Oslo bombed

Kevin Duffy · 23-07-2011 12:20AM

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

You're pretty determined to air your mindless prejudices aren't you? Got any, ye know, evidence to back up your bolded claims there?

Stinicker wrote: »

I have no prejudices unlike yourself who can't tolerate a different opinion without calling me prejudiced. However for a person or persons to go out and do this tells you that something is very wrong in the country and multiculturalism has driven native extremists to carry out this attack as it now seems that it was domestic terrorism against the government most likely over their governments liberal immigration policy i.e white extremists targeting the leftwing liberals they perceive to be a threat to what they believe in.

So the answer was you have no evidence, just more mindless shíte. Ok, thanks.

23-07-2011 12:21AM

I can't remember where, or what station, but someone was postulating as to whether the guy who carried out the shooting was the same one who caused the explosion itself, mainly because he was supposedly seen in Oslo earlier on in the day.

Strange to think that it may have only been one person acting alone.

Stinicker · 23-07-2011 12:21AM

scopper wrote: »

There is plenty of space for the immigration debate but now is clearly not the appropiate time.

I totally agree, however there is never a debate on immigration only one side accusing the other of being racist bigots and then claiming the upper moral ground.

WesternNight · 23-07-2011 12:22AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

It turns out to be a white norwegian who was redponsible, but we'll blame "the muslims" anyway. "Sure he was driven to it."

I nearly spat out my tea earlier when I heard (possibly on Sky News but was flicking between the news channels so not sure) one of the 'experts' say that the people of Norway would have to look at what led to this, and that because these incidents are often the someone being politically disaffected, politicians would also have to look at what they've been doing that could have caused this.

Whatever about politicians, I couldn't believe that they were suggesting that the general population of Norway should accept even a tiny amount of responsibility for what happened today.

20Cent · 23-07-2011 12:23AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I can't remember where, or what station, but someone was postulating as to whether the guy who carried out the shooting was the same one who caused the explosion itself, mainly because he was supposedly seen in Oslo earlier on in the day.

Strange to think that it may have only been one person acting alone.

Hard to believe it could be one person. Place looks like Canary Wharf much bigger than a car bomb.

mike65 · 23-07-2011 12:23AM

Presumably Dunblain, Hungerford, Columbine, that Finish teenager and all other sudden killing sprees are also down to multi-culturalism then...

scopper · 23-07-2011 12:23AM

Stinicker wrote: »

I totally agree, however there is never a debate on immigration only one side accusing the other of being racist bigots and then claiming the upper moral ground.

Perhaps, but this is not the appropiate situation to have this debate around. It is to use a terrible situation to score political points. Even now you are doing it and it is as clear as an unmuddied lake. You will not convince anyone in these circumstances so best come back to fight another day.

The Left Hand Of God · 23-07-2011 12:24AM

southsiderosie wrote: »

Really? Because from what we know so far (i.e. almost nothing), it tells me that there is something very wrong with this individual.

I can think of no social or political situation in the world that could plausibly be blamed for or used to justify a man shooting down packs of children in cold blood. None.

You should ask Sky News have they any jobs going.

23-07-2011 12:24AM

If you do a Facebook search for the name Anders Breivik, there are already groups popping up denouncing him.

Sardonicat · 23-07-2011 12:25AM

mike65 wrote: »

Presumably Dunblain, Hungerford, Columbine, that Finish teenager and all other sudden killing sprees are also down to multi-culturalism then...

You beat me to it, Mike.

Kevin Duffy · 23-07-2011 12:25AM

Stinicker wrote: »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/22/why-norway-attacked_n_907215.html

Neo-Nazi's tend to get very pissed off when Foreigners come to their homelands.

That's evidence in your head, is it?

prinz · 23-07-2011 12:26AM

WesternNight wrote: »

Whatever about politicians, I couldn't believe that they were suggesting that the general population of Norway should accept even a tiny amount of responsibility for what happened today.

I don't think it is responsibility so much as just trying to figure out why. The same things are said every time some kid brings a gun into school and shoots a load others, people always ask why society let this person down. It's natural to wonder if somebody could have spotted the signs, or if somebody was marginalised and driven to extremism.

Stinicker · 23-07-2011 12:27AM

scopper wrote: »

Perhaps, but this is not the appropiate situation to have this debate around. It is to use a terrible situation to score political points. Even now you are doing it and it is as clear as an unmuddied lake. You will not convince anyone in these circumstances so best come back to fight another day.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything rather simply discussing possible motives for the attack like Sky News did earlier. Obviosuly something caused a person to do this, normal people don't wake up one morning and decide Gee, lets kill massacre some people today. It appears quite clear it was a disaffected fringe extremist who carried out todays attacks and I was trying to illustrate possible motives wheter it be islamic or homegrown terror.

jill_valentine · 23-07-2011 12:29AM

20Cent wrote: »

Hard to believe it could be one person. Place looks like Canary Wharf much bigger than a car bomb.

Breivik apparently ran a "geofarming" company. He would have had access to huge quantities of the component chemicals required.

EDIT:

There's a good chance that the company was set up for that purpose.

PseudoFamous · 23-07-2011 12:30AM

I'm slightly worried that the guy who supposedly did this has the same music tastes as me, and he's not the first mass murderer I've seen that has. Uh-oh.

scopper · 23-07-2011 12:31AM

Stinicker wrote: »

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything rather simply discussing possible motives for the attack like Sky News did earlier. Obviosuly something caused a person to do this, normal people don't wake up one morning and decide Gee, lets kill massacre some people today. It appears quite clear it was a disaffected fringe extremist who carried out todays attacks and I was trying to illustrate possible motives wheter it be islamic or homegrown terror.

I wish I could believe you, but your original message was as transparent in its desire to drag the conversation down to Muslim bashing as one could imagine. You may be missing how see-through you are due to your ideological framing, but it is not lost on the rest of us. Hence the reaction to your point-scoring.

Sardonicat · 23-07-2011 12:31AM

prinz wrote: »

I don't think it is responsibility so much as just trying to figure out why. The same things are said every time some kid brings a gun into school and shoots a load others, people always ask why society let this person down..

Sure, but it's one thing to ask what's going on in a society that can result in such an atrocity and another thing to automatically assume we know what is wrong (multi-culturalism) and that is what is responsible.

Maybe this man is dissafected by something is Norwegian/northern European society, but ultimately we each have choices as individuals. Unless this man is psychotic (which I doubt) then HE and HE ALONE is responsible for what happened today.

scopper · 23-07-2011 12:33AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Maybe this man is dissafected by something is Norwegian/northern European society, but ultimately we each have choices as individuals. Unless this man is psychotic (which I doubt) then HE and HE ALONE is responsible for what happened today.

A man who shoots unarmed kids on an island...I think psychotic nails it. If you doubt this maybe you need to examine your how your mind operates.

Sir Oxman · 23-07-2011 12:34AM

OPENROAD wrote: »

They are a news channel , of course they are going to speculate and bring in various analysts.

Well that's just it, if they were a news channel they'd report the news not try to make it!
Can't stand the fcukers! or most of the 24hr 'opinion' channels.

Turtwig · 23-07-2011 12:35AM

I don't get this the whole "something wrong with society" bullsh1t. Why does anything have to be wrong with society for someone to kill someone or blow stuff up?

Sardonicat · 23-07-2011 12:35AM

jill_valentine wrote: »

Breivik apparently ran a "geofarming" company. He would have had access to huge quantities of the component chemicals required.

EDIT:

There's a good chance that the company was set up for that purpose.

OR he is a pissed off eco-extremist? See, the options are endless and we shouldn't be focusing on multi-culturalism at this stage. We will discover the facts soon enough.

prinz · 23-07-2011 12:36AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Maybe this man is dissafected by something is Norwegian/northern European society, but ultimately we each have choices as individuals. Unless this man is psychotic (which I doubt) then HE and HE ALONE is responsible for what happened today.

Absolutely he is responsible, but I don't think anything is learned by assuming the wider society is fine and move on. I think it's healthy when something like this happens that time is taken to reflect on the national conscience and see if any improvements could be made.

jill_valentine · 23-07-2011 12:37AM

Malty_T wrote: »

I don't get this the whole "something wrong with society" bullsh1t. Why does anything have to be wrong with society for someone to kill someone or blow stuff up?

Norway shouldn't have dressed so provocatively etc, etc.

prinz · 23-07-2011 12:38AM

Malty_T wrote: »

I don't get this the whole "something wrong with society" bullsh1t. Why does anything have to be wrong with society for someone to kill someone or blow stuff up?

It doesn't have to be, but sometimes there is. It's not excusing what they do, but there could be lessons to learn too.

Sardonicat · 23-07-2011 12:38AM

scopper wrote: »

A man who shoots unarmed kids on an island...I think psychotic nails it. If you doubt this maybe you need to examine your how your mind operates.

Or perhaps you educate yourself as to what psychotic means.

There is a huge difference between someone suffering from psychosis and a cold blooded killer.

scopper · 23-07-2011 12:38AM

prinz wrote: »

Absolutely he is responsible, but I don't think anything is learned by assuming the wider society is fine and move on. I think it's healthy when something like this happens that time is taken to reflect on the national conscience and see if any improvements could be made.

This is like blaming a rape victim. The thing to do is to focus on the extremist right-wing logic that led to this i.e. the extremist perspective on immigration and multiculturalism.

PseudoFamous · 23-07-2011 12:38AM

Just out of interest, what channel are most people watching? BBC are interviewing some white Zimbabwean farmer, and Sky has turned American for the rest of the night. Obviously, I'm watching the internet hard.

Stinicker · 23-07-2011 12:39AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

OR he is a pissed off eco-extremist? See, the options are endless and we shouldn't be focusing on multi-culturalism at this stage. We will discover the facts soon enough.

Will we ever know? It could also very well be a false flag operation, something which is now appearing very likely imo. It wouldn't be the first time an extremist was fooled into carrying out an attack which suited his enemy perfectly and played the ball straight into their hands. However there is already a thread on this over by the conspiracy theories forum.

Sardonicat · 23-07-2011 12:39AM

prinz wrote: »

Absolutely he is responsible, but I don't think anything is learned by assuming the wider society is fine and move on. I think it's healthy when something like this happens that time is taken to reflect on the national conscience and see if any improvements could be made.

Fully agree, but less then 24 hours later, wild specualtion is unhelpful.

scopper · 23-07-2011 12:40AM

Sardonicat wrote: »

Or perhaps you educate yourself as to what psychotic means.

There is a huge difference between someone suffering from psychosis and a cold blooded killer.

I understand what psychotic means. He lost touch with the norms of his society, its reality and change to a more open society, and innocent people suffered. He is the odd one here.

Oslo bombed

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