your green jersey ............... your country needs you, to spend your money here. Shame on you! :pac:

gigino · 05-08-2011 01:44PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm in the private sector, I've had holidays in Italy, America, Norfolk this year alone.

Good for you. There are hundreds of thousands of people who were in the private sector and who are now unemployed and who cannot. There are also hundreds of thousands of people in serious negative equity with their home , or who were self employed and have found their business dried up etc etc , and who cannot go on holidays like you. I suppose next you will brag that you get 70 days extra holidays to "ease" you in to retirement also, like some "public servants" ( FAS now Solais ) do.
The vast bulk of the 1.8 million people in the private sector do not get 70 extra days paid holidays to ease them in to retirement.....let alone holidays in " Italy, America, Norfolk " in the space of the first 7 months of this year alone. I know however the ESB get a few days paid course on how to spend their retirement windfall.

The country is well + truly ***** with the mindset of certain people.

Cookie_Monster · 05-08-2011 01:58PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Three foreign holidays this year, and it's still only August.
Where's your green jersey ............... your country needs you, to spend your money here. Shame on you! :pac:

and a permanent holiday at the end of August

gigino wrote:

There are also hundreds of thousands of people in serious negative equity with their home

with no one to blame for that but themselves.

I suppose next you will brag that you get 70 days extra holidays to "ease" you in to retirement also

nope, just a standard 22. and I'm not bragging about being able to go on holiday, just countering your ridiculous point that no one in the private sector can afford to go on holiday anymore, everyone I know, will get away at least once this year, even if only for a long weekend.

gigino · 05-08-2011 02:15PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

just countering your ridiculous point that no one in the private sector can afford to go on holiday anymore,

I never claimed that. I wrote "The people I know flying off on holidays are public sector workers. The self employed I know are simply not taking holidays. Private sector employees I know are not going on foreign holidays this year either. I suppose not surprising when public sector pay, pensions + security is so much more than private sector. "
Get your facts right.

05-08-2011 02:20PM

gigino wrote: »

I never claimed that. I wrote "The people I know flying off on holidays are public sector workers. The self employed I know are simply not taking holidays. Private sector employees I know are not going on foreign holidays this year either. I suppose not surprising when public sector pay, pensions + security is so much more than private sector. "
Get your facts right.

Conjecture;
the formation or expression of an opinion or theory without sufficient evidence for proof.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conjecture

ahal · 05-08-2011 02:22PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Three foreign holidays this year, and it's still only August.
Where's your green jersey ............... your country needs you, to spend your money here. Shame on you! :pac:

Let's not forget Joe Duffy's spend a fiver friday yokey or whatever it was! Double shame! :pac:

FAS now Solais trying to get the 70 days holidays revoked

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