Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.

Is David Norris Toast?

1…5859616364…70

Comments

  • #1802
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    You've written quite a script for this scenario man, it has to be said.

    unless someone is versed in Hebrew the case is a little a vague. I wish one of the papers would present the facts in a easy to follow manner. The sindo published The letters occupied an entire page and it took an eternity to ANALyse them.


  • #1803
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    unless someone is versed in Hebrew the case is a little a vague. I wish one of the papers would present the facts in a easy to follow manner. The sindo published The letters occupied an entire page and it took an eternity to ANALyse them.

    What was Nawi convicted of?


  • #1804
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    What would you suggest as a Europe-wide definition of adulthood?

    I think that is well defined as the age of majority which I believe is 18 in most countries.

    Just to clarify the ages quoted in many countries as an age of consent for example 13 in Spain must come with a very big legal warning. Even if said 13 year old consents the parents can make a criminal complaint if they believe the adult involved used undue influence for example if the adult was in a position of authority. The irish law is in my opinion better in that sex under 17 breaking law and consensual sex 17 and over not breaking law.


  • #1805
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    I think that is well defined as the age of majority which I believe is 18 in most countries.
    I'm afraid in most countries, it's not.

    In Ireland it's 17.

    In the UK, Israel, Norway Switzerland and Holland it's 16.

    In Denmark, Germany, France, Sweden, Portugal, Greece and Poland it's 15.

    In Austria, Hungary and Italy it's 14.


  • #1806
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,069 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    child abusers often argue that they were 'educating' their victims and teaching them that the world can be a bad place.
    a teenager is for the most part confused and for a mature adult to groom them a certain way is wrong.

    Don't they shower them with gifts too to soften them up.They boy probably looked up to this defender of Palestine as a hero. I wonder if this was Nawi's only victim as there might be a pattern to this.
    Besides that David Norris should have broken off communications with Nawi as soon as he heard about this incident. What kind of father figure is he for young gay men now as he has shown his true colours.


  • Advertisement
  • #1807
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    I'm afraid in most countries, it's not.

    In Ireland it's 17.

    In the UK, Israel, Norway Switzerland and Holland it's 16.

    In Denmark, Germany, France, Sweden, Portugal, Greece and Poland it's 15.

    In Austria, Hungary and Italy it's 14.


    Please look at the question what is the definition of an adult. And I clearly said the age of majority is 18. To define the age of majority it is when you legal become an adult.


  • #1808
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    Please look at the question what is the definition of an adult. And I clearly said the age of majority is 18. To define the age of majority it is when you legal become an adult.

    Oh go away. We're talking about the age of consent. Stay with the programme.


  • #1809
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Godge wrote: »
    Many of the people on this thread are for the protection of children and teenagers from exploitation by older men. Are you against that?


    Seeing as I've been saying Norris was wrong and a 40/50 year old with a 15 year old is wrong? Yep!

    I'm all for Anal sex though as a hetrosexual man.

    Might as well keep the AH theme.

    Context and considered opinion should be for Politics. Strawmen arguments for AH.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #1810
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    Oh go away. We're talking about the age of consent. Stay with the programme.

    Ok I will try and explain in easy words.

    I know we are talking about age of consent. As is clear from the rest of my answer.

    The question you asked was badly worded.

    I answered with sarcasm by taking your badly worded question and answering literally.

    You then ignored what I said about the Spanish age of consent.

    See in debate it's as important to listen to what other person says as to put forward your own views.


  • #1811
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    Ok I will try and explain in easy words.

    I know we are talking about age of consent.

    The question you asked was badly worded.

    I answered with sarcasm by taking your badly worded question and answering literally.

    You then ignored what I said about the Spanish age of consent.

    See in debate it's as important to listen to what other person says as to put forward your own views.

    I'm delighted for you. Semantic victories are really great.

    Now can we talk about the age of consent, which is relevant to this thread?


  • Advertisement
  • #1812
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    I'm delighted for you. Semantic victories are really great.

    Now can we talk about the age of consent, which is relevant to this thread?

    You see if you actually read what I said you would see, that while some countries say the age of consent is say 13. It in fact is not. As in those countries a 40 year old teacher can still face a criminal prosecution even if there is consent, up until the person is a legal adult. In fact legally most European countries are between 16 and 18. The younger ages still allow for prosecution if there is undue influence.


  • #1813
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    I'm delighted for you. Semantic victories are really great.

    Now can we talk about the age of consent, which is relevant to this thread?

    Keeping on theme for you then, many countries with a lower age of consent like Spain have qualifiers on age differences, grooming by older persons, etc. Its not as clear cut as you would like to make it out to be.


  • #1814
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    Its not as clear cut as you would like to make it out to be.

    I'm not sure how you know what I'd like.


  • #1815
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    I'm not sure how you know what I'd like.

    Your not good at sarcasm.


  • #1816
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    Your not good at sarcasm.
    All right then. Please explain how you know what I'd like.


  • #1817
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    I'm not sure how you know what I'd like.

    Well your statements would suggest that you seem to think that once its 14 that the young person can have sex with anyone any age, thats not the case. A lower age of consent in another country does not mean that this situation was not still against the law in that country. If thats now what you are suggesting a little clarity in your posts would save the confusion. Nice dodge btw.


  • #1818
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    All right then. Please explain how you know what I'd like.

    OK well again if you read the post what it said was "Its not as clear cut as you would like to make it out to be."

    Now I have to go out on a limb, but considering you have clearly stated we are talking about the age of consent, see I listen. Then if we exchange it's with age of consent the sentence reads "the age of consent Is not as clear cut as you would like to make it out to be."

    So now we can say that what you like is that the age of consent is clear cut.


  • #1819
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    Don't flatter yourself. I'm not dodging any debate here and I'll be happy to discuss whatever you want to debate.

    The issue is much more fundamental, and it has to do with common definitions. Unless we all agree on precisely what we're arguing about, all we can do is talk nonsense. This argument so far has been characterised by generalities and sloppy thinking, which is not conducive to clear thinking. Once we achieve common ground, we'll be able to resolve the discussion much more easily.


  • #1820
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    OK well again if you read the post what it said was "Its not as clear cut as you would like to make it out to be."

    Now I have to go out on a limb, but considering you have clearly stated we are talking about the age of consent, see I listen. Then if we exchange it's with age of consent the sentence reads "the age of consent Is not as clear cut as you would like to make it out to be."

    So now we can say that what you like is that the age of consent is clear cut.

    Our comments crossed. All I can say is, Enjoy the bottle. Talk tomorrow.


  • #1821
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    Don't flatter yourself. I'm not dodging any debate here and I'll be happy to discuss whatever you want to debate.

    The issue is much more fundamental, and it has to do with common definitions. Unless we all agree on precisely what we're arguing about, all we can do is talk nonsense. This argument so far has been characterised by generalities and sloppy thinking, which is not conducive to clear thinking. Once we achieve common ground, we'll be able to resolve the discussion much more easily.

    Clear thinking then age of consent is not same as legally adult. BTW I think they should be the same any age between 16 and 18 would do.

    Ok in Ireland age of consent is 17 legally an adult at 18 it's funny you can decide to have sex with a 90 year old at 17 but you can't go for a drink with him. Might be better to make it all 18.

    In Spain it may or may not be be legal to have sex with a 14 year old it will depend on the facts I assume that this is to allow 2 14 year olds to have a shag without any legal problems unlike Ireland.

    The funny thing is that we more than likely agree on the issue my own view is that the age of majority should be the same as the age of consent. With a a 2 3 or 4 year rule to make sure a child is not convicted of a sex crime.


  • Advertisement
  • #1822
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    We still don't have source material to determine what age the youth in the Nawi case was. If we did we could end this discussion now.

    Why is this material not available?


  • #1823
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    AFAIK, at least in part because we're not so hot on our Hebrew, and it's one of the languages Google Translate doesn't do very well.


  • #1824
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    And yet, all these people who don't speak Hebrew seem so certain of their facts.


  • #1825
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    Don't flatter yourself. I'm not dodging any debate here and I'll be happy to discuss whatever you want to debate.

    The issue is much more fundamental, and it has to do with common definitions. Unless we all agree on precisely what we're arguing about, all we can do is talk nonsense. This argument so far has been characterised by generalities and sloppy thinking, which is not conducive to clear thinking. Once we achieve common ground, we'll be able to resolve the discussion much more easily.

    I am speaking specifics, the age of consent here is clear cut, you can have sex with anoyone of any age above 17. In countries with a lower age of consent that is often not the case. The age of consent is lower so as not to criminalise children of the same age engaging in sexual activity. Therefore they include sections which protect those children from grooming by older people. I don't see how any of what I have said is generalisation, I am being pretty specific whereas you are saying the age of consent is lower in other jurisdictions and that what we are discussing here would not be an issue there. I am explaining why its not that simple and it would still be a crime in those jurisdictions. how much more clear cut can I get.


  • #1826
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    We still don't have source material to determine what age the youth in the Nawi case was. If we did we could end this discussion now.

    Why is this material not available?

    He was obviously underage, otherwise there would have been no charge of statutory rape, so what difference does the exact age make.


  • #1827
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    He was obviously underage, otherwise there would have been no charge of statutory rape, so what difference does the exact age make.

    Because they had two definitions of underage. 15 and 17.


  • #1828
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    We still don't have source material to determine what age the youth in the Nawi case was. If we did we could end this discussion now.

    Why is this material not available?

    On the evidence we know the following.

    He was below the age of consent. We know that according to all the report he is quoted as 15, now the problem is we don't know for sure was he 15 in 1992 the time of the offence or 15 in 1997 the date of the conviction.

    Ignoring the reports that the judge said it was consensual and gave a 1 mont sentence. As I have not seen any reliable evidence that such was the case.

    So we can be sure if the child was 15 in 1997 then he was 10 at the offence or we can say he was 15 at the time of the offence. So the child was either 10 or 15. To be honest if the child was 10 I do not see any Court giving a sentence of less than 5 years.

    I agree where you are coming from the letter from David Norris would be even worse if the child was 10.

    But the usual convention when reporting such crimes is to quote the age at the time of the offence.


  • #1829
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    On the evidence we know the following.

    He was below the age of consent. We know that according to all the report he is quoted as 15, now the problem is we don't know for sure was he 15 in 1992 the time of the offence or 15 in 1997 the date of the conviction.

    Ignoring the reports that the judge said it was consensual and gave a 1 mont sentence. As I have not seen any reliable evidence that such was the case.

    So we can be sure if the child was 15 in 1997 then he was 10 at the offence or we can say he was 15 at the time of the offence. So the child was either 10 or 15. To be honest if the child was 10 I do not see any Court giving a sentence of less than 5 years.

    I agree where you are coming from the letter from David Norris would be even worse if the child was 10.

    But the usual convention when reporting such crimes is to quote the age at the time of the offence.


    There were two different ages of consent.

    Do you have a link to a first-hand report of the trial? That would settle the matter once and for all and we could all forget about it.


  • #1830
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Bock the Robber wrote: »
    Because they had two definitions of underage. 15 and 17.

    I don't understand, are we talking Irish or Isreal law.

    In Irish law there are yes two ages of consent 17 for sex, 15 for anything not including full sex oral, anal or vaginal.


  • Advertisement
  • #1831
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    I don't understand, are we talking Irish or Isreal law.

    In Irish law there are yes two ages of consent 17 for sex, 15 for anything not including full sex oral, anal or vaginal.

    It happened in Israel.

    At that time, Israeli law defined 16 as the age of consent for heterosexuals and 18 for homosexuals.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement