Reason behind the death of the Irish Pub

southsiderosie · 27-07-2011 01:50PM

Bambi wrote: »

Yeah we'll having a quiet night in throwing acid in the missus face or having the local witchdoctor over to chop the chungfellas foreskin off. Hurrah and huzzah :pac:

Or you could join the rest of Europe and develop a real cafe/restaurant culture...just a thought.

sock puppet · 27-07-2011 01:52PM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Where do you go?

Drink at home and then a club if going out usually. I'd often drink in the college bar too. I do go to the pub but only for a few pints every so often. Whereas my parents would have went to pubs before parties, nights out etc.

Blisterman · 27-07-2011 01:54PM

Death of the Irish pub? There's thousands of them and most Irish people I know still go to the pub.

123balltv · 27-07-2011 01:56PM

no money
price of drinks are still a rip off

Logical Fallacy · 27-07-2011 01:58PM

To be honest, let more of them die...then the ones that want to survive will actually have to do something engage possible customers.

Guy:Incognito · 27-07-2011 01:59PM

Somebody put up a pint price index recently. The price of a pint is a good bit lower now as a percentage of wages than it has been since the index was started.

Dyr · 27-07-2011 01:59PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Or you could join the rest of Europe and develop a real cafe/restaurant culture...just a thought.

Hmm..ive been to this mythical europe place..it didnt have a cafe/restaurant/massive inferiority complex culture.

Except for italy, without the inferiority bit

Rented Mule · 27-07-2011 02:07PM

The other factor that has to be taken into account was the sheer number of pubs that opened during the boom. At one point there were over 10,000 pubs in the Republic. That in itself is not the issue. Many of these pubs exchanged hands while the real estate market exploded where the cost of the pubs sky rocketed. New pub owners just expected to open the doors and watch the money roll in. Most of these new owners were mortgaged to the gills and were struggling to pay their notes. This was another factor in driving up the cost of a drink.

Hannibal Smith · 27-07-2011 02:09PM

sock puppet wrote: »

Drink at home and then a club if going out usually. I'd often drink in the college bar too. I do go to the pub but only for a few pints every so often. Whereas my parents would have went to pubs before parties, nights out etc.

You'd be the perfect candidate for a pub consumer survey

Why wouldn't you consider going to the pub?

Happyman42 · 27-07-2011 02:11PM

Bambi wrote: »

Hmm..ive been to this mythical europe place..it didnt have a cafe/restaurant/massive inferiority complex culture.

Except for italy, without the inferiority bit

The rubbish people talk about the 'mythical' European cafe/restaurant culture!
There is more of a cafe culture in Dublin than there is in most European cities.

It's a red herring thrown in by the anti-pub anti-fun lobby. Generally people who have had their own fun and are now disgusted in Blackrock about the gurriers drinking.

Run_to_da_hills · 27-07-2011 02:17PM

ItsAWindUp wrote: »

Televisions.

Cheap large flat screen television.

In the 80's pubs would have paid up to 10K for a large LED projector screen TV.

Today ten of the equivalent could be purchased for the same price.

Some pubs have them in every corner.

NOT EVERYONE IN THE PUP HAS AN INTEREST IN FOOTBALL.

Also in relation to the above those that would have gone to the pub to watch the "big screen" can now do it in the comfort of their own home.

endabob1 · 27-07-2011 02:21PM

From a rural perspective the drink driving clampdown (rightly) had a massive impact on pubs in small towns and villages. Growing up there were 8 pubs where I lived now there are 4 and most of them struggle to keep the doors open, the tide started to change 10 years ago, the smoking ban & the price of drink have accelerated the decline.
Sadly I think we are becoming more and more British where there is a culture of drinking at home which I still find alien, to me the social aspect of being in a busy pub is as important as the drink.

ceadaoin. · 27-07-2011 02:25PM

Happyman42 wrote: »

The rubbish people talk about the 'mythical' European cafe/restaurant culture!
There is more of a cafe culture in Dublin than there is in most European cities.

It's a red herring thrown in by the anti-pub anti-fun lobby. Generally people who have had their own fun and are now disgusted in Blackrock about the gurriers drinking.

It's not mythical at all. Have you ever been to Paris? Where in Dublin can you get a glass of wine or a beer in a cafe?

southsiderosie · 27-07-2011 02:26PM

Bambi wrote: »

Hmm..ive been to this mythical europe place..it didnt have a cafe/restaurant/massive inferiority complex culture.

Except for italy, without the inferiority bit

Have you been to Spain? Or Portugal? Or Belgium?

Happyman42 wrote: »

The rubbish people talk about the 'mythical' European cafe/restaurant culture!
There is more of a cafe culture in Dublin than there is in most European cities.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL...Dublin has chain coffeeshops with comfy chairs. And Bewley's. There are decent coffeeshops here and there but most of them don't have a kitchen, close pretty early and I don't think any of them serve alcohol.

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's a red herring thrown in by the anti-pub anti-fun lobby. Generally people who have had their own fun and are now disgusted in Blackrock about the gurriers drinking.

Whooo, talk about the inferiority bit! For the record, I'm not even Irish.

Ah nuts · 27-07-2011 02:27PM

For me the death knell started with the millenium celebrations. People didn't want to get ripped off paying to go into pubs and being charged ridiculous prices. They subsequently realised that parties at homes were a much better economical option.

Also as pubs get quiter people will stop going to them as there is nothing worse than going to an empty pub.

sock puppet · 27-07-2011 02:30PM

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

You'd be the perfect candidate for a pub consumer survey Why wouldn't you consider going to the pub?

Em dunno exactly. One reason I suppose is cost, especially if we're predrinking. No matter what happens pubs will never be able to compete with off licences. Another reason is that sometimes the atmosphere can feel a little subdued. Maybe that's not the right word though. That said I do enjoy going to my local and would be disappointed if it closed down. I just wouldn't really go there on a night out.

Martin Walker · 27-07-2011 02:30PM

The economic boom.

Prices went up and people didnt want to pay out in excess of 150E a weekend on the piss. Go to the off sales for better value. Simples.

ceadaoin. · 27-07-2011 02:32PM

I think the main factor in the decline of pubs is the prices. I don't live in Ireland anymore but whenever I'm home I'm shocked at the prices they charge. It's pure greed.

Also, the ****ty loud music that you can barely have a conversation over would put me off going into a pub.

InTheTrees · 27-07-2011 02:44PM

marketty wrote: »

All the points mentioned so far are true, another thing I've noticed personally is the huge increase in the popularity of individual sports such as running, cycling etc. In this country there has always been a link between team sports and drinking, whereas now people are much more health conscious and getting into sport/fitness for health benefits rather than the social side.

Funny.

In 49 posts only one person has suggested the possibility that perhaps people just may not want to drink. Never mind the prices.

I mean assuming that just because there's less people in the pub then they must be all at home drinking instead is a little wonky isnt it? Maybe they got home, got changed and went running?

Or whatever. My point is that in this modern world perhaps the traditional local is losing out to the gym?

I know I know I know you can go to the pub and not drink. But really thats mostly for people accompanying people who are drinking isnt it?

(ps, I love my local, and I drink. just to be clear.)

southsiderosie · 27-07-2011 02:53PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Funny.

In 49 posts only one person has suggested the possibility that perhaps people just may not want to drink. Never mind the prices.

I mean assuming that just because there's less people in the pub then they must be all at home drinking instead is a little wonky isnt it? Maybe they got home, got changed and went running?

Or whatever. My point is that in this modern world perhaps the traditional local is losing out to the gym?

I know I know I know you can go to the pub and not drink. But really thats mostly for people accompanying people who are drinking isnt it?

(ps, I love my local, and I drink. just to be clear.)

How much has how people drink changed as well? Frankly I think the drink selection at a lot of pubs suck, especially if you don't drink beer. Not to mention the fact that charging for both spirits and mixers (and being stingy on the pour) is highway robbery.

Naos · 27-07-2011 02:55PM

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I was in my local last night with the good lady wife for her birthday.
There was us & 2 other customers.
I'd been out a few Sunday's ago with the father-in-law & there was 10 people in the place.
We're talking about an establishment that did a bomb back 10 years ago & the town is small so the punters haven't just gone elsewhere.
I've listed some of the main factors behind the decline as I see it below, please add.

(1) The price of the pint, encroached & exceeded €5 the closer you got to Dublin. It was like a watershed for people that made them question their drinking.
(2) Replacing the splash mixer with the baby bottle, nobody likes to be gouged.
(3) High excise duties which were passed onto customer with interest.
(4) Branded beers for below €1 a bottle in supermarkets, nobody could justify paying 5 times the cost in a pub.
(5) Smoking ban, obvious enough.
(6) Crackdown & social disapproval with drink driving.
(7) The rise & rise & rise & rise of wine, perfectly suited for home drinking.
(8) Intransigence from Diageo regarding price reductions.
(9) The minimum wage.

I haven't included the recession as the downward trend was in place long before 2007.
Most will agree that it's a combination of all these factors but is there any one which acted as the final nail on the glory days.
I'm going for the huge popularity increase in wine.

Intransigence... admit it, you just started this thread to use that word.

Buceph · 27-07-2011 02:57PM

I think some pubs are going to come out of this current state and be golden.

My (sort-of) local seems to be doing pretty well. It's at least half full on quiet nights, for late afternoon and evening matches in either the soccer, rugby or away GAA matches it'll be packed. Weekend nights it's usually tough to find a seat. What is it's magic secret? It cut drink prices, so it's €4 a pint for the top-line Heineken's and Buds. It serves Fosters and Tuborg for €3 or less. The music is never too loud. They have a couple of feeds for the TV, so even if 90% of the pub wants to watch the Champions League, they'll still be able to put on a rugby game or golf or cycling on another TV. The staff seem to know everyone (or at least they know the people I know, who would be recognisable faces in there). They have free wifi that you get access to if you ask and they know you. They do cheap sandwiches and coffee during the day. Basically there's a good vibe in the place. I can be pretty much guaranteed that I'll find someone to chat to in the smoking area any night I go down. And all if this is done on the outskirts of a city. You wouldn't get anyone really coming in after they've strolled around the shops, but you'd get plenty coming from those living around the city.

I also think the whole café thing could have taken off if McDowell wasn't such a hateful man, and if the Vintner's Association were told to feck off. Instead of billing it as a European style thing, which is sure to get people's backs up (at least once the Vintner's start their hate campaign of "who do you think we are Mr. McFrenchypants, all we want is an honest pint of stout after an honest days work, none of this frog legs and snails with a glass of champagne.") Change it to a situation where there's a cheaper and easier-to-get drinks license for people who earn less than 50% of their income from booze. So you'd have places that would serve coffee and teas, food in the form of small munchies and cakes open until 12.30. They'd be able to attract the people who don't want to go to a pub, but have had no choice until now. And you might say why not do that as it is now? Mainly because in a group of five or so, there will always be one or two who want a couple of beers instead of the coffee and cake. At the moment, if people went to a café the drinker couldn't drink at all, so these groups default to a bar or staying at home. If a café was earning most of it's money from non-drinkers, but still allowed for a minority of people to get a bottle of beer, they shouldn't have to pay for a pub license.

Dionysus · 27-07-2011 03:00PM

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Craft beers and the lack of pubs uptake?

Look at Against the Grain in Dublin.. Pretty much all craft beers.. busy every day of the week...

That particular pub was a huge disappointment: breathtakingly unjustified prices, abysmal service and a decor that screams student/scruffbag and thus a pint - I vaguely recall that they weren't even pints! - that should be â‚¬3.50, not â‚¬5.50. The Bull and Castle is a far superior craft pub.

southsiderosie · 27-07-2011 03:03PM

Buceph wrote: »

I think some pubs are going to come out of this current state and be golden.

My (sort-of) local seems to be doing pretty well...

Where is this magical place you describe?

Buceph wrote: »

Change it to a situation where there's a cheaper and easier-to-get drinks license for people who earn less than 50% of their income from booze. So you'd have places that would serve coffee and teas, food in the form of small munchies and cakes open until 12.30. They'd be able to attract the people who don't want to go to a pub, but have had no choice until now. And you might say why not do that as it is now? Mainly because in a group of five or so, there will always be one or two who want a couple of beers instead of the coffee and cake. At the moment, if people went to a café the drinker couldn't drink at all, so these groups default to a bar or staying at home. If a café was earning most of it's money from non-drinkers, but still allowed for a minority of people to get a bottle of beer, they shouldn't have to pay for a pub license.

Are there BYOB laws in Ireland?

super_furry · 27-07-2011 03:05PM

Price and the widening Irish drinker's palate would be my main gripes. Fewer and fewer people are happy to sit in a pub paying €5 for a pint of Guinness/Heineken/Budweiser these days when you can got to any off licence and pay half that for some quality beers.

super_furry · 27-07-2011 03:06PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Are there BYOB laws in Ireland?

Only place I've ever seen encourage it is an Indian restaurant in Donnybrook.

yupyup7up · 27-07-2011 03:08PM

Never really understood why Irish produced drinks such as bulmers, guinness etc etc are so expensive anyway. In spain for example you'd get the local beer for half nothing (albeit muck).

I'd happily pay €3-€3.50 a pint, this would be a very good price and where the f*ck do clubs get off with charging €5 for bottles!!!

Buceph · 27-07-2011 03:09PM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Are there BYOB laws in Ireland?

I've looked into this a little, and although I haven't found anything conclusive, my limited research shows that you can have a BYOB deal, but you still need the license to allow consumption.

The only place I've seen it done was in an Indian takeaway/restaurant, run by Pakistanis. They had a license but operated on a BYOB basis so they didn't have to stock wine or beer. This was partly for financial reasons and partly for religious reasons.

If you could operate on a BYOB basis and charge a corkage fee or for glasses or something like that, I know of someone who would be very interested, as it might make a business he has a plan for actually viable.

Bullseye1 · 27-07-2011 03:16PM

Local authority rates. It's a mystery to me how anyone can run a commercial enterprise in this country with the high rates and poor services provided by local authorities.

There is an obvious reason why the pint is so much more expensive than having it at home but you just can of replicate the crack in the pub with a few mates. Sadly those days are few and far between.

jetsonx · 27-07-2011 03:17PM

The main problems:

1) Cultural Problem in the Industry - An industry which always taken its customers for granted as (up until now) there has never been any real competition to the drinking culture in Ireland.

2) Poor Customer Service - Frankly, there are way too many Irish people who
work in this industry who are rude and aggressive. At least, the Chinese and E. Europeans who work in this industry actually seem to care about the job they perform.

3) Dim Witted Lobby Group - The Licensed Vintners Association is a joke of an organisation. Advertising pubs on the radio? Yes, there were funny ads. But they failed to tackle the real issues. Reminded me of British Rail in the 1980s telling everyone to "take the train" when at that time their service sucked. Those ads never worked either.

Reason behind the death of the Irish Pub

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