has anyone here ever seen a funeral of a suicide casualty?

KilOit · 14-07-2011 08:38PM

Nothing to add, but was great to read everyone's account of people that commited suicide, very sad, but everyone should be able to talk about these things without sweeping it under the carpet, which seems to be the done thing in Irish society.

RachaelVO · 14-07-2011 08:45PM

hondasam wrote: »

Not if it's a private funeral.

why do a lot of people attend the funeral of a person who takes their own life?

The people who are left behind will need their friends and family, even if it is to tell them dumb jokes at the wake afterwards. Having people who care about you at any funeral is a comfort, at a suicide when people pay their respects it can be both a huge comfort and distraction for the grieving family!

Why should the family have a private funeral anyway? Just because it's a suicide? Should that be like when people committed suicide weren't allowed to be buried in consecrated ground?

Fandango · 14-07-2011 08:52PM

RachaelVO wrote: »

I just took the time to read that, that's got to be the saddest letter I have ever read. That actually made me cry, I had tears rolling down my face reading that.

I have to admit though, I feel a bit of anger, not towards Bill Zeller, but to the fact that his life was let get so dark so very young. To the point where suicide was the only option he thought he had.

Tragic, truly very tragic!

Just saw this thread on the main boards page and decided to have a look. Read that letter also and googled to see who he was. Very sad letter and seeing his face on wiki makes it even worse. If only he had taken a chance and said all that to someone maybe they may have been able to help.

This "selfish or not" arguement tho. Calling it a selfish act isnt saying that the person is doing it without a care for others or to hurt/punish others. Something is selfish if you feel the pro's for you outweighing the con's for others. Some suicide victims feel the pro's are on both sides as they think they are freeing their family/friends of their personal problems (which of course they are not) but most know they are leaving behind alot of pain for people so technically it is a selfish act. It doesnt mean the victim is a monster or anything like it. They are simply a person who isnt thinking straight and feels they cannot deal with anymore. While suicide can be described as a selfish act also, like the letter above, many people who do end up taking their own lives struggle for a long time as they do not want to have their loved ones dealing with their death which you have to say is selfless.

Its a very sensitive subject obviously and at the start i was thinking "how could anyone call it a selfish act??". On reflection, calling it a selfish act is not saying the victim is a selfish person. A selfish person is someone who commits many selfish acts to benefit themselves. A suicide victim is someone who commits one act that, in their mind, benifits them while knowing it will leave suffering behind altho of course there are many who feel nobody will care when they go which is never the case. The difference from other selfish acts however is that they arent doing it to get ahead. They do it because they feel the pain they endure is less than the pain they are leaving behind. So my 2 cents anyway, wouldnt blame people for seeing it as a selfish act but you cant say a person is selfish for doing it. Its just a huge pity that people go to those lengths when im sure their family and friends would go above and beyond to help them if they had spoken to them about it.

PS. Hope that all makes sense.

Fandango · 14-07-2011 08:54PM

RachaelVO wrote: »

Why should the family have a private funeral anyway? Just because it's a suicide? Should that be like when people committed suicide weren't allowed to be buried in consecrated ground?

Agree. Things like that would only further the stigma of depression and suicidal thoughts and make sufferers less willing to talk about it.

Ken. · 14-07-2011 09:03PM

I've been to 4 for school friend's since i finished. 2 of them were within 10 days of each other. The first one a guy hung himself cause his missus was cheating with his best mate. Then a week later the best mate couldn't stand the guilt and hung himself. Very sad times.

RachaelVO · 14-07-2011 09:33PM

Fandango wrote: »

Agree. Things like that would only further the stigma of depression and suicidal thoughts and make sufferers less willing to talk about it.

Yup! It needs more publicity not less! The more dominant a subject it is, the more people will know where to go and what to do to get help!

Dangerous Man · 14-07-2011 09:52PM

In answer to the OP unfortunately yes. Beyond tragic.

nlgbbbblth · 14-07-2011 10:22PM

KilOit wrote: »

Nothing to add, but was great to read everyone's account of people that commited suicide, very sad, but everyone should be able to talk about these things without sweeping it under the carpet, which seems to be the done thing in Irish society.

Definitely swept under the carpet.

I've been to five such funerals. Four of them were "don't mention the way he / she died" type ceremonies. Really annoying when people will not acknowledge suicide.

MardiB · 14-07-2011 10:34PM

I guy I work with was found dead today. I don't want to give any details but suffice to say he was a great lad, full of promise and always so lovely to everybody. He will be sadly missed and my heart goes out to his family. If only we had known how he must of been suffering. He hid his pain so well. Nobody should have to feel so trapped and hopeless as he must have been.

midlandsmissus · 14-07-2011 11:13PM

It is a selfish act, but you don't realise that until you're thinking rationally. The suicidal person is not rational, so therefore not commiting a selfish act? Sound of mind etc. As a person who suffered a singular horrific attack earlier this year, I attempted suicide two months ago. I'm trying to articulate it into words. At the time I wasn't thinking of others: I briefly thought of their pain, but to me stopping my own pain was more important. Not more important, that's the wrong phrase, but more that the intensity of the pain blocked out everything else. It is now, that I am thinking rationally, that I can see that IT is selfish and the destruction it caused to my family. My poor mother had to rush me to hospital crying, while I drifted in and out of conciousness, saying 'please don't leave me, please don't leave me'. I was such in the grips of depression that when I woke up in the hospital I was angry and depressed at still being here. I still wasn't thinking of her. It's only now that Im finally on the path to recovery that I can see the pain I caused others, that I was selfish, and that would stop me doing it again. So to sum up, I think suicide is selfish, but the depressed person needs to come to this understanding themself as they are not thinking straight at the time. Its interesting to see other post suicide attempters on here now able to see the selfish side like myself, thanks for sharing your story

.

Bella mamma · 14-07-2011 11:57PM

Orando Broom wrote: »

A lot of young people, unfortunately. Only one suicide. Tragic stuff and it is NEVER the answer. no matter how bad a person thinks their situation is, they are wrong. It's not that bad. All these situations are retrievable. Unfortunately only the true extent of how loved these people really are becomes apparent at a funeral.

I am the son of an Undertaker and I can tell each and everyone of you that Suicide solves absolutely nothing and only demolishes and destroys dozens of lives, needlessly. If any of you guys even remotely feel like suicide is an answer I can tell you categorically it is not. It is a selfish mean act that destroys more than just one life. ALWAYS talk to someone about what bothers you. I'm telling you it's NEVER that bad. EVER. I can only beg that people do that.

Shocking comment.

What are your thoughts on mental illness?
What do you know about mental illness?

Whispered · 15-07-2011 12:10AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

When you see how many people are crushed, destroyed by it you'd fücking agree. So stick your roll eyes where the sun don't shine.

I've lived through the devestation it causes, I've seen how many people are crushed and I don't agree. To say it's selfish shows a lack of understanding of the mindset of suicidal people. Most people don't do it through selfishness, rather the opposite. When you think you're nothing but a drain on the people around you, that they would be better off without you around, when you feel as if you bring nothing to your family but hardship - ending your life is, in it's own twisted way, the ONLY way you can see to stop yourself being a burden.

****ed up logic to be sure - but not selfish.

Everything else in your post I agree with.

Dudess · 15-07-2011 12:28AM

I know what people mean about it being selfish in the basic sense - as in, doing something that negatively affects others. But I still disagree with that assessment because when the pain is so crippling that a person just cannot carry on and they see no light at the end of the tunnel, it's desperation, not heartless and callous disregard for those left behind.

SarahBeep! · 15-07-2011 02:15AM

More than once unfortunately. It's differnt to other funerals. Nobody sits in the pub or stands outside the funeral home or church and is able to say 'At least they had a long happy life.' You don't stand around and talk about memories you have of that person or tell funny stories. It's a different kind of death. The person in the coffin isn't the only person who has suffered from suicide and for those of us who are left behind, you never fully recover.

killwill · 15-07-2011 02:28AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

When you see how many people are crushed, destroyed by it you'd fücking agree. So stick your roll eyes where the sun don't shine.

I'll refrain from really expressing my true feelings for you for fear of a ban.

If anyone thought about who they leave behind and the emotional wreckage left they might think twice about going through with it.

You have to call a spade a spade.

If someone is going through a period of their life where for whatever reason they are so depressed they feel the only way out is to kill themselves, is not selfishness, it is desperation.

KathleenMcCabe · 15-07-2011 02:29AM

yes.
he was my cousin, best friend and like a brother to me. 13 years ago.
the whole thing had a profound effect on me and took me years to be able to live with it.

Saila · 15-07-2011 02:36AM

I have

guitarzero · 15-07-2011 02:43AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

A lot of young people, unfortunately. Only one suicide. Tragic stuff and it is NEVER the answer. no matter how bad a person thinks their situation is, they are wrong. It's not that bad. All these situations are retrievable. Unfortunately only the true extent of how loved these people really are becomes apparent at a funeral.

I am the son of an Undertaker and I can tell each and everyone of you that Suicide solves absolutely nothing and only demolishes and destroys dozens of lives, needlessly. If any of you guys even remotely feel like suicide is an answer I can tell you categorically it is not. It is a selfish mean act that destroys more than just one life. ALWAYS talk to someone about what bothers you. I'm telling you it's NEVER that bad. EVER. I can only beg that people do that.

I'd somewhat disagree there. Its not a selfish act 1stly. When someones suicidal it is their own pain and to take such a leap makes 'selfish' so iirelavant. Yes, they can talk, get help, which I advocate and would love to think that it can help everyone. But often its entirely theirs. Often the burden is beyond what this reality can ease, whether its physical or emotional. To stay alive for other peoples well being is perhaps shelfish on the others part. But there are cases where it seems like the only way out, to them, and that should be respected. I think one has to be suicidal to comment on the ethics or else its just being selfish. Our ideas of what it means to live are brought into question.
A suicide can cause people to listen to one another, to appreciate loved ones more and learn to value their experience. But also it can break people to realize that those who you thought cared dont care that much. With suicide the most important thing is understanding, if this cant be established then the burden remains and can eventually destroy lives.

moneyman · 15-07-2011 03:01AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

A lot of young people, unfortunately. Only one suicide. Tragic stuff and it is NEVER the answer. no matter how bad a person thinks their situation is, they are wrong. It's not that bad. All these situations are retrievable. Unfortunately only the true extent of how loved these people really are becomes apparent at a funeral.

I am the son of an Undertaker and I can tell each and everyone of you that Suicide solves absolutely nothing and only demolishes and destroys dozens of lives, needlessly. If any of you guys even remotely feel like suicide is an answer I can tell you categorically it is not. It is a selfish mean act that destroys more than just one life. ALWAYS talk to someone about what bothers you. I'm telling you it's NEVER that bad. EVER. I can only beg that people do that.

You were going so well until you labelled it a "selfish mean act".

moneyman · 15-07-2011 03:07AM

Orando Broom wrote: »

When you see how many people are crushed, destroyed by it you'd fücking agree. So stick your roll eyes where the sun don't shine.

I'll refrain from really expressing my true feelings for you for fear of a ban.

If anyone thought about who they leave behind and the emotional wreckage left they might think twice about going through with it.

You have to call a spade a spade.

What a load of shite. No one is disputing the pain it causes to family and relatives. What you obviously can't comprehend is the sheer mental anguish and suffering a person must be going through to end their own life. You can continue with your ignorant bravado, pretending you understand just how much pain suicidal people go through, but it doesn't make you right.

Yes, it's absolutely dreadful for the friends and family, but that in no way makes it a selfish act. Some people see suicide as the only escape.Can you imagine just how fcuking awful you'd have to feel to believe that, and then carry through with the act? So once again, another :rolleyes: to you.

Hank Scorpio · 15-07-2011 04:01AM

seeing it first hand at the moment. someone who was a teacher and fairly outgoing.

all this person does now is sit in a corner all day pretending to read things, like atlas's etc and never winches to look at the newspaper, i dont understand it. never watches tv, is afraid to answer the phone/door and can barely swing a sentence together. once i seen this person go on a computer and just stare at the google homepage for an hour, whenever someone entered the room this person pretended to be looking at something.

the same person spent there life savings living in a hotel for months away from home never leaving the hotel, just sitting there all day doing nothing while the family were worried sick trying to get this person home.

trying to give this person support is impossible, this person makes up excuses and just rejects it. Thank christ there is some sort of interaction going on with family members.

this thread has really opened my eyes up now and im really going to try my best to give the help to this person that they need

its really impossible to explain the mindset of someone with bad depression, they're basically just so out of touch with existence and the real world, have zero interests in anything, and are frightened to interact with other people

seen alot of ignorance in this thread btw, but the majority have been great posts

DEFTLEFTHAND · 15-07-2011 04:39AM

You describe it very well nuxxx, iv also witnessed this behaviour first hand. The person in question became totally numb to any emotions , they could not hold concentration on anything and wanted to be alone at all times. It was almost as if the constant turmoil in their mind had rendered them emotionally paralyzed. A dangerous state for any person to be in as they've lost all rationale at that point.

Fart · 15-07-2011 06:09AM

hondasam wrote: »

I do feel people who commit suicide should have quieter funerals. It's not something to be glorified and it gives the wrong impression to other vulnerable people.

That's a very good point actually.

4zn76tysfajdxp · 15-07-2011 06:09AM

Wow, strobe, that was a fantastic post.

Whispered · 15-07-2011 07:07AM

Marissa Black Sinusitis wrote: »

Wow, strobe, that was a fantastic post.

Really was - very brave too. It's always a jolt to the system to hear something like that. You think you understand, try your best to understand but really unless you've been through it yourself you've no idea do you.

Strobe if you were faced with a friend who was contemplating suicide, how would you approach it?

I'm sobbing here - I'm so glad you're ok, but I suppose hearing of those who have come through it makes me feel like my friends death is all the more tragic.

Elliemental · 15-07-2011 07:16AM

Yes, I have. The only thing that was different was that the father of the victim seemed to be taking photographs of everyone who showed up. That struck me as... odd. I guess on top of the "normal" grief, there was a lot of hurt, and confusion.

Dravokivich · 15-07-2011 09:20AM

I've never been to a funeral of someone who's commited suicide, as no-one I'm personally associated with has done it. But there's been a lot of it where I've grown up. Suicide isn't just a result of "depression," or "stress." There was 1 man who lived on my road who commited suicide because of shame. He had gotten into a heated arguement with his wife and she left him with their kids. She came back to the house a couple of days later to see how he was and try patch things up (they were normally fairly quiet so I recon the fight was a once off). She had opened the door and found him hanging from the light fixture on the landing.

Sometimes it's very hard to say sorry.

guitarzero · 15-07-2011 12:16PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

What an uplifting thread.

What a ridiculous comment. No one forces anyone to enter a thread. I'm sure you saw the title and yet you still come in with a low grade sarcastic comment, why bother?

kingelmo · 15-07-2011 12:53PM

Very selfish comments by alot of people, obviously it hasnt effeced ye.

For the people it has effected, its like someone rips your heart out of your chest, the feeling of emptyness and unanswered questions is unbareable.

Thats all iv to say its too hard to talk about it,especially to people who dont understand

mw9121970 · 02-08-2011 01:38PM

hondasam wrote: »

The funeral of a person who commits suicide is no different to someone who dies in a car crash.

everyone reacts differently to death, of course some people measure grief in how much crying is done.

I do feel people who commit suicide should have quieter funerals. It's not something to be glorified and it gives the wrong impression to other vulnerable people.

This post puzzles me - how can you have a quieter funeral. My brother took his own life recently, his funeral was attended by a huge number of people who showed massive support to us. They certainly did not glorify sucide.

has anyone here ever seen a funeral of a suicide casualty?

Comments