Oslo bombed

Turtwig · 23-07-2011 12:34PM

philologos wrote: »

He's incredibly well read. Tragically unfortunate that a clearly intelligent individual could be manipulated towards wreaking such havoc.

In fairness though, in hindsight any interest can be made to look like an indicator and I'm sure people with varying interests can be brought to such destruction.

In all honesty, we don't even know for certain if he read those books. I've seen plenty of people post "books" they like on Facebook and not even know the name of the main Character's siblings.:D

Thargor · 23-07-2011 12:35PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Hitler didn't wake up one day and decide he hated jews. A number of influences led him to this as well as his perceptions of what he saw around him.

Well maybe thats what happened with this guy? Its incredibly moronic to think Call of Duty could lead to this.

philologos · 23-07-2011 12:38PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

You can't ignore the influences that made him the way he is or led him to his actions.

Personally I think it was his zealous far-right point of view. Although before anyone attempts to pontificate about how left-is-best. Far-left points of view can be equally as zealous if we look at this recent bomb-plot of IBM in Switzerland by eco-anarchists.

Initially, I did suspect it was Islamic extremism, but this has been a good lesson not to jump to conclusions.

Nodin · 23-07-2011 12:38PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Hitler didn't wake up one day and decide he hated jews. A number of influences led him to this as well as his perceptions of what he saw around him.

And if you look at a few threads around here on immigrants, muslims and asylum seekers, you're far more likely to see that kind of thinking that in some video game.

Duggy747 · 23-07-2011 12:41PM

This is waaaaaaaay above a case of "video games made 'em do it"

Far more things lead to this. We don't even know all the facts yet as to what his motivation was.

Next they'll be saying he heard a Marilyn Manson song once.

philologos · 23-07-2011 12:42PM

Malty_T wrote: »

In all honesty, we don't even know for certain if he read those books. I've seen plenty of people post "books" they like on Facebook and not even know the name of the main Character's siblings.:D

If he got through the Critique of Pure Reason I can only say kudos to him because I find Immanuel Kant incredibly difficult to chew. Likewise with John Locke's An Essay Concerning Human Understanding.

Machiavelli's The Prince would provide enough cynicism for a life time :pac:
Plato's Republic is intriguing to say the least if not slightly bizarre in places. There are sections of it I haven't read though.

Some books there that I'll definitely be looking to read at some point.

23-07-2011 12:51PM

Thargor wrote: »

Horrible pic here of him shooting people on the shore, probably NSFW:

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/129/3051/original.jpg

There's what I presume to be a youth begging for their life in that photo.

Jesus.

Corsendonk · 23-07-2011 12:52PM

Thargor wrote: »

Horrible pic here of him shooting people on the shore, probably NSFW:

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/129/3051/original.jpg

I always am a little wary with the way some people love the voyeur aspect of the carnage from these images. Reminds me of years ago when I was rushing into the pc room in college to avail of the free printing early one morn and a fellow student was on his own watching a vid of a guy getting shot in the head while tied to a seat. Sick fcuker must have played the move 20 times in a row while I was there. One of the reasons they now have individual logins.

123balltv · 23-07-2011 12:55PM

Thargor wrote: »

Horrible pic here of him shooting people on the shore, probably NSFW:

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/129/3051/original.jpg

horrible

J. Marston · 23-07-2011 12:57PM

Thargor wrote: »

Horrible pic here of him shooting people on the shore, probably NSFW:

http://mediacdn.disqus.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/129/3051/original.jpg

That's awful, it looks there's a boy in the bottom left pleading with him to stop

.

FouxDaFaFa · 23-07-2011 01:12PM

Hearing stories about ordinary civilians who came out in boats and cars to try to rescue the children and then opened up their businesses and homes to take care of them. The norwegians seem to be very kind and decent people and it's just terrible this has happened to them.

WesternNight · 23-07-2011 01:14PM

FouxDaFaFa wrote: »

Hearing stories about ordinary civilians who came out in boats and cars to try to rescue the children and then opened up their businesses and homes to take care of them. The norwegians seem to be very kind and decent people and it's just terrible this has happened to them.

I'd like to think we'd have done the same in that situation.

Sgt. Sensible · 23-07-2011 01:23PM

Duggy747 wrote: »

Far more things lead to this. We don't even know all the facts yet as to what his motivation was.

I'd suggest having a look at his forum posts in that link I gave earlier. He bangs on about marxists and multiculturalism rather a lot. Also, stuff like this:

Best case scenario for Europe is that we end up with a super-capitalist system such as the U.S.with large sub-class / class differences.

scopper · 23-07-2011 01:31PM

For the record this constitutes the largest spree killing in history (the last being 57)

karma_ · 23-07-2011 01:33PM

scopper wrote: »

For the record this constitutes the largest spree killing in history (the last being 57)

I wouldn't call this a spree, it's more like domestic terrorism and a better comparison would be the Oklahoma city bombings, it's political, which spree killings generally are not.

MagicSean · 23-07-2011 01:35PM

Nodin wrote: »

And if you look at a few threads around here on immigrants, muslims and asylum seekers, you're far more likely to see that kind of thinking that in some video game.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that computer games made him do it. People make their own choices. I'm more interested in what would influence a person into making a decision to kill over 80 children in this way.

Lets put aside his motive for a minute and look at his method. The distraction bomb shows he was very well organised and could manufacture a remote bomb. Yet for some reason he decided to execute those children one by one. If a body count was his goal why would he not just detonate another bomb when they were all in the one place?

biko · 23-07-2011 01:36PM

Another man arrested at Sundvollen reception centre.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080636
English

Not known yet how/if he fits in with the mass murderer.

philologos · 23-07-2011 01:39PM

Is that the second or third person arrested now?

Haelium · 23-07-2011 01:41PM

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

I'm not suggesting for a minute that computer games made him do it. People make their own choices. I'm more interested in what would influence a person into making a decision to kill over 80 children in this way.

Lets put aside his motive for a minute and look at his method. The distraction bomb shows he was very well organised and could manufacture a remote bomb. Yet for some reason he decided to execute those children one by one. If a body count was his goal why would he not just detonate another bomb when they were all in the one place?

Anybody with a basic knowledge of electronics and chemistry could easily make a remote bomb.
As for why he shot people instead of using another bomb: Where would he hide a bomb in a camp? Also, people in a camp are spread out, a bomb would not have been as effective.

There is also the possibility that he was a psychopath and that he was doing this for enjoyment, to me this sounds like the columbine shooting, Eric Harris had planted a bomb to distract the authorities, it just didn't go off.

FouxDaFaFa · 23-07-2011 01:52PM

biko wrote: »

Another man arrested at Sundvollen reception centre.

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/oslobomben/artikkel.php?artid=10080636
English

Not known yet how/if he fits in with the mass murderer.

Apparently he was arrested because he was carrying a knife close to where the PM was giving his speech to the press. He might have nothing to do with it. He might have been "inspired" by yesterday to do something himself. Or he could just be a guy with no malice who happens to carry a knife for other purposes (fishing, etc).

Duggy747 · 23-07-2011 01:53PM

Short video with gunfire caught on tape from across the water. Non-graphic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shoYyoPK2Ro

Brutal that those people were alone with that psycho on the island.

Einhard · 23-07-2011 01:55PM

I imagine the idiots who jumped on the Islamophobia bandwagon, attributing this massacre to Norway's immigration system and open society are feeling pretty damn stupid now. Actually though, I doubt it. I'm sure they'll just forget about his little incident, and continue banging thew drum about how Muslims are to blame for all our ills, and how their freedoms should be curtailed.

Incidentally, I saw a few posts and comments, here and elsewhere, demanding that Muslim immigration should cease in the wake of these attacks. Considering the political and religious affiliations of the attacker, would these people now advocate a moratorium on Christian immigration, or a hardening of attitudes towards Christians? I mean, why idiotically tar only one group of people with the one brush?

Funny though, when some thought the suspect was a Muslim, we had all the usual comments about religion, and how Muslims are a threat. When it turns out he's a Christian, it's blamed on video games!!

Norwayviking · 23-07-2011 01:59PM

Einhard wrote: »

When it turns out he's a Christian, it's blamed on video games!!

And what if he is an Atheist,who do we blame then,God???
Maybe politics could be a motive,as it probably is in this case;)

Haelium · 23-07-2011 02:01PM

How exactly was he arrested? Did he give himself up? I can't see any police unit not shooting him on sight if he was armed.

philologos · 23-07-2011 02:01PM

Einhard: About as much as the atheism of the Finland school shooter was mentioned I suspect!

Courtesy of Wikipedia from that event:

He described himself in oxymoronic terms, “a cynical existentialist, antihuman humanist, antisocial social darwinist [sic], realistic idealist and godlike atheist” on his YouTube user page Sturmgeist89.

This event is overwhelmingly political as far as I see it.

Norwayviking · 23-07-2011 02:04PM

Haelium wrote: »

How exactly was he arrested? Did he give himself up? I can't see any police unit not shooting him on sight if he was armed.

How exactly was he arrested? Did he give himself up?

Yes he gave him self up and was arrested.

I can't see any police unit not shooting him on sight if he was armed

Mate this is Norway not USA;)

Einhard · 23-07-2011 02:05PM

Norwayviking wrote: »

And what if he is an Atheist,who do we blame then,God???
Maybe politics could be a motive,as it probably is in this case;)

There has never been an incident in history of an atheist harming another living creature. That's indisputable fact.

Seriously, I'm not stating that he acted on a religious impulse; indeed, I'd wager that it was a political action, or perhaps just one of these things for which there is no discernible motivation beyond the broken mind of a lunatic. My point was that, when a Muslim carries out an atrocity, his religion is immediately blamed by some people, and his co-religionists tarred with the same brush; when a Christian carries out the same act, even where religion might have played a part, the same people look for other motivations. If one is going to be a prejudiced ignoramus, at least one should be consistent about it!

weiland79 · 23-07-2011 02:09PM

What do you do with a person that kills that many people?

The normal rules don't seem to apply. Locking him up for the rest of his life just doesn't seem to cut it.

philologos · 23-07-2011 02:09PM

^^ Not really Einhard. If someone shoots people dead outside an abortion clinic (despite the irony) in America, I'll commonly associate it with people who have seriously warped Christian principles in order to justify such action.

This has the obvious stench of political motive rather than anything else, so that's why I'm on that track of mind at present. Political extremism is as bad as religious distortionism.

Einhard wrote: »

There has never been an incident in history of an atheist harming another living creature. That's indisputable fact.

Given the last century of world history this really deserves a :rolleyes:

suicide_circus · 23-07-2011 02:11PM

philologos wrote: »

This event is overwhelmingly political as far as I see it.

I'm not really comfotable calling this a political event because it feels like legitimising it...this is a grievous murderous event carried out by a person with profound pssychological and social problems. He may have thought it was political but what he thinks really dosnt count for much clearly. This is just a horrible, sad atrocity.

Oslo bombed

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