Why is so much of the Irish built environment so ugly?

gbee · 23-07-2011 10:38PM

Boxoffrogs wrote: »

They literally scream COUNCIL.

More accurately they scream unelected City Manager and cushy, lazy civil servants who don't give a dam.

Councils changed every 5 years, the driving force does not, the civil servants who are, as mentioned already NOT ELECTED and Not accountable.

Clareboy · 23-07-2011 11:27PM

Yes, there is an awful tackiness, an ugliness and a vulgarity about the Irish built environment, but it was not always like that. I live in a village that has several housing schemes that were built in the 1950s and they are far supieror in design to those built in more recent times. Since the 1950s, we have lost all sense of good design and aesthetics. All over Ireland, there is a depressing sameness about the new houses even down to the design of the door knockers. From Cork to Donegal, its the same gaudy bungalows and vulgar mini mansions that blight the landscape.

7sr2z3fely84g5 · 23-07-2011 11:34PM

Why did every FF gov contracts on building something always go over budget or delayed?.

landsleaving · 23-07-2011 11:35PM

gbee wrote: »

More accurately they scream unelected City Manager and cushy, lazy civil servants who don't give a dam.

Why would we need a dam?

oppenheimer1 · 23-07-2011 11:49PM

Daniel Loud Memoir wrote: »

Why did every FF gov contracts on building something always go over budget or delayed?.

What a lazy, ignorant comment to make. You obviously lack an understanding of the construction industry, particularly construction contract law. Almost all projects that have been given under the new fixed price contract have come in on time and under budget since they forced contractors to bid realistic prices for their work. (The old way was to bid the lowest best case scenario and put in claims for deviations and unexpected works, which always carried a premium price).

In any case tendering is outside the remit of elected government structures and is carried out by the independent civil service.

gbee · 24-07-2011 12:01AM

landsleaving wrote: »

Why would we need a dam?

To stop the brain flowing out an away, to prevent brainlessness, you'd need a dam. But in all honesty, the civil service in local authorities have been a disgrace; all those not in the Fire Service, Army, Guards or Prison Officers should be ashamed ~

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 24-07-2011 12:03AM

How about those apartments in Courtown? So horribly unsuitable for what was once a place with a lot of charm (street view)
I can't fathom why something like that was approved.
Meanwhile, down the road, sitting in this state for years - ( street view )

ricman · 24-07-2011 01:36AM

As posted before the new houses, apartments are built to a high standard
in ballymun,theres at least 6 different architects ,styles used ,as opposed to the old way ,build 500 houses , all which look the same.They are designed to a high spec ,better than many of the private apartments built in the boom ,and they are much larger than a standard apartment.The council had committees, and consulted with local residents about all the designs .I notice many apartment blocks ,with retail space on the ground floor,which is empty.In dublin most areas have enough shops already.Its strange the architecture of
the victorian era is much more attractive than most modern buildings,most apartments are just built cheaply with no regard for style,using basic materials.The thing that annoys me is modern art,sculptures, which look like random block shapes, many of which just get used for graffiti.I,m sure its possible to design art that s graffiti proof ,by using certain materials,do the planners even think of this in the planning stage.

MadsL · 24-07-2011 01:44AM

landsleaving wrote: »

Why would we need a dam?

Apparantly we do

dr gonzo · 25-07-2011 02:54PM

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ireland is in no way a particularly attractive or scenic nation.

In fairness every nationality in the world (bar the French) say that about their own country.

mconigol wrote: »

Boards needs an Ireland Bashing forum.

Boards IS an Ireland bashing forum. Also religion bashing forum annnd maybe a little bit of Israel bashing for good measure. I'd say attacks on these three entities make up the majority of threads, in AH anyway.

Tesco Massacre · 25-07-2011 03:17PM

And let's not forget the civic offices on Wood Quay. The government and architects involved had the opportunity to design something which might have been aesthetically pleasing and perhaps had some imagination or flair as well. Instead they went ahead and built something that not only makes no concessions to the surrounding area(i.e. it looks like it's been dropped onto the city), it also looks like something the Germans would have shot out of at Normandy.

Congrats, dip****s.

conorhal · 25-07-2011 03:21PM

Redlion wrote: »

Personally, I beg to differ.

A neon beercan.
An ode to the 70's wood pannel lounge
A grey box
A bedpan
And a Bond villans lair.

That's the best of Irish architecture?

dr gonzo · 25-07-2011 03:22PM

Tesco Massacre wrote: »

it also looks like something the Germans would have shot out of at Normandy.

So true, plus the archaeological implications of that build. I mean, i suppose its fitting that the civic offices would be built in the exact location where Dublin was born but it doesnt change the fact that our own government deliberately destroyed, arguably, the most significant Viking site in Europe at the time because they liked the spot.

In saying all that it was excavated professionally and thoroughly as far as im aware but it still feels wrong, and a lost opportunity.

professore · 25-07-2011 03:26PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Our colonial past has much to do with it.

Don't know how you can say this as the vast majority of the ugliness was built WELL AFTER independence.

Sergeant · 25-07-2011 03:31PM

It seemed you couldn't throw up a building in Galway during the Celtic Tiger without having to clad the thing in green copper. GMIT is an impressive looking building (in my opinion), but some of the newer buildings represent the very worst of modern planning and design.

conorhal · 25-07-2011 03:32PM

professore wrote: »

Don't know how you can say this as the vast majority of the ugliness was built WELL AFTER independence.

Indeed, the 'brutalist' vandalism of Georgian Dublin that took place during the 60's and 70's carries much of the blame for the mess they city is in, we were in such haste to prove what a modern, post-colonial country we were that we utterly destroyed much of our streetscapes. Naturally we followed it up with cultural vandalism during the 80's with Wood Quay and completed the trifecta with some economic vandalism that saw suburban sprawl and substandard development thrown up in our unseemly haste to ensure everybody owned three houses.

professore · 25-07-2011 03:38PM

It always amazed me that anything that in the countryside was not a one story rectangular block with optional Doric pillars and painted either white, yellow or bare plaster was deemed "not native to the environment" and refused planning.

Also the fear of anything over 3 stories until recently was only exceeded by the rush to skyscraper like developments at the end of the Celtic Tiger.

What strikes me about Ireland is that if you go just about anywhere the housing all looks the same - ugly and unimaginative - unless it's some of the nice classy timeless stuff the British built. A bit off topic, but as I have gotten older and escaped to some extent the brainwashing of Catholic Ireland I have seen more and more that the British, whilst they had their faults, did a lot of good for Ireland that we subsequently rejected - like tearing up all the tram lines - now there was a dumb move!

I suppose every teenager goes through a rebellious phase as part of the process of growing up, although Ireland now resembles the youth who had the perfect car, job and wife, blew it all and is now a bum.

EDIT: Sometimes two story rectangular blocks also got planning.

jumpguy · 25-07-2011 03:42PM

By and large, I agree with the OP. But then again, one must remember that Ireland had only been relatively prosperous since the 90's, so the amount of disgusting, tacky architecture isn't surprising to anyone, and isn't really an "Irish" thing, but a historical-poverty thing.

I think there's a few different types of ugly building in Ireland. The first is the ugly, antiquated colonial-era buildings that are small, with small windows and look prone to collapse at any moment. They're in small, rural areas everywhere in the country. While they have a historical value, they're an eyesore from an architecture point of view, in my opinion.

Then you've the Celtic-tiger era stuff that flew up in no time - dour-looking hotels and tacky, sprawling (and these days, mostly abandoned) housing estates. For the hotels, it's clear whatever architect was designing it just designed it so it could be put up as fast as possible. Boring, plain, rectangular buildings. The housing estates are just poorly designed, and have soaked up so much scenery that used to be available. They're like monuments of our greed during the Celtic Tiger now.

Rantan · 25-07-2011 04:00PM

I think the power of local councilors/local politicians has has a lot to do with this....planners get an awful lot of stick but from my experience the majority of bad decisions were not made by planners but at a level above them and usually by greasy haired gombeen men who accused any one who thought that the latest eyesore was a blot on the landscape of being a tree hugger, hippy etc
most small towns in Ireland have had their charm and character destroyed and are full of examples of buildings that openly contravene numerous planning regulations but still managed to get built. I think there is a shameful lack of municipal pride in Ireland - the majority of my mates, peers etc dont give a f** about theses matters.

Why is so much of the Irish built environment so ugly?

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