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Survey reveals a 44% pay gap between public and private sector

1…34689…19

Comments

  • #152
    damino
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭damino


    Employee breakdown, large multinationals and companies consist of, with the top with Senior Managers, bottom consisting of the lowest paid. Annual leave based on service. So employee breakdown symbol would be a triangle.
    Public Sector/Civil Service Recruitment over the past 12 years employee recruitment consisting of little recruitment at the bottom, middle management an increase of between 100% and 150% with senior management seeing a recruitment increase of up to 400%. Facts were provided by the CSO. Does not make sense, more recruitment at middle and senior positions. Also the shocking horror is the higher the grade the more annual leave they get. Lower grades consist mainly of women and highest grades predominantly men, just like out political landscape. No wonder there is a huge budget deficit.

    Only semi-state employees never received a pay cut, actually they received a pay rise of over 3%.


  • #153
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    Welease wrote: »
    Increments are posted... but as I am sure you are well aware.. a breakdown of increments implemented across PS sectors is not readily available otherwise you would have posted it with glee and an appropriate comment..

    But you didn't... Is it unfair to assume you may have made up the actual numbers? (somewhat ironic considering you have an issue with the Indo for doing the same..)

    I said on average. Some get more and some get less. I still believe that on average staff get about 10. Perhaps 7 is a little low. A few examples.

    Social Worker
    35,945 - 37,841 - 39,807 - 41,770 - 43,716 - 45,707 - 47,668 - 49,173 - 50,679 - 51,6791

    Audiologist
    33,005 - 34,174 - 35,136 - 36,103 - 37,111 - 38,106 - 39,064 - 39,8301

    Staff Nurse (including registered midwife, registered sick children's nurse, registered mental handicap nurse)
    30,234 - 31,710 - 33,189 - 34,666 - 36,137 - 37,408 - 38,683 - 39,952 - 41,222 - 42,469 - 43,8001

    Public Health Nurse
    45,857 - 46,634 - 47,297 - 48,342 - 49,544 - 50,708 - 51,881 - 53,199 - 54,426

    Pharmaceutical Technician
    34,768 - 35,688 - 36,607 - 37,526 - 38,446 - 39,365 - 40,284 - 41,204


  • #154
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    Vizzy wrote: »
    Welease, can you point me to one of these jobs where you go from €30,904 to €59,359 in one year ( I'd love one of these jobs)or is this only from 2009 to now,cos if it is I don't think I'd be bothered !:)

    In all seriousness. Noone has claimed increased within one year..

    BUT! :)


    Sollar has laid out an argument that pay increases within a defined pay scale are not pay rises... So going from ~30K to 59K is not a pay rise becuase it is within contractual agreements... therefore I profer the obvious conclusion that contrary to many claims on here of PS pay cuts... there have been no PS pay cuts.. becuase all reductions have been within the PS pay scales (including the redefined pay scales)..

    Am I wrong to agree with Sollar? ;)


  • #155
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    Welease wrote: »
    250m according to Noonan.. but yet people are pissing and moaning about a Property Tax which will raise 160m...

    Is that gross or net... can you provide a link please??:D


  • #156
    Stavro Mueller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭Stavro Mueller


    Run this by me again :confused:


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  • #157
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    sollar wrote: »
    I said on average. Some get more and some get less. I still believe that on average staff get about 10. Perhaps 7 is a little low. A few examples.

    Social Worker
    35,945 - 37,841 - 39,807 - 41,770 - 43,716 - 45,707 - 47,668 - 49,173 - 50,679 - 51,6791

    Audiologist
    33,005 - 34,174 - 35,136 - 36,103 - 37,111 - 38,106 - 39,064 - 39,8301

    Staff Nurse (including registered midwife, registered sick children's nurse, registered mental handicap nurse)
    30,234 - 31,710 - 33,189 - 34,666 - 36,137 - 37,408 - 38,683 - 39,952 - 41,222 - 42,469 - 43,8001

    Public Health Nurse
    45,857 - 46,634 - 47,297 - 48,342 - 49,544 - 50,708 - 51,881 - 53,199 - 54,426

    Pharmaceutical Technician
    34,768 - 35,688 - 36,607 - 37,526 - 38,446 - 39,365 - 40,284 - 41,204

    Once again.. thats increment levels.. thats not what you claimed.. (and you know it!)..

    Either provide proof for your claim, or just admit you dont have proof that over 40 years the average PS employee only receives 7-10 increments...

    (I dont think anyone can prove or disprove that claim... but its pure BS to attack the Indo for something and then start doing the exact same thing.. you either have the info or you dont.. and if you don't.. then don't claim it!.. simple as...)


  • #158
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    sollar wrote: »
    Is that gross or net... can you provide a link please??:D

    Increments - http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/05/18/00064.asp

    Property Tax - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0507/1224296378513.html (claim is 180m)


  • #159
    SBWife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭SBWife


    Two pages ago according to Sollar Audiologists had less than 7 incements now again according to Sollar they have 8 :confused:

    Bloody boards' posters are worse than the Sindo.


  • #160
    ardmacha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    This increment thing is a distraction. Of course an increment is a pay rise in that your pay rises. However, this is an increase due to experience not wage inflation. There is plenty of scope for debate on the exact operation of the increment system and a more assessment based system is needed, but it is a separate issue from that of wage inflation (or deflation).

    The point is that this public finance thing requires long term sustainability, it isn't just a panic for a few months. You can fiddle around with promotions etc in the short term, but it is tinkering with the problem rather than solving it.


  • #161
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    SBWife wrote: »
    Two pages ago according to Sollar Audiologists had less than 7 incements now again according to Sollar they have 8 :confused:

    Bloody boards' posters are worse than the Sindo.

    1 of a difference hardly way off the mark... its not as if they have 25 :rolleyes:


    Isn't this how all these PS threads end up..... off on a tangent over a petty squabble :D


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  • #162
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    Welease wrote: »
    Increments - http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2011/05/18/00064.asp

    Property Tax - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0507/1224296378513.html (claim is 180m)

    That still doesn't clarify if that is gross or net. It makes a difference... a big difference.


  • #163
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    ardmacha wrote: »
    This increment thing is a distraction. but it is a separate issue from that of wage inflation (or deflation)..

    Good point.


  • #164
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    ardmacha wrote: »
    This increment thing is a distraction. Of course an increment is a pay rise in that your pay rises. However, this is an increase due to experience not wage inflation. There is plenty of scope for debate on the exact operation of the increment system and a more assessment based system is needed, but it is a separate issue from that of wage inflation (or deflation).

    The point is that this public finance thing requires long term sustainability, it isn't just a panic for a few months. You can fiddle around with promotions etc in the short term, but it is tinkering with the problem rather than solving it.

    And solving the problem... is believing that increments costing ~250 million is a distraction?

    It's not a distraction.. its part of the core problem of spiraling costs, lack of meritocracy, union interferance, sectorial jobs for life, and as we have seen here... the belief there merely turning up for work year after year should mean considerable wage increases irrespective of performance or results..

    It's not a distraction.. it's exactly what the problem is...


  • #165
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    sollar wrote: »
    That still doesn't clarify if that is gross or net. It makes a difference... a big difference.

    Post links to back up your claim.. and stop distracting...

    Either you want to make a serious point.. or....


  • #166
    OMD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    sollar wrote: »
    Welease wrote: »
    It's nothing to do with salary scales...

    You were stating, that over a 40 year period the average PS employee would only receive between 7 and 10 increments..

    Given that you are argueing that the Indo etc. continually make up data, you are being asked to demonstrate the analysis and data that has led you to make such a claim..

    Do you have a link to the claim you are making, or a link to the analysis you have done... or are you ... making up this data?

    Payscales prove nothing.. as per my post a couple of pages ago.. if promotions were not possible then that would form the basis of your claim.. however promotions are possible so based on that alone... you claim is false..

    So please link to evidence that PS workers on average only receive between 7-10 increments over a 40 year period.....

    All of the data on increments are in the link provided. There is alot of info in there. I would be copying and pasting for a long time to present it. I'm sorry but i couldn't be bothered doing that.

    But it is not. Almost all civil servants have more than 10 increments even if never promote. Clerical officers have 14. Likewise teachers 18 increments Doctors who never get promoted (almost non existent) have 8. Nurses have 11. Gardai have 11 increments.remember all these are for people who never once get promoted. If promoted at any stage of your 40 year career you may well be entitled to further increments. So where do you get the figures that the average is between 7-10?


  • #167
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,559 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    From what i think (and I may be wrong) my pay for CO €35,515 when I will get on my last increment is my pay for a clerical officer but I dont get it at the start only by experience so in that instance it is not a pay rise but a step in getting my pay for being a CO


  • #168
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    Welease wrote: »
    Post links to back up your claim.. and stop distracting...

    Either you want to make a serious point.. or....

    Sorry but what is not serious about wanting to know what Noonan probably already knows. And that is what would actually be saved by cutting increments. My guess is it wouldn't be 250 million.


  • #169
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,559 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Welease wrote: »
    No, I am responding to a poster (sollar) who claims (as quoted) that a pay rise is not a payrise until the top of the pay band has been hit.. ergo.. a paycut is not a pay cut until the lower band has been exceeded..

    If you have an issue with that logic, then you are welcome to address his initial post.. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73576326&postcount=23

    my apologies I should read the other posts. But as a stand alone comment I would stand by what I wrote


  • #170
    OMD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    sollar wrote: »
    Staff Nurse (including registered midwife, registered sick children's nurse, registered mental handicap nurse)
    30,234 - 31,710 - 33,189 - 34,666 - 36,137 - 37,408 - 38,683 - 39,952 - 41,222 - 42,469 - 43,8001

    Public Health Nurse
    45,857 - 46,634 - 47,297 - 48,342 - 49,544 - 50,708 - 51,881 - 53,199 - 54,426
    To be a public health nurse you must first be a staff nurse. So the public health nurse may have had 19 increments


  • #171
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    sollar wrote: »
    Sorry but what is not serious about wanting to know what Noonan probably already knows. And that is what would actually be saved by cutting increments. My guess is it wouldn't be 250 million.


    So??? Your guess is based on what... so far you have provided 0 links to relevant information....

    I provided the links you requested...

    Why don't you do likewise...? It's within the charter for me to request them... and as you seem to have a problem with the Indo's reporting.. One can only assume you actually have a link to your counter claims? (despite you dodging numerous requests)..


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  • #172
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    Welease wrote: »
    So??? Your guess is based on what... so far you have provided 0 links to relevant information....

    I provided the links you requested...

    .

    No you didn't i asked for a link to show if it was gross or net. I'm well aware of the 250million figure. I wanted to know if it was gross or net.

    You could have said you don't have that detail.


  • #173
    OMD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭OMD


    sollar wrote: »
    Welease wrote: »
    So??? Your guess is based on what... so far you have provided 0 links to relevant information....

    I provided the links you requested...

    .

    No you didn't i asked for a link to show if it was gross or net. I'm well aware of the 250million figure. I wanted to know if it was gross or net.

    You could have said you don't have that detail.
    Oh for gods sake you have been messing about for ages. Your comment has been shown to be nonsense yet you continue.


  • #174
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    sollar wrote: »
    No you didn't i asked for a link to show if it was gross or net. I'm well aware of the 250million figure. I wanted to know if it was gross or net.

    You could have said you don't have that detail.

    I never claimed a gross or net figure... which is why i never made such a statement (but then again. you, me and everyone else reading this drivel knows you cant back up your claims)...

    You on the other hand have made several claims... So once again.... please provide some links..


  • #175
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    OMD wrote: »
    Oh for gods sake you have been messing about for ages. Your comment has been shown to be nonsense yet you continue.

    I don't know what the big deal is. Increments are going nowhere anyway.


  • #176
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    sollar wrote: »
    I don't know what the big deal is. Increments are going nowhere anyway.

    /shrug... you are the one who seemed to have a problem with BS stories...
    sollar wrote: »
    Nobody in the public service has received a pay rise in the last 4 years. We have all had our pay cut. Anything else is just spin and the Sunday Indpendant love spin.

    I guess it's just a matter of who's spinning the BS.......


  • #177
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    Welease wrote: »
    /shrug... you are the one who seemed to have a problem with BS stories...



    I guess it's just a matter of who's spinning the BS.......

    I'm a mere mortal posting on a discussion forum. They are a so called reputable newspaper supposedly bound by some sort of journalistic code.


  • #178
    Stavro Mueller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭Stavro Mueller


    An increment is a pay rise but what a public servant is gaining from an increment these days is negligible in comparison to what has been taken away in pay cuts and the pension levy.


  • #179
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    sollar wrote: »
    I'm a mere mortal posting on a discussion forum. They are a so called reputable newspaper supposedly bound by some sort of journalistic code.

    Why is a journalistic code relevant? This is not the print/internet media..

    You can either back up the claims you make... or as you were accused of (and seemed to have an issue with).. you cant..

    In this case.. it's apparent.. you can't..

    End of story.


  • #180
    Welease
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    cymbaline wrote: »
    An increment is a pay rise but what a public servant is gaining from an increment these days is negligible in comparison to what has been taken away in pay cuts and the pension levy.

    /shrug
    it's (accroding to Noonan) costing the exchequer about €250m..

    If it's that negligble.. I assume the unions would have no issue with it being stopped?


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  • #181
    Stavro Mueller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,673 ✭✭✭Stavro Mueller


    I'm sure they will be at some stage. It's a very small step against the tide of money going in the other direction from my pay packet. Anyway, with the increased taxes that are coming my way and your way, the money won't be long about returning to the central coffers.


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