FAS now Solais trying to get the 70 days holidays revoked

fliball123 · 03-08-2011 09:23AM #1

Hi all another day another PS/Quango bashing thread or so it would seem. Being honest I dont care how many PS workers come on here giving it the "ahh this auld sh1te again" but its not the same auld sh1te its new sh1te just the same Mantra.

So here we go..As most have heard FAS is being scraped or rolling into a new entity called Solais..Now the gov are trying to get rid of a perk which (now get this) allows employees in their last 2 years of employment before retirement have 70 days holidays in order to acclimatise to Retirement..

How can FAS defend this? Now this fcuking goon by the name of John O'Brien (SIPTU) was on Newstalk giving it the auld "ah we know we are in different times and perks like this are a bit outdated" and in the next breath "it will have to be negotiated away" When pressed on what figure it would take to get this out of the existing contract. He said "I will not discuss a figure on air"

Why cant the gov just say its a new entity ... Your contract with FAS is void as it no longer exists if you want the job you have to leave this type of outdated perk behind..

I sigh as I write this I am tired of posting on here bashing PS workers ...Seriously but the lack of effort on some in the PS and Quangos is beyond belief...When are people going to wake up to reality.

Cookie_Monster · 03-08-2011 09:25AM

The fact that everyone in FAS now works for Solas says all you need to hear about the whole situation TBH...

fliball123 · 03-08-2011 09:26AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The fact that everyone in FAS now works for Solas says all you need to hear about the whole situation TBH...

To Be Honest we cannot afford to give people 70 days holidays in order to acclimatise to retirement please will these people wake up to the 2011 Irish reality

Sleepy · 03-08-2011 09:47AM

FÁS was not fit for purpose. Changing it's name to Solais won't make it any more so tbh.

It should have been completely scrapped and it's staff made redundant. In fact, it would have made a great stepping stone to eroding union power in the PS as there would have been zero public support for any industrial action carried out by the staff being made redundant and, I'd suspect, very little from their union colleagues in other departments: who'd want to associate themselves with such a thoroughly corrupt and incompetent organisation as FÁS?

reprazant · 03-08-2011 09:58AM

fliball123 wrote: »

To Be Honest we cannot afford to give people 70 days holidays in order to acclimatise to retirement please will these people wake up to the 2011 Irish reality

True. Its a ridiculous perk. Gold only knows how it got approved.

In saying that, if I were about to retire and about to lose that perk, I would also fight to keep it, as would pretty much everyone here.

Lumbo · 03-08-2011 10:20AM

Why cant the gov just say its a new entity ... Your contract with FAS is void as it no longer exists

Because there's Employment law in place to say that it can't.

Hate the game, not the player

fliball123 · 03-08-2011 10:20AM

reprazant wrote: »

True. Its a ridiculous perk. Gold only knows how it got approved.

In saying that, if I were about to retire and about to lose that perk, I would also fight to keep it, as would pretty much everyone here.

But in fairness could you imagine if say SIPTU members went out on strike over this issue..Its time the gov grew a set and state..This perk is gone..Go strike if nessacery...See how much public support they get..and thats how they should approach all silly outdated mechanisms which exist in current Quango and PS contracts..Attack them one by one until they are eliminated

Nijmegen · 03-08-2011 10:26AM

Instead of transferring undertakings the government ought to have simple fired everyone in FAS as they wound it down and offered to rehire (1.) the people they needed and (2.) the people who could actually do a job (about five of them, probably /glib) on (3.) a sane contract.

Make it a model for public sector reform.

Instead, more of the same.

Our politicians and their cushy special interest friends, f****** Ireland since 1922.

Lumbo · 03-08-2011 10:30AM

Nijmegen wrote: »

Instead of transferring undertakings the government ought to have simple fired everyone in FAS as they wound it down and offered to rehire (1.) the people they needed and (2.) the people who could actually do a job (about five of them, probably /glib) on (3.) a sane contract.

Make it a model for public sector reform.

Instead, more of the same.

Our politicians and their cushy special interest friends, f****** Ireland since 1922.

I would imagine the redundancy bill would be huge. Can't see them paying anywhere near compulsory.

Sleepy · 03-08-2011 10:33AM

Why not? Same lack of balls / fear of unions?

Like I said, I don't think the unions would have the support within their own ranks to support any action for their brethren in FÁS, never mind popular support.

A massive opportunity squandered imho.

Murt10 · 03-08-2011 10:38AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The fact that everyone in FAS now works for Solas says all you need to hear about the whole situation TBH...

No. 40% of them are going into Social Welfare.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0906/1224278286500.html

Cookie_Monster · 03-08-2011 10:39AM

Murt10 wrote: »

No. 40% of them are going into Social Welfare.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0906/1224278286500.html

even better!
:rolleyes:

Lumbo · 03-08-2011 10:43AM

Sleepy wrote: »

Why not? Same lack of balls / fear of unions?

Like I said, I don't think the unions would have the support within their own ranks to support any action for their brethren in FÁS, never mind popular support.

A massive opportunity squandered imho.

Probably, I think the government are of the view that harmony with Unions is better then what we experienced in the 70's/80's. Maybe it's for political reasons/maybe economic. Not really sure of the reasoning behind it with our current situation.

Employment Law and the Labour Court/EAT don't really help.

Sleepy · 03-08-2011 10:48AM

I think they fail to realise how different the population are now than they were in the 70's. Most of us don't have any problems crossing a picket line these days, higher education levels and the influx of American multi-nationals and real world employment practices since the 80's have resulted in much higher levels of realism amongst my generation than my grandfathers.

Employment Law could have been completely side-stepped had they closed FÁS and let the staff go rather than re-branding it.

si_guru · 03-08-2011 10:50AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The fact that everyone in FAS now works for Solas says all you need to hear about the whole situation TBH...

I said the exact same thing yesterday, as I was passing FAS in Tralee. There is a high metal fence around the site... to keep out reality!

Nijmegen · 03-08-2011 10:54AM

Lumbo wrote: »

I would imagine the redundancy bill would be huge. Can't see them paying anywhere near compulsory.

Redundancy is a frontloaded investment in a massive saving you make long term. One thing we don't do much in Ireland is take a 10 or 20 year budget perspective.

Get rid of the dead wood, give them a €30k redundancy and even if you only make a €10k a year saving you've made a saving of €70k in ten years, dump 700 of FAS's 1,300 and it's €70m you don't have to borrow and pay further interest on. Increase the saving depending on what you actually get when their pension and/or dole is counted (by average PS pay you'd probably make a saving of €30k+ on each head you got rid of in the whole, so €210m if you like... I can make up numbers all day, the department of finance hopefully does these sums for real...)

No. 40% of them are going into Social Welfare.

Ok, let's rephrase. 'All of FAS's employees are remaining in the service of the state.'

Probably, I think the government are of the view that harmony with Unions is better then what we experienced in the 70's/80's. Maybe it's for political reasons/maybe economic. Not really sure of the reasoning behind it with our current situation.

Employment Law and the Labour Court/EAT don't really help.

Harmony with the unions = being held to randsom.

EricPraline · 03-08-2011 10:56AM

Demonstrates clearly the pointlessness of the cynical rebranding exercise.

As with the Irish banks, we see employees of a failed entity being rewarded for poor performance, while everybody else picks up the tab. I wonder how other members of SIPTU feel about subsidising the gentle acclimatisation of their poor brethren in FAS.

Jaysoose · 03-08-2011 11:01AM

This perk is a gross misuse of the taxpayers money and should be removed immediately, any public servant or union rep that defends this needs to wake up.

I would actually go further and demand an investigation into who agreed to this and have them attempt justify this use of public funds. No doubt they have long retired with a nice fat pension and nobody is accountable though.

quaalude · 03-08-2011 11:43AM

EricPraline wrote: »

...we see employees of a failed entity being rewarded for poor performance, while everybody else picks up the tab.

This is *always* the way, when the State is involved.

Atilathehun · 03-08-2011 01:26PM

Why, oh why does this sh1t have to be debated any more than for 2.5 seconds, when we have a new government with a clear mandate for change and an unassailable majority in the Dail.

All this bullsh1t stuff in the economy, should just be driven over and flattened and burned in one single sitting of the Dail. No more waffle.

No more listening to or taking any account whatsoever of bearded comrades in Siptu.

Cut, slash, and burn should be the motto!

SBWife · 03-08-2011 01:27PM

Bloody insanity...I'm so fed up of unions holding the rest of us to ransom and the state capitulating.

Give these FAS workers a choice new contract with the new organisation under competitive T&C and wages with a six month probation or take statutory redundancy.

Anyone remember the 1970s/1980s when private sector workers went on a series of one day strikes and held huge demonstrations. It might be time for a revisit.

Manach · 03-08-2011 01:32PM

Atilathehun wrote: »

No more listening to or taking any account whatsoever of bearded comrades in Siptu.

... who are a core support group of Labour, who are in government: plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

bamboozle · 03-08-2011 01:32PM

Atilathehun wrote: »

Why, oh why does this sh1t have to be debated any more than for 2.5 seconds, when we have a new government with a clear mandate for change and an unassailable majority in the Dail.

All this bullsh1t stuff in the economy, should just be driven over and flattened and burned in one single sitting of the Dail. No more waffle.

No more listening to or taking any account whatsoever of bearded comrades in Siptu.

Cut, slash, and burn should be the motto!

+1

shaunsweb · 03-08-2011 02:18PM

Am I missing something here? FAS is being abolished so therefore it's mechanisms, policies, procedures and perks are also being abolished and in it's place is a new agency (surely with new mechanisms, policies, procedures). Am I niave in thinking that if you want to move into that job, then you need to apply for it and as such any new position comes with its new terms and conditions? These little perks, incentives, bonuses that we keep getting drip fed, is getting way beyond a joke and way beyond the patience of those in private sector or unemployed who are trying to keep their heads above water. Where is the Minister for public service reform in all this? Get your finger out!

Rant over and apologies to all

Nijmegen · 03-08-2011 02:37PM

shaunsweb wrote: »

Am I missing something here? FAS is being abolished so therefore it's mechanisms, policies, procedures and perks are also being abolished and in it's place is a new agency (surely with new mechanisms, policies, procedures). Am I niave in thinking that if you want to move into that job, then you need to apply for it and as such any new position comes with its new terms and conditions? These little perks, incentives, bonuses that we keep getting drip fed, is getting way beyond a joke and way beyond the patience of those in private sector or unemployed who are trying to keep their heads above water. Where is the Minister for public service reform in all this? Get your finger out!

Rant over and apologies to all

In fairness, when you do such a thing you either (1.) Transfer all undertakings (what the government is doing), IE contracts; or (2.) As I suggested, make all employees redundant from FAS (which incurs redundancy costs) and re-hire the good people under new, better (for the taxpayer) contracts.

You can't simply tell someone 'Sorry, your job is gone' - you either pay them redundancy or you transfer their contract and conditions elsewhere.

sollar · 03-08-2011 02:58PM

If i read it correctly on the RTE Teletext it is an extra 44 days over the final 2 years. Therefore 22 days + Annual Leave 26 days = 48 days not 70.

So its either more shoddy journalism by the Indo or just plain old lies.

SBWife · 03-08-2011 03:10PM

sollar wrote: »

If i read it correctly on the RTE Teletext it is an extra 44 days over the final 2 years. Therefore 22 days + Annual Leave 26 days = 48 days not 70.

So its either more shoddy journalism by the Indo or just plain old lies.

It would help if you occasionally read past the headline. RTE quote the same number as the Indo 44 + 26 = 70 it's in the 4th paragraph.

Lumbo · 03-08-2011 03:31PM

sollar wrote: »

If i read it correctly on the RTE Teletext it is an extra 44 days over the final 2 years. Therefore 22 days + Annual Leave 26 days = 48 days not 70.

So its either more shoddy journalism by the Indo or just plain old lies.

Shouldn't really matter how many days extra they get. It's a ridiculous perk.

Tora Bora · 03-08-2011 03:45PM

Speaking of holidays and all that mullarkey.

Country is banjaxed. Need to get competitive. Cannot devalue currency to help that process.
We could reduce the cost of labour by reducing and eliminating holidays.

Cut bank holidays by 50% to start.
This business of bank holidays is total crap, when there is work to be done and a country to be saved from extinction.

bleg · 03-08-2011 04:28PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Speaking of holidays and all that mullarkey.

Country is banjaxed. Need to get competitive. Cannot devalue currency to help that process.
We could reduce the cost of labour by reducing and eliminating holidays.

Cut bank holidays by 50% to start.
This business of bank holidays is total crap, when there is work to be done and a country to be saved from extinction.

How about the hundreds of millions that were spent by Irish people in the hospitality sector over the bank holiday weekend...

sollar · 03-08-2011 04:36PM

SBWife wrote: »

It would help if you occasionally read past the headline. RTE quote the same number as the Indo 44 + 26 = 70 it's in the 4th paragraph.

I thought it was 44 days over the final 2 years. 22 per year (+26).

Either way i'm not defending it.

FAS now Solais trying to get the 70 days holidays revoked

Comments