Is David Norris Toast?

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:41PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Not according to the law they can't.
You need to get a grip if you think that. Wait until you have 15 year old children and come back and let us know if there's 40 year old men sniffing around them.

How many 15 year olds have sex with 40 year old men? Sheesh, the vast vast majority will be having sexual relations with people around their own age. I believe 15 year olds can make that decision for themselves.

As for the law, we've already mentioned that. Perhaps the law needs to be changed to reduce the age of consent.

Morag · 30-07-2011 01:41PM

Teclo wrote: »

The shame is that this wonderful republic of ours was prepared (and maybe still is) to elect a president who was happy to share his bed with a paedophile.

You need to learn the difference between a paedophile and a pederast.

alan85 · 30-07-2011 01:43PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

How many 15 year olds have sex with 40 year old men? Sheesh, the vast vast majority will be having sexual relations with people around their own age. I believe 15 year olds can make that decision for themselves.

As for the law, we've already mentioned that. Perhaps the law needs to be changed to reduce the age of consent.

In reality, cases of that nature are dealt with on case by case basis... Like I said it's a grey area.

The nature of Norris's Partner is altogether different. A 40 yr old taking advantage of a young person is in a different league to that of two teens deciding to have sex.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:43PM

later10 wrote: »

To underline the fact that a 15 year old is someone in the junior stages of development, of education and of sexual and psychological maturity.

The Cloyne report deals with cases of sexual assault against 15 year olds - are you saying that the Cloyne report is blowing such cases of sexual assault out of proportion, generally?

No I'm saying absolutely nothing about the Cloyne report, nothing, you've decided to bring that topic into the conversation, even though I'm talking about consentual sex, which is a separate topic to rape.

15 year olds can consent to having sexual relations (and most do nowadays, and there's nothing wrong about it). As long as they receive sex education of course.

mikom · 30-07-2011 01:43PM

Teclo wrote: »

The shame is that this wonderful republic of ours was prepared (and maybe still is) to elect a president who was happy to share his bed with a paedophile.

Do you even know what a paedophile is?

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:46PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You must have no kids of you're own. Either that or you like young ones yourself. The age of consent is 17 and rightly so.

Reported. Obviously you don't know how to debate with someone in a mature fashion.

later12 · 30-07-2011 01:47PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

15 year olds can consent to having sexual relations

Not in Ireland they can't - and not in Israel either.

Cloyne is very relevant here because not all of the cases of sexual assault were necessarily forced rapes - at least not forced in terms of physical force. And Cloyne dealt with 15 year olds. So would you brush that aside as easily?

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:50PM

later10 wrote: »

Not in Ireland they can't - and not in Israel either.

Cloyne is very relevant here because not all of the cases of sexual assault were necessarily forced rapes - at least not forced in terms of physical force. And Cloyne dealt with 15 year olds. So would you brush that aside as easily?

Cloyne is a separate topic. You are trying to link child rape with consentual sex.

I'm sorry but we've mentioned the law already. I'm suggesting that 15 year olds can consent to sex, despite what the law says. Is that a really hard propostion for some people...

tayto lover · 30-07-2011 01:50PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Reported. Obviously you don't know how to debate with someone in a mature fashion.

Does you're maturity mean going against the law regarding the age of consent. The experts did not put the age at 17 for nothing and you're attempts at suggesting it should be 15 annoyed me, just as my reply seems to have annoyed you.

RayM · 30-07-2011 01:51PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The age of consent is 17 and rightly so.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, but why is it 'rightly so'? In the North, the age of consent is 16. It all seems a bit arbitrary...

Given the tone of the rest of your posts, I'm not expecting a sensible or logical answer to this question.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:52PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Does you're maturity mean going against the law regarding the age of consent. The experts did not put the age at 17 for nothing and you're attempts at suggesting it should be 15 annoyed me, just as my reply seems to have annoyed you.

I'm not debating with you any longer. You made a ridiculous accusation in your post. You don't know how to debate. Therefore you lost.

Judgement Day · 30-07-2011 01:53PM

This latest revelation is what I feared from day 1 of David Norris announcing that he wished to run - he is toast - as I suggested in the OP. What people, and David Norris, need to appreciate is that “The higher the monkey climbs a tree, the more of his ass you can see” - someone aspiring to the highest office in the land has to be beyond reproach. It doesn't matter who or why leaked the latest information - imagine if he becomes President and more allegations come out of the woodwork. I believe he will quit the race this week. Hopefully, Mary Davis or Sean Gallagher will get nominated as I rather not vote than have to choose between Gay Mitchell and Michael Twee. :rolleyes:

mikom · 30-07-2011 01:54PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You must have no kids of you're own. Either that or you like young ones yourself.

Ade Edmondson was my favorite.

afrodub · 30-07-2011 01:57PM

The age is too low already IMO,and no doubt persons will try and make it lower still

it was done as a compromised decision for legal expedience I believe.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 01:59PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

This latest revelation is what I feared from day 1 of David Norris announcing that he wished to run - he is toast - as I suggested in the OP. What people, and David Norris, need to appreciate is that “The higher the monkey climbs a tree, the more of his ass you can see” - someone aspiring to the highest office in the land has to be beyond reproach. It doesn't matter who or why leaked the latest information - imagine if he becomes President and more allegations come out of the woodwork. I believe he will quit the race this week. Hopefully, Mary Davis or Sean Gallagher will get nominated as I rather not vote than have to choose between Gay Mitchell and Michael Twee. :rolleyes:

Beyond reproach - don't make me laugh. Dev was involved in numerous killings and was anti-Treaty. Was he beyond reproach?

tayto lover · 30-07-2011 02:00PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm not debating with you any longer. You made a ridiculous accusation in your post. You don't know how to debate. Therefore you lost.

Aw shucks now i'm sad ...... for you.

later12 · 30-07-2011 02:03PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm suggesting that 15 year olds can consent to sex, despite what the law says.

Were you on any of the Cloyne threads saying this? It is a separate topic, but the principle should be the same, surely.

To get back to the topic at hand, one thing that really disturbs me about this story is the idea that David Norris was using official channels to appeal for clemency in such a serious case, whilst apparently ignoring the victim in this case.

As an advocate of human rights - as he is - how could he defend the accused, whilst ignoring the fact that this act was committed against a 15 year old Palestinian youth, who, knowing what we know about that place, would likely have no great legal representation available to him, and would be extremely unlikely to enjoy the backing of any western European politicians writing letters of appeal on his behalf.

that 15 year old would be in his early 30's today and I would like to hear David Norris explain how he could look that man in the face and say 'yes, I appealed for clemency in favour of the man who sexually assaulted you when you were a boy'.

Judgement Day · 30-07-2011 02:04PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Given your posts on gay broadcasters on RTE and previous posts on Norris himself, your view on Norris at the moment is somewhat clouded to say the least.

Beyond reproach - don't make me laugh. Dev was involved in numerous killings and was anti-Treaty. Was he beyond reproach?

Dev was a long, long time ago and I haven't the faintest idea what your reference to gay broadcasters on RTE refers to - link please.

Happyman42 · 30-07-2011 02:06PM

@Hotmail.com
What do you think a 'practical' age of consent should be?
Are you saying '15' because this is the age of the child in the Norris case or would you be taking a stand on 13 yrs if that had been the age of the child...or 11 or 10?
IYO when does it become a crime?

Morag · 30-07-2011 02:06PM

later10 wrote: »

As an advocate of human rights - as he is - how could he defend the accused, whilst ignoring the fact that this act was committed against a 15 year old Palestinian youth, who, knowing what we know about that place, would likely have no great legal representation available to him, and would be extremely unlikely to enjoy the backing of any western European politicians writing letters of appeal on his behalf.

that 15 year old would be in his early 30's today and I would like to hear David Norris explain how he could look that man in the face and say 'yes, I appealed for clemency in favour of the man who sexually assaulted you when you were a boy'.

Can you link to the details of the trial/case in 1992 where the age of the young person is mention?

I can't find it, have you found it?

Cos in 1992 the age of consent for homosexuals in Israel was 18,(it was changed to 16 in 2000) so until you can point to the age of the victim, you need to stop banding about the age of 15.

anymore · 30-07-2011 02:09PM

later10 wrote: »

What would you think of a 40 year old man dating - and having sex with - a girl studying for her junior cert?

Most of us would be appalled and shocked ! Wouldnt everyone ?

later12 · 30-07-2011 02:10PM

Sharrow wrote: »

Can you link to the details of the trial/case in 1992 where the age of the young person is mention?

I can't find it, have you found it?

Cos in 1992 the age of consent for homosexuals in Israel was 18,(it was changed to 16 in 2000) so until you can point to the age of the victim, you need to stop banding about the age of 15.

The Saturday papers are reporting this as sex with a 15 year old.

The sources that I am reading indicate that the age of consent was 16 since 1977. Can you provide a link to the age of consent of 18 in 1992?

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 02:12PM

Judgement Day wrote: »

Dev was a long, long time ago and I haven't the faintest idea what your reference to gay broadcasters on RTE refers to - link please.

Oh sorry I take that back. I'll remove that now.

Morag · 30-07-2011 02:13PM

later10 wrote: »

The Saturday papers are reporting this as sex with a 15 year old.

The sources that I am reading indicate that the age of consent was 16 since 1977.

Links?

Age of consent for heterosexual relationships was 16 from 1977 but not for homosexual relationships.

http://www.gaylawnet.com/laws/il.htm

In July 2000, the gay age of consent in Israel was lowered from 18 to 16 [R1.1].

The change brings the gay age of consent in line with the age of consent for heterosexuals.

The amendment to the penal code also exempts consensual gay sex involving youths 14 and 15 and youths up to three years older.

R1.1 Ha'aretz : Age of Consensual Homosexual Sex Lowered in Israel 01 NOV 00

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 02:14PM

later10 wrote: »

Were you on any of the Cloyne threads saying this? It is a separate topic, but the principle should be the same, surely.

To get back to the topic at hand, one thing that really disturbs me about this story is the idea that David Norris was using official channels to appeal for clemency in such a serious case, whilst apparently ignoring the victim in this case.

As an advocate of human rights - as he is - how could he defend the accused, whilst ignoring the fact that this act was committed against a 15 year old Palestinian youth, who, knowing what we know about that place, would likely have no great legal representation available to him, and would be extremely unlikely to enjoy the backing of any western European politicians writing letters of appeal on his behalf.

that 15 year old would be in his early 30's today and I would like to hear David Norris explain how he could look that man in the face and say 'yes, I appealed for clemency in favour of the man who sexually assaulted you when you were a boy'.

Cloyne dealt with rape, I'm talking about consentual sex. They are completely separate topics.

Min · 30-07-2011 02:16PM

Sharrow wrote: »

You need to learn the difference between a paedophile and a pederast.

I would say Norris's partner was a hebephile.

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 02:17PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

@Hotmail.com
What do you think a 'practical' age of consent should be?
Are you saying '15' because this is the age of the child in the Norris case or would you be taking a stand on 13 yrs if that had been the age of the child...or 11 or 10?
IYO when does it become a crime?

I'm not suggesting I have all the answers but in some countries the age of consent is 13, in Ireland it is 17. 17 is too high, 15 and 16 year olds can give consent to sexual relations in my view. And many do.

copacetic · 30-07-2011 02:20PM

later10 wrote: »

The Saturday papers are reporting this as sex with a 15 year old.

What papers reported this?

Happyman42 · 30-07-2011 02:20PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

I'm not suggesting I have all the answers but in some countries the age of consent is 13, in Ireland it is 17. 17 is too high, 15 and 16 year olds can give consent to sexual relations in my view. And many do.

Very interesting...but could you answer the question now?

hotmail.com · 30-07-2011 02:22PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

Very interesting...but could you answer the question now?

15. Can you not read.

Is David Norris Toast?

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