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Is it any wonder our country is haemorrhaging money

  • 03-08-2011 08:48AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    FAS staff get 70 days' leave 'to ease into retirement'
    By Anne-Marie Walsh Industry Correspondent


    Wednesday August 03 2011

    FAS staff can take 70 days' annual paid leave and holidays in each of the two years before they retire -- and are now battling to cling on to the perk.

    The controversial scheme was designed to allow staff to "acclimatise" to impending retirement.

    The Irish Independent has learned of the special leave allowance after management at the defunct body was forced to yield to union pressure when they tried to end the practice last month.

    The failed state-training agency is being re-branded as Solas.

    The impasse represents another thorn in the side of Education Minister Ruairi Quinn, whose training-sector reforms involve the transfer of hundreds of FAS staff to the new agency.

    But hundreds of staff who will move to Solas are now battling to hold on to their leave/holiday entitlements.

    The 1,500 staff moving to the Department of Social Protection and Vocational Education Committees are also resisting any change.

    It is understood there is no scheme in existence in the rest of the public sector comparable with the generous provisions on offer at FAS.

    Correspondence

    Even union sources admit the scheme is "generous" while private sector employers said it would be completely alien to most workers.

    Under the "pre-retirement leave" scheme, employees at FAS can apply for an extra 44 days off a year on top of their regular 26 days' annual leave.

    This entitlement is valid for a period of two years before retirement -- meaning departing staff can enjoy a total of 140 days, or almost five months of paid leave.

    Internal correspondence obtained by the Irish Independent reveals efforts were made last month by FAS management to scrap the scheme.

    However, management were forced to reinstate it just weeks later. Unions took the issue to the Labour Relations Commission and have since sought a hearing at the Labour Court.

    Emails from FAS's human resources department informed staff last month that no further applications for pre-retirement leave would be accepted.

    It said this meant no further leave would be granted except to those approved before May 19 this year.

    But it reversed this the following month. in a message on July 12, FAS said the previous instruction had been "rescinded" following a Labour Relations Commission meeting.

    The row over the perk is already a stumbling block to redeployment under the Croke Park deal.

    Under the €85bn bailout deal, the Government has committed to implementing a wide-ranging programme of reforms to make major savings -- including moving surplus staff to busy parts of the public sector.

    The IMF and EU will be looking for proof of those savings when they return in September to monitor progress.

    Employer agency IBEC last night said it was time for these types of archaic practices to be abolished.

    "Schemes of this order don't exist in the private sector," said director Brendan McGinty.

    "There may be instances where employers may provide support for pre-retirement courses, but generally speaking they are of very short duration.

    "I don't even know what those 44 days are supposed to be for. These sort of practices do not help to inspire public confidence in the Croke Park deal to deliver the kind of changes that are necessary."

    FAS said its board made a decision early this year to discontinue pre-retirement leave.

    "This decision is currently the subject of a Labour Court Hearing and Fas is therefore not in a position to comment," said a spokeswoman.

    SIPTU FAS branch organiser Brendan O'Brien said that the union was open to a "buyout" of the pre-retirement entitlements.

    But he said the offer FAS had put on the table -- a one-off "buyout" of up to three extra days off over three years -- was not good enough.

    "We're prepared to deal with the issue but if the board wants a buyout it must make a reasonable offer," he said.

    - Anne-Marie Walsh Industry Correspondent

    Irish Independent

    tldr version if you work in FAS you get 140 extra paid days (70 extra a year) off in the last 2 years of work to "ease" into retirement...

    The majority do F-all anyway so surely they should be used to sitting around


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭FatherLen


    rabble rabble rabble....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    Why didn't you complain during the boom?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    Nod. Smile politely. Slowly back away.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    Guill wrote: »
    Why didn't you complain during the boom?

    quite simply i didn't know!

    heard it on the radio this morning and didn't believe it (thought i had to have misheard it!)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    How is it a stumbling block to the rebranding?

    Like it, lump it or **** off is the obvious solution.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,488 ✭✭✭Yahew


    70 a year is a bit excessive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Good for them, I wish I had those conditions
    But hundreds of staff who will move to Solas are now battling to hold on to their leave/holiday entitlements.

    Is there anyone here who wouldn't try to hold onto their entitlements?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Guill wrote: »
    Why didn't you complain during the boom?

    Because no one knew about it ???


    All these idiotic statements.... rabble rabble rabble???



    Like FFS we're being taken for a bloody ride. Im glad all this stuff is being exposed its clear as day how ridiculous now some of our services are.

    Everyone was being kept in the dark to this stuff when the money was around. And it was just as unacceptable back then as it is now. What planet are these people living on!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭FatherLen


    listermint wrote: »
    Because no one knew about it ???


    All these idiotic statements.... rabble rabble rabble???



    Like FFS we're being taken for a bloody ride. Im glad all this stuff is being exposed its clear as day how ridiculous now some of our services are.

    Everyone was being kept in the dark to this stuff when the money was around. And it was just as unacceptable back then as it is now. What planet are these people living on!
    yeah rabble rabble rabble what dont you get???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭Fago!


    mikemac wrote: »
    Good for them, I wish I had those conditions



    Is there anyone here who wouldn't try to hold onto their entitlements?

    Most people who complain about perks like these, are those who don't have them. Hell yeah I'd try keep the perks, 70 days off a year would be sweet. Fair play to them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,000 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    More importantly: why is FÁS being re-branded?

    Given the levels of corruption and incompetence within the organisation were utterly endemic, surely it'd make far more sense to have scrapped it, made all staff redundant and started again with a white sheet of paper?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    mikemac wrote: »
    Good for them, I wish I had those conditions



    Is there anyone here who wouldn't try to hold onto their entitlements?

    These people are making Zero improvements in the departments. The rebranding is a bloody farce. The whole thing should be shut down, let alone 'holding onto their holiday entitlements'.

    They should be more concerned with making the improvements that were asked of them. What people cant see and its plain as day this sh&%e is unsustainable and its all going to come crashing right down..... We'll see where their poxy holiday entitlements are then wont we.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    FatherLen wrote: »
    yeah rabble rabble rabble what dont you get???

    Well I get the fact that your statement is idiotic. is that fair ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Fago! wrote: »
    Most people who complain about perks like these, are those who don't have them. Hell yeah I'd try keep the perks, 70 days off a year would be sweet. Fair play to them.

    NO mate, most people who complain about perks like these are the Stupid idiots paying for them. Why is my money being poured into this black hole? that is FAS or rebranded lightbulb manufacturer....... It should be going to front line services not this sh**e. When was the last time you were in an A&E ??


    Your just making the usual 'cool' comments as this is after hours...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭FatherLen


    listermint wrote: »
    Well I get the fact that your statement is idiotic. is that fair ?
    it is actually a joke taken from south park that when a large amount of people talk about the same thing at once, that they sound like "rabble rabble rabble". i was just joining in on you folks talking about the recession. I though it made as much sense as most of the posts about the recession, so i stand by it. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    FatherLen wrote: »
    it is actually a joke taken from south park that when a large amount of people talk about the same thing at once, that they sound like "rabble rabble rabble". i was just joining in on you folks talking about the recession. I though it made as much sense as most of the posts about the recession, so i stand by it. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

    Ive watched South Park since its inception.... I do have a concept of what the joke is about but it still makes your comments nonsense to the discussion.


    Why do you think this practice as directed to in the first post is acceptable? or do you ? discuss......


    Cool answer ?? rabble rabble rabble... arrrghh im sooo coooll yaaarrrrrrr


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭danniemcq


    Fago! wrote: »
    Most people who complain about perks like these, are those who don't have them. Hell yeah I'd try keep the perks, 70 days off a year would be sweet. Fair play to them.

    so far this year at work i've lost paid sick leave for the first 3 days we had off, yeah we complained but you know what we accepted it because we were the exception and hell if its whats needed to keep costs down and keep me in a job then fine.

    we've also been hit with extra tax and crap meaning less take home pay AND had a pay freeze for 2 years.

    we accepted it (with complaints yes) but again if it means i stay in work then so be it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭bijapos


    First of all, its 44 days, the other 26 are statutory holidays, so 88 in total. Even 1 day would be a disgrace.

    Internal correspondence obtained by the Irish Independent reveals efforts were made last month by FAS management to scrap the scheme.

    However, management were forced to reinstate it just weeks later. Unions took the issue to the Labour Relations Commission and have since sought a hearing at the Labour Court............................................SIPTU FAS branch organiser Brendan O'Brien said that the union was open to a "buyout" of the pre-retirement entitlements.

    An this is why from being an active member of a trade union in Germany that I have come to despise the unions here. The unions were one of the few groups that could have organised mass protests against government corruption and incompetence over the past few years but they decide to do **** all about that but at the same time believe that a sytem like the above is worth retaining. Wasters the lot of them.

    Fago! wrote: »
    Most people who complain about perks like these, are those who don't have them. Hell yeah I'd try keep the perks, 70 days off a year would be sweet. Fair play to them.

    Yeah sure, fair play to any cnut in this country who makes things more difficult for the taxpayer :rolleyes:. If you think your taxes are well spent on giving soemone 44 extra days off for sitting on their arse then you've no right ever complaining about how the government spends our taxes or indeed how our taxes are raised.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,037 ✭✭✭Plazaman


    I blame Anglo Irish Bank and Fianna Fail who drove this country into the ground and greedy developers who allowed the 70 day FAS leave to continue whilst Bertie looked on. And I blame that politician with the beard, Ming..... no the other one....Joan Burton, she has a lot to answer for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭FatherLen


    listermint wrote: »
    Ive watched South Park since its inception.... I do have a concept of what the joke is about but it still makes your comments nonsense to the discussion.


    Why do you think this practice as directed to in the first post is acceptable? or do you ? discuss......


    Cool answer ?? rabble rabble rabble... arrrghh im sooo coooll yaaarrrrrrr
    i am so so sorry you feel this way.
    i will leave you in peace to your doom and gloom.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Smoke 'em if you got 'em.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭Fago!


    listermint wrote: »
    NO mate, most people who complain about perks like these are the Stupid idiots paying for them. Why is my money being poured into this black hole? that is FAS or rebranded lightbulb manufacturer....... It should be going to front line services not this sh**e. When was the last time you were in an A&E ??


    Your just making the usual 'cool' comments as this is after hours...

    No I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth boy.

    People are more jealous than they are outraged by things like this. I am anyway. Not saying they're not outraged, but if the tables were turned they'd sing a different tune. Can you honestly say you wouldn't try hang onto those perks if you were them, or blame them for trying to hold onto their annual days off?

    Fair enough fas is useless, but if I was a fas employee, I'd do the exact same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    FatherLen wrote: »
    i am so so sorry you feel this way.
    i will leave you in peace to your doom and gloom.

    I live a highly happy life, Im employed, i have friends, I enjoy it to the max.

    this leaves me with the spare time to look in destain as my money is wasted down into a deep abyss of incompetence instead of providing the actual services that i would expect from this state.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    Guill wrote: »
    Why didn't you complain during the boom?

    was this info public during the boom? NO
    was this perk justifiable during the boom? NO

    another legacy of Bertie's shambles


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Fago! wrote: »
    No I'm not. Don't put words in my mouth boy.

    People are more jealous than they are outraged by things like this. I am anyway. Not saying they're not outraged, but if the tables were turned they'd sing a different tune. Can you honestly say you wouldn't try hang onto those perks if you were them, or blame them for trying to hold onto their annual days off?

    Fair enough fas is useless, but if I was a fas employee, I'd do the exact same.

    Where are you getting that crap from?? Im not jealous in the slightest. Im bloody well angry that my money is not being spent correctly. You still didnt answer my A&E question?

    Why the hell in are we paying some tool administrator money to bed into his fat pension when there are over crowded A&E departments 25 beds deep every night? Why? When was the last time you were in Tallaght Hospital? Never ?


    And dont call me boy! are you being racist or are you pretending to be from cork?


  • Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Zelda Old-fashioned Rumba


    can someone put up the link


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭Fago!


    listermint wrote: »
    Where are you getting that crap from?? Im not jealous in the slightest. Im bloody well angry that my money is not being spent correctly. You still didnt answer my A&E question?

    Why the hell in are we paying some tool administrator money to bed into his fat pension when there are over crowded A&E departments 25 beds deep every night? Why? When was the last time you were in Tallaght Hospital? Never ?


    And dont call me boy! are you being racist or are you pretending to be from cork?

    Why would anyone pretend to be from cork :pac:

    sorry, I was in a&e bout 3 or 4 weeks ago for a knee injury.

    Fair enough there are far better things to spend the money on .e.g. hospitals and nurses etc. i'm not in anyway disagreeing with ya there dude, but my point is that these fas ****ers couldn't care who pays for these things. and if i was them, i wouldn't either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    listermint wrote: »
    Where are you getting that crap from?? Im not jealous in the slightest. Im bloody well angry that my money is not being spent correctly. You still didnt answer my A&E question?

    Why the hell in are we paying some tool administrator money to bed into his fat pension when there are over crowded A&E departments 25 beds deep every night? Why? When was the last time you were in Tallaght Hospital? Never ?


    And dont call me boy! are you being racist or are you pretending to be from cork?

    Completely off topic, but how is calling someone boy racist? Did I miss a memo, or something?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Fago! wrote: »
    Why would anyone pretend to be from cork :pac:

    sorry, I was in a&e bout 3 or 4 weeks ago for a knee injury.

    Fair enough there are far better things to spend the money on .e.g. hospitals and nurses etc. i'm not in anyway disagreeing with ya there dude, but my point is that these fas ****ers couldn't care who pays for these things. and if i was them, i wouldn't either.

    And thats my point, They couldnt care less. The fact that they are allowed to have that attitude in the first place is a problem.

    If i waltzed around my job with that attitude id be gone before you could say 'Listermint i need to see you in my office'


    This agency needs to be closed - permanently.


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