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Is David Norris Toast?

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Comments

  • #962
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,020 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The drink driving limits are different in other countries too. Should we drop ours to match or just respect their laws when visiting these countries ?


  • #963
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    15. Can you not read.

    No you said that IYO 15 and 16 yr olds could decide if they wanted to consent.
    It strikes me that you are doing the same thing as so many people in Ireland did in relation to abuse by priests. For a long while they lived in denial, and it was not until The Ryan and other reports where published that they had to face the truth.
    The truth here is that Norris does not have the judgement to be our President. He should not have run and has done untold damage to what looked like a new beginning for Ireland. It's a shambles tbh. Very sad.


  • #964
    InigoMontoya
    Closed Accounts Posts: 228 ✭✭InigoMontoya


    character wrote: »
    Norris does well in opinion polls and is a popular figure - not to everyone, but still popular. What sort of democracy is it if we have a presidential race and exclude the guy who might win it because he doesn't fit the normal profile? My blog on it here...http://tiny.cc/bionk

    From your blog:
    Whatever relevance the actions of David Norris’s partner nearly two decades ago, whatever quotes can be raised out of context from his own past, this race will be doomed to illegitimacy if he is excluded.
    character wrote: »
    All fair enough - but none of this explains why he should be disqualified from an election which he would do well in, because the old establishment have rules designed to remain in power. My concern isn't for Norris, it's that we reform our overall electoral system. And since we have an election in October for President, it's not a bad place to start!
    He is not being disqualified, he is (so far) failing to get a nomination. The presidential election system could well use reform, but to suggest that this should be rushed through to facilitate one particular candidate hardly seems like a viable approach to running a democracy either.

    Saying that the election will be "illegitimate" if he cannot get nominated is somewhat ludicrous. The system is the same as it's always been; were all the previous presidents illegitimate?


  • #965
    aas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭aas


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The drink driving limits are different in other countries too. Should we drop ours to match or just respect their laws when visiting these countries ?

    Again, you're conflating 'moral behaviour' with 'obeying the law'. I believe the figure of 0.02% should be observed in all areas where safe driving requires a high detail of attention to what's going on on the road. You drive around all day legally in Ireland at .05%, but I would see that as immoral behaviour.


  • #966
    Bock the Robber
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 304 ✭✭Bock the Robber


    What to make of this Tweet?

    "The Israeli embassy had no interest in this until I broke the story to them. Screw you."

    From @mendingtheworld, aka thesystemworks.

    This guy was long ago banned from BTR and other sites for attempting to disrupt discussions which were critical of Israeli policy.


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  • #967
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    copacetic wrote: »
    What papers reported this?

    A few clues as to one of them......

    It hangs in the sky during a fine day.
    It spouts shite.
    It claimed Liverpool fans pickpocketed their own dead at the Hillsborough disaster.
    After the recent massacre in norway it ran a headline "Norways 9-11, Al-Qaeda terrorist attack.


  • #968
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The drink driving limits are different in other countries too. Should we drop ours to match or just respect their laws when visiting these countries ?

    How are ya fixed for a bit of ould property tax law?


  • #969
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Anybody hear Helen Lucy Burke on Liveline today? Her allegations about David Norris which stem from an interview by her contained in Magill some nine years ago raise serious issues about his views on moral/legal issues. The Liveline programme is available here: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/ and is dynamite. Lucy Burke has a tape of the original interview and if this is as explicit as she claims he is finished - possibly in the Senate too. I am not anti-gay and would probably have voted for him as President - before today. I was worried that Ireland wasn't ready for a 'gay' President but this is more serious if it stands up. :(

    No harm to look at the original thread - HLB received a huge amount of criticism at the time.


  • #970
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,782 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    mikom wrote: »
    A few clues as to one of them......

    It hangs in the sky during a fine day.
    It spouts shite.
    It claimed Liverpool fans pickpocketed their own dead at the Hillsborough disaster.
    After the recent massacre in norway it ran a headline "Norways 9-11, Al-Qaeda terrorist attack.

    Really? People are making factual claims over and over in this thread with a story in the Sun to back them up?:confused:

    All the even slightly reliable press appear to be sticking to 'underage' and not claiming the age or using the hyperbole of people on this thread.

    If this is indeed a massive story in Nawi's background, why did none of the worlds press pick up on it in 2009 when places like the guardian, time magazine etc ran stories on his fixed trial in Israel for inciting a riot etc?


  • #971
    congress3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 159 ✭✭congress3


    Sharrow wrote: »
    You need to learn the difference between a paedophile and a pederast.

    And just what is that difference exactly?? :confused:


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  • #972
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    copacetic wrote: »
    Really? People are making factual claims over and over in this thread with a story in the Sun to back them up?:confused:

    http://i52.tinypic.com/219qkxi.jpg

    Note the use of the word KID and the absence of the word EX.


  • #973
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    No you said that IYO 15 and 16 yr olds could decide if they wanted to consent.
    It strikes me that you are doing the same thing as so many people in Ireland did in relation to abuse by priests. For a long while they lived in denial, and it was not until The Ryan and other reports where published that they had to face the truth.
    The truth here is that Norris does not have the judgement to be our President. He should not have run and has done untold damage to what looked like a new beginning for Ireland. It's a shambles tbh. Very sad.


    I'm sorry but do you know what the difference is between consentual and non-consentual sex? Can we not have a reasoned, logical debate about the age of consent? You just want to smear me by trying to link me with Church deniers...wow that's a strange angle. Don't deal with the point I raised, but rather sink to the lowest common dominator. That is sad alright!


  • #974
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,782 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    mikom wrote: »
    http://i52.tinypic.com/219qkxi.jpg

    Note the use of the word KID.

    Cheers, so all the facts people are posting are based on reading the sun today?:confused: No wonder they were careful to avoid saying where they got their information from.

    The very fact it is on the front page of the sun means it is less likely to be true than if it wasn't.


  • #975
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    If a priest said or did half the things Norris has he would be the devil himself.


  • #976
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    There is room for debate on the issue of sexual relations between consenting young people of around the same age.

    That is a different issue than the issue of sexual relations between older privileged men and younger disadvantaged youths.

    Older privileged men like to muddy the waters between the two and make out that they are standing up for the rights of young people to choose who they have sex with.

    David Norris has said he does not see the need for any age of consent.


    I was listening to a survivor of sexual abuse by an adult male cleric talking on the radio during the week.
    He said that the assaults happened to him as a teen and while he didn’t really have the mental skills to understand the situation, to his horror and shame he found that his body responded sexually to the abuse.
    This often happens but how is the youth to know that.
    Most survivors of sexual abuse go through a phase of blaming themselves and it is important for them to come to the realisation that it is the adult that is responsible in the situation.

    It is important to maintain an age of consent.
    Can you imagine if the victims of the various clerical abuse scandals not only had to prove the abuse happened but also had to prove they didn’t consent.
    The clerics would of course be saying their victims, these 15 year old boys, were willing and enjoyed what was happening.
    It would be a terrible thing to add to what victims have to go through

    Underage boys or girls should not have to prove they did not consent to sex which is a very difficult thing to do as any woman trying to get a conviction for rape will tell you.


  • #977
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,464 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Ambersky wrote: »
    There is room for debate on the issue of sexual relations between consenting young people of around the same age.

    That is a different issue than the issue of sexual relations between older privileged men and younger disadvantaged youths.

    Older privileged men like to muddy the waters between the two and make out that they are standing up for the rights of young people to choose who they have sex with.

    David Norris has said he does not see the need for any age of consent.


    I was listening to a survivor of sexual abuse by an adult male cleric talking on the radio during the week.
    He said that the assaults happened to him as a teen and while he didn’t really have the mental skills to understand the situation, to his horror and shame he found that his body responded sexually to the abuse.
    This often happens but how is the youth to know that.
    Most survivors of sexual abuse go through a phase of blaming themselves and it is important for them to come to the realisation that it is the adult that is responsible in the situation.

    It is important to maintain an age of consent.
    Can you imagine if the victims of the various clerical abuse scandals not only had to prove the abuse happened but also had to prove they didn’t consent.
    The clerics would of course be saying their victims were willing and enjoyed what was happening.
    It would be a terrible thing to add to what victims have to go through


    Again that is the rape of people, where the victim is not giving consent. Different.

    If two 15 year olds have sex and they both consent to it, what's the problem??


  • #978
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    later10 wrote: »
    that 15 year old would be in his early 30's today and I would like to hear David Norris explain how he could look that man in the face and say 'yes, I appealed for clemency in favour of the man who sexually assaulted you when you were a boy'.



    I'm surprised you're spouting this sensalist rubbish later. A boy? He was 15. Also maybe the "boy" would turn around and thank Norris for trying to have a man released for par-taking in a consentual act? Unless you've spoken to the guy you've no idea how or what his opinion on it all is.


  • #979
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    hotmail says
    Again that is the rape of people, where the victim is not giving consent. Different.

    prove it!


  • #980
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    I'm sorry but do you know what the difference is between consentual and non-consentual sex? Can we not have a reasoned, logical debate about the age of consent? You just want to smear me by trying to link me with Church deniers...wow that's a strange angle. Don't deal with the point I raised, but rather sink to the lowest common dominator. That is sad alright!

    I'll debate the age of consent all day if it was relevant here.
    My point is that you have stuck on 15 in a woeful attempt to defend Norris. If the child has been 12 that would have been your 'age of consent' It's so blatantly transparent what you are at. Not to mention pathetic.


  • #981
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    copacetic wrote: »
    Cheers, so all the facts people are posting are based on reading the sun today?:confused: No wonder they were careful to avoid saying where they got their information from.

    Don't worry, the papers tomorrow will be quite revealing I suspect.

    I would not be surprised in the slightest if the discussions in relation to Norris shift from his chances of getting a presidential nomination to whether his entire political career is over. Norris might not only have to abandon his presidential bid, he might have to abandon the Seanad too.


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  • #982
    omerin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,489 ✭✭✭omerin


    How he hasn't got a nomination yet I think speaks volumes. To much of a loose cannon and wouldn't be surprised if there were more things to come out of the closet. As for voting for him, no chance.


  • #983
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    congress3 wrote: »
    And just what is that difference exactly?? :confused:

    A paedophile is a person sexually attracted to children, those who have not gone through puberty.

    A pederast is someone who is attracted to young adults, those who have gone through puberty and are physically mature.


  • #984
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭later12


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    I'm surprised you're spouting this sensalist rubbish later. A boy? He was 15. Also maybe the "boy" would turn around and thank Norris for trying to have a man released for par-taking in a consentual act? Unless you've spoken to the guy you've no idea how or what his opinion on it all is.
    Oh don't lets get sucked into a debate about at what age a boy is a boy
    "In terms of classic paedophilia, as practised by the Greeks for example, where it is an older man introducing a younger man or boy to adult life, I think there can be something to be said for it.


  • #985
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    Sharrow are you defending pederasts?
    I am asking that respectfully because I often find myself agreeing with your politics and I really dont understand.


  • #986
    copacetic
    Subscribers Posts: 16,782 ✭✭✭✭copacetic


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Don't worry, the papers tomorrow will be quite revealing I suspect.

    I would not be surprised in the slightest if the discussions in relation to Norris shift from his chances of getting a presidential nomination to whether his entire political career is over.

    Maybe they will, but until then should people be allowed to post 'facts' with nothing to back them up, or post like yours implying terrible things but wth nothing actually in them?

    What if tomorrow is just the daily mail following it's right wing colleagues in the sun with laughable bias and hyperbole?

    The only thing that makes me think there is much to this at all is the campaign staff resigning. This could be because Norris wasn't willing anymore to go on the attack himself against the concerted and what appears to be organised campaign against him.

    See, its even got me sounding like a conspiracy theorist at this stage!


  • #987
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Sharrow wrote: »
    A paedophile is a person sexually attracted to children, those who have not gone through puberty.

    A pederast is someone who is attracted to young adults, those who have gone through puberty and are physically mature.
    He defended classical pederasty which occurred from the age twelve, sometimes even younger, and up.


  • #988
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    copacetic wrote: »
    Maybe they will, but until then should people be allowed to post 'facts' with nothing to back them up, or post like yours implying terrible things but wth nothing actually in them?

    Don't worry - the facts will probably be out in the public domain for all to see tomorrow (or this evening).

    If they are not, we can all go on our merry way again. But dont forget that a handful of Davids campaign team have resigned, campaign teams do not buy into conspiracy theories in relation to their candidates. They know there are some damming hard facts on the rail tracks. Some individuals on his own campaign team asked him to give up the campaign afterall.


  • #989
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    later10 wrote: »
    Oh don't lets get sucked into a debate about at what age a boy is a boy



    It seems you have some hidden agenda against Norris tbh. So when did you talk to this "boy" and get his opinion on the matter and what makes you think he'd be angery at Norris for trying to get your man cleared?


  • #990
    Ambersky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Ambersky


    I dont understand why there isnt a general consensus that pederasty isnt ok.


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  • #991
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    copacetic wrote: »
    The only thing that makes me think there is much to this at all is the campaign staff resigning. This could be because Norris wasn't willing anymore to go on the attack himself against the concerted and what appears to be organised campaign against him.

    Try to keep up...we now know why they resigned and the sources aren't the Sun.


This discussion has been closed.
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