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David Norris for President....would you vote for him?

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Comments

  • #2552
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    Evaex wrote: »
    It was on the first page of reference AND on the first page of the reference with the harp and Seanad Eireann.
    There was 3 letters - One going "Here's a reference letter, hope it helps" One was a reference letter. The third was a plea for leniency.

    Only the first 2 were on official paper. If I ask my boss, or one of my lecturers for a character reference, it comes with an official letterhead. Providing a chareacter reference for a friend in his official capacity is not an abuse of position. If the 3rd letter had been on official stationary, it would be a very different matter.


  • #2553
    Side Show Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Side Show Bob


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    I'm sorry, did I defend the actions? Did I say I think what happened was right?

    No. I said that people who may have been pro-Norris have made their feelings known pages back and have no need to comment again until more comes or or new information or statements are made.

    I think even Biggins has said that this could cost Norris his vote, and it's looking like it will cost him mine too. I'm not defending what happened. But what do you want? The people who were pro-Norris to copy/paste their comments every give minutes because someone else has come into the topic, not bothered to read back and see what has already been said, and basically spam the topic?

    People have posted their disappointments and denouncements of Norris. That's the end of it until something new comes out or is said.

    I'm sorry but my intentions are not to offend you or any pro Norris supporters, but this is not an accusation against the senator, these are his own words, his opinions, and most importantly his arrogance, he knew bloody well this was coming and he truly believed he could handle it with the media, that is what people who accept and believe that the Rape of a young boy is acceptable.

    The question is not if Norris is a puff the question is does our elected representave and senator believe that Statutory Rape is Acceptable,

    If he were straight and wrote the same letter defending a straight friend for having sex with a 15 year old girl in the same country would it be any better,


  • #2554
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    Raphael wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, where's the number 15 coming from for the kids age? Haven't seen any statement about it, just that he was below the age of consent, which was 18 for homosexual activity at the time.

    it was reported in The Herald and The Sun, make what you want of those as reliable sources...
    Also, very glad to see that the official letter head wasn't used for the letter pleaing leniency, just the character reference.

    he didn't hold back in letting them know where he stood in Irish political and academic life:


  • #2555
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Raphael wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, where's the number 15 coming from for the kids age? Haven't seen any statement about it, just that he was below the age of consent, which was 18 for homosexual activity at the time.

    Also, very glad to see that the official letter head wasn't used for the letter pleaing leniency, just the character reference.

    He described his former partner's conviction for the statutory rape of a 15-year-old boy as a 'shocking and painful experience' and said he suffered 'guilt by association' but that it had been 'many people's fate to love people who have defects.'

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html


  • #2556
    end a eknny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭end a eknny


    i would love to have a gay, british, cack spouting leprechaun representing us at home and abroad


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  • #2557
    suspectdevice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭suspectdevice


    Raphael wrote: »
    There was 3 letters - One going "Here's a reference letter, hope it helps" One was a reference letter. The third was a plea for leniency.

    Only the first 2 were on official paper. If I ask my boss, or one of my lecturers for a character reference, it comes with an official letterhead. Providing a chareacter reference for a friend in his official capacity is not an abuse of position. If the 3rd letter had been on official stationary, it would be a very different matter.

    3 letters. two on official letterhead. how can you expect any recipient not to treat the third in the same light?

    and if that was not his intention and he didn't understand the implications then he should apologise for being stupid and disappear


  • #2558
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    Absurdum wrote: »
    Raphael wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, where's the number 15 coming from for the kids age? Haven't seen any statement about it, just that he was below the age of consent, which was 18 for homosexual activity at the time.

    it was reported in The Herald and The Sun, make what you want of those as reliable sources...



    he didn't hold back in letting them know where he stood in Irish political and academic life:
    Hm, I'll believe it when I see it in a newspaper. 15 and 17 are very different scenarios indeed.

    He did, that's true, big himself up a bit in the letter. But the difference there is that one is a bit crass, the other is gross abuse of power and an international incident waiting to happen.
    suspectdevice wrote: »
    3 letters. two on official letterhead. how can you expect any recipient not to treat the third in the same light?

    and if that was not his intention and he didn't understand the implications then he should apologise for being stupid and disappear
    The 2 with letterhead were sent to the guys lawyer. The 3rd was addressed directly to the court. It also has a warping in the scan at the centre, probably from a fold, which the other 2 don't have.d - just because they're in the same pdf file on the rte website, doesn't mean they all showed up in the same envelope.


  • #2559
    ILikeBananas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 785 ✭✭✭ILikeBananas


    Part of me is delighted as I backed Micahael D. before he won the Labour nomination when he was 5-1 (he's now 10/11 favourite!).

    It's pretty sickening reading all of the Norris bashers coming out and crowing though.
    I wasn't going to vote for him but I didn't dislike the man and I really respected the way that he kept fighting to stay in the race.

    If nothing else I hope the difficulties that he's faced getting a nomination will force some much needed changes to the way that presidential candidates are nominated.


  • #2560
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,560 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Raphael wrote: »
    There was 3 letters - One going "Here's a reference letter, hope it helps" One was a reference letter. The third was a plea for leniency.

    Only the first 2 were on official paper. If I ask my boss, or one of my lecturers for a character reference, it comes with an official letterhead. Providing a chareacter reference for a friend in his official capacity is not an abuse of position. If the 3rd letter had been on official stationary, it would be a very different matter.


    BUT he did sign the third letter .. Senator, not just David Norris.


  • #2561
    noddyflavin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭noddyflavin


    Nonce-sence!. That's funny. Norris freaks me out. The baldy dude off Dragons Den should get the job for sure...


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  • #2562
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    Raphael wrote: »
    Hm, I'll believe it when I see it in a newspaper. 15 and 17 are very different scenarios indeed.

    http://www.herald.ie/news/fresh-scandal-hits-norris-campaign-as-key-aides-resign-2835827.html
    Senator Norris' former partner was found guilty of having sex with a 15-year-old Palestinian youth in 1992.


  • #2563
    Side Show Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Side Show Bob


    ILikeBananas wrote: »

    It's pretty sickening reading all of the Norris bashers coming out and crowing though.
    I wasn't going to vote for him but I didn't dislike the man and I really respected the way that he kept fighting to stay in the race.

    What bit are you missing here, I voted for Norris in the poll here,

    It's not really Norris bashing, it's having sight of the letter written by the dirty little Cnut!


  • #2564
    General General
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭General General


    Raphael wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, where's the number 15 coming from for the kids age? Haven't seen any statement about it, just that he was below the age of consent, which was 18 for homosexual activity at the time.
    Raphael wrote: »
    Hm, I'll believe it when I see it in a newspaper. 15 and 17 are very different scenarios indeed.

    I don't see how it's that big a difference, frankly... but:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia#Israel
    Raphael wrote: »

    Absurdum: I know it's in the herald and the mail, the post I was quoting said as much. I was making a sarcastic comment on the fact that they're useless, ill-researched rags.


  • #2565
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    Min wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0730/norrisd.html

    And yet that same article also states incorrect information about the file it provides (8 page letter on seanad notepaper). Way to go RTE. Though it does add more weight to the number.

    tayto_lover: It's a title, Doctors don't automatically speak on behalf of their hospital by prefixing it to their name, I don't speak on behalf of UCD by sticking a BSc after mine.

    Absurdum: I know it's in the herald and the mail, the post I was quoting said as much. I was making a sarcastic comment on the fact that they're useless, ill-researched rags. Apologies if that didn't come through, thanks for the link


  • #2566
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    noddyflavin wrote: »
    ...The baldy dude off Dragons Den should get the job for sure...
    You mean this guy?

    http://tinyurl.com/3dkke7o
    PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE Sean Gallagher has denied accusations that he is trying to play down his links to the Fianna Fáil party – saying he has “never, ever been secretive” of his past history with the party.


  • #2567
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    I would have supported Norris up until today, I've met him on a number of occasion and I thought he was a thorough gentleman. I'm completely gutted following today's revelations, I was really looking forward to Norris being president of ireland.
    However, now I think that he should have the good grace to withdraw from the presidential race.


  • #2568
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,560 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Raphael wrote: »
    And yet that same article also states incorrect information about the file it provides (8 page letter on seanad notepaper). Way to go RTE. Though it does add more weight to the number.

    tayto_lover: It's a title, Doctors don't automatically speak on behalf of their hospital by prefixing it to their name, I don't speak on behalf of UCD by sticking a BSc after mine.

    Absurdum: I know it's in the herald and the mail, the post I was quoting said as much. I was making a sarcastic comment on the fact that they're useless, ill-researched rags. Apologies if that didn't come through, thanks for the link

    It does however carry more weight than a plain Mr and was probably intended to do so. He does also mention his position in the letter so i don't think the headed notepaper makes much difference really.


  • #2569
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,047 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Well, he's not going to get the nomination now (although it's interesting that this is all coming out now, how come the Israeli embassy never said anything before?). Probably won't bother voting in the upcoming election now, couldn't be bothered with the rest of them.


  • #2570
    Side Show Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Side Show Bob


    tayto_lover: It's a title, Doctors don't automatically speak on behalf of their hospital by prefixing it to their name, I don't speak on behalf of UCD by sticking a BSc after mine.

    Probably worth mentioning that the letter may not have spoken on behalf of the all of the other senators, however it's crest represents all of us, so look at your payslip and try to figure out who paid for it


  • #2571
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    It absolutely does - the notepaper means that the office is requesting the leniency, what happened was that man who holds the office requesting it. If you can't see the difference between those, then I don't think we're getting anywhere here. =/

    General General: Heh. lulz. I had something earlier that had the age of consent only being lowered to 16 for homosexuals in novermber 2000, I'll try dig you up the reference


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  • #2572
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,444 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    It would have been a travesty for democracy in this country had Norris not got the nomination (prior to these revelations of course), respect to the Norris supporters for getting the campaign as far as they did


  • #2573
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    tayto lover wrote: »
    It does however carry more weight than a plain Mr and was probably intended to do so. He does also mention his position in the letter so i don't think the headed notepaper makes much difference really.


    Yeah even back then he says "have been widely mentioned as a presidential candidate in the forthcoming elections for the presidency of Ireland." and how he worked with Mary Robinson the then current president and how he was elected to the Senate on the first count with the highest vote ever.


  • #2574
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,581 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I caught the headline earlier.

    Is this as simple as his partner having sex with an under age boy?

    If so, that would seem harsh to me, sure it wasn't even him... he can't be responsible for the actions of others.

    Or is there more to it?


  • #2575
    Lady Chatterton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Min wrote: »
    Yeah even back then he says "have been widely mentioned as a presidential candidate in the forthcoming elections for the presidency of Ireland." and how he worked with Mary Robinson the then current president and how he was elected to the Senate on the first count with the highest vote ever.
    I'm so disappointed with this, it seems like a complete abuse of his position :( There is an element of "Do you know who I am" about that particular paragraph.


  • #2576
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    Side Show Bob wrote: »
    Probably worth mentioning that the letter may not have spoken on behalf of the all of the other senators, however it's crest represents all of us, so look at your payslip and try to figure out who paid for it

    That'd be the crest that wasn't on the 3rd letter, yeah?
    Raphael wrote: »
    General General: Heh. lulz. I had something earlier that had the age of consent only being lowered to 16 for homosexuals in novermber 2000, I'll try dig you up the reference

    http://www.france.qrd.org/assocs/ilga/euroletter/84.html#IS

    Best I can find.


  • #2577
    Side Show Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Side Show Bob


    gilberto_eire wrote: »
    I caught the headline earlier.

    Is this as simple as his partner having sex with an under age boy?

    If so, that would seem harsh to me, sure it wasn't even him... he can't be responsible for the actions of others.

    Or is there more to it?

    No you are right he didn't do it, he just said it was ok to do it!


  • #2578
    mconigol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    Min wrote: »
    Yeah even back then he says "have been widely mentioned as a presidential candidate in the forthcoming elections for the presidency of Ireland." and how he worked with Mary Robinson the then current president and how he was elected to the Senate on the first count with the highest vote ever.

    The amount of name dropping in that letter was incredible.

    It was an abuse of his position for a personal matter. Hardly representing the Irish people now was he.


  • #2579
    Side Show Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Side Show Bob


    Raphael wrote: »
    That'd be the crest that wasn't on the 3rd letter,

    So were all ok with the first & second letter then?


  • #2580
    General General
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭General General


    Raphael wrote: »


    http://www.france.qrd.org/assocs/ilga/euroletter/84.html#IS

    Best I can find.

    Good catch.

    However, I can't see Sen. Norris anytime soon sayin'; yo! bitches, he was 17!!

    & stat' is still stat'.


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  • #2581
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,956 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    Well, he's not going to get the nomination now (although it's interesting that this is all coming out now, how come the Israeli embassy never said anything before?). Probably won't bother voting in the upcoming election now, couldn't be bothered with the rest of them.

    I think that's my biggest annoyance with this whole fiasco; I can see a lot of people (myself included) simply not voting, which I think is a bad road to go down for democracy.
    It's not that I was a massive Norris supporter, but I was going to vote for him. He was at least public and vocal. I honestly have no clue who else is running which is really bad publicity work on everyone elses part tbh, and I think whoever wins now only wins by default of Norris having to pull out of the race...


This discussion has been closed.
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