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Oslo bombed

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Comments

  • #92
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Seems to be awfully intact for a car bomb causing that much damage. I don't think that's it.

    I was about 100 yards away from this one when it blew:
    http://data.primeportal.net/iraq/VWBomb.JPG

    You can see how little of the car was left afterwards
    http://data.primeportal.net/iraq/carbomb1.jpg

    Other than bits of car landing around the area, no particular hazard, not a huge crater, and a completely obliterated car. I'd wager that the Oslo bomb was bigger than the one in the Passat I met.

    NTM

    If the bomb exploded around some narrow streets in the Oslo area, might that have magnified the effects of the bomb? The energy from a shock-wave in a deserted area would have dissipated a lot faster and over a shorter area than in a city centre.


  • #93
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,959 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    If it's a war then both sides have to prepare for losses.

    The difference being that the Norwegians are, as best I know, making an honest attempt to kill only people who are categorised as legitimate targets. I am unconvinced that Oslo City Centre and the people in the area are liable to be categorised as such. The comparison might stop right there. Government buildings would, however, count as a valid objective, so you would have to look at exactly where the bomb was compared to anything else in the city. However, again, if you're going to try to follow the laws of war, you also have the problem that the combatants must be clearly identifiable when conducting their military operations. Which, likely, is legitimacy fail here too, so yet again, the comparison pretty much fails.

    NTM


  • #94
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    The difference being that the Norwegians are, as best I know, making an honest attempt to kill only people who are categorised as legitimate targets. I am unconvinced that Oslo City Centre and the people in the area are liable to be categorised as such. The comparison might stop right there. Government buildings would, however, count as a valid objective, so you would have to look at exactly where the bomb was compared to anything else in the city. However, again, if you're going to try to follow the laws of war, you also have the problem that the combatants must be clearly identifiable when conducting their military operations. Which, likely, is legitimacy fail here too, so yet again, the comparison pretty much fails.

    NTM
    Easy to follow rules when you can carry out attacks with impunity.
    stevenmu wrote: »
    Should I just assume that you're trying to argue that not everything is so black and white, but lack the eloquence to do so properly?
    Do as you feel. :)


  • #95
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    amacachi wrote: »
    Easy to follow rules when you can carry out attacks with impunity.
    :confused:
    The Norweigans (and Irish) are serving in the ISAF in Afghanistan as part of a UN Resolution.


  • #96
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,959 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Easy to follow rules when you can carry out attacks with impunity.

    Yes. Who said wars had to be fair?
    If the bomb exploded around some narrow streets in the Oslo area, might that have increased magnified the effects of the bomb? The energy from a shock-wave in a deserted area would have dissipated a lot faster and over a shorter area than in a city centre.

    The logic is sound, but 'confined' though the area may be compared to the open fields, it's nowhere near confined enough to cause the effect you're thinking of. I don't have the photos online to link to, but the Passat was not the only car bomb I encountered, one of the others was in a city (Again, I was within 200 yards)* and, again, not near that level of devastation.

    NTM

    *One of the sillier radio calls I've ever made: "Crazyhorse 69, Red 1. I'm at the instersection that intel reported the Vee-Bed, but I don't see anything which looks (BOOM).... never mind"


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  • #97
    super_furry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,363 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    No(r) way they're going to get away with this!


  • #98
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Malty_T wrote: »
    :confused:
    The Norweigans (and Irish) are there as part of a UN Resolution.

    I didn't just mean legally, hard to defend against planes dropping bombs from a few dozen thousand feet up.


  • #99
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    There is also the small fact that (presuming this is Afghan related) the people who the Norwegians are fighting kill a lot more innocent people than then Norwegians do.


  • #100
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Yes. Who said wars had to be fair?

    But once "we" set the rules to suit ourselves then we can wash our hands of it when the big bad guys break them.


  • #101
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Rather off topic but this is where "real time" on google used to be so handy, pity they ditched their arrangement with twitter.


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  • #102
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    amacachi wrote: »
    I didn't just mean legally, hard to defend against planes dropping bombs from a few dozen thousand feet up.

    What about troops on the ground? They certainly are vulnerable and exposed to tonnes of risks that could easily be reduced if they decided an approach similar to this attack.


  • #103
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    mike65 wrote: »
    Rather off topic but this is where "real time" on google used to be so handy, pity they ditched their arrangement with twitter.

    Aye, twitter's Goddamn useless with Google's help.


  • #104
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,959 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    But once "we" set the rules to suit ourselves then we can wash our hands of it when the big bad guys break them.

    No, we can't. The big guys have to be held to the same standards. And, more often than not, they're also the ones who break them the least because, as has been mentioned, they can afford to follow them.

    The applicability of the laws of war (and, in my personal opinion, the stupidity of them, but I have to follow them anyway) is topic for another debate.

    Which, you'll find here..
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055453853

    and here.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055509814

    NTM


  • #105
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Malty_T wrote: »
    What about troops on the ground? They certainly are vulnerable and exposed to tonnes of risks that could easily be reduced if they decided an approach similar to this attack.

    If the people who carry out attacks like today could walk around with machine guns no problem I'm sure they'd go for more shootings than bombings, they're just doing what they can.


  • #106
    sheesh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,082 ✭✭✭sheesh


    sollar wrote: »
    I would like to ban all Muslims from Ireland. Show me a country where they have integrated well and brought something positive.

    Austria they do good work in their kebab shops there. I won't hear a word against them!!!


  • #107
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    No, we can't. The big guys have to be held to the same standards. And, more often than not, they're also the ones who break them the least because, as has been mentioned, they can afford to follow them.

    The applicability of the laws of war (and, in my personal opinion, the stupidity of them, but I have to follow them anyway) is topic for another debate.

    Which, you'll find here..
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055453853

    and here.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055509814

    NTM

    "Big bad guys", not the big guys. I said myself it's the boogiemen who usually break them first (partly) because they're set-up to suit to suit big, equipped militaries.


  • #108
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Website from VG Tabloid, whose offices were hit.

    Prophet Mohammed cartoons were published here.

    http://www.vg.no/


  • #109
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,959 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    "Big bad guys", not the big guys.

    Apologies, misunderstood.

    NTM


  • #110
    Jaafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Jaafa


    Gaddafi anyone?


  • #111
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,413 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Shots fired at children's summer camp on an island in Norway.


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  • #112
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Jaafa wrote: »
    Gaddafi anyone?

    I'd be surprised. He is not doing badly in the libyan civil war, as far as the west intervention goes all he has to do is wait them out. He does something like this and it's full scale invasion time.


  • #113
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Shots fired at children's summer camp on an island in Norway.

    What is this based on ?


  • #114
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Morlar wrote: »
    What is this based on ?
    SKY news live.


  • #115
    FouxDaFaFa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    BBC are saying that a man dressed a policeman opened fire at a Labour Youth camp outside of Oslo.Not sure if it's connected and hope reports are being exaggerated.

    Police seem eager to get people out of the city centre in case something else happens.


  • #116
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,581 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Case closed?

    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2002541,00.html

    I think this is more to do with Norwegian home-grown Islamic terrorism.


  • #117
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    SKY news live.

    Is the reasoning that the events are linked and this is co-ordinated ? Is the school one confirmed ? Domestic ?


  • #118
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,413 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Morlar wrote: »
    Is the reasoning that the events are linked and this is co-ordinated ? Is the school one confirmed ? Domestic ?

    The police have confirmed shots have been fired at the camp. A man dressed as a policeman fired shots.


  • #119
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    The police have confirmed shots have been fired at the camp. A man dressed as a policeman fired shots.

    Jesus.


  • #120
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,413 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Sky reporter said that people are apparently swimming in the sea to get off the island in Norway. Unconfirmed of course.


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  • #121
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    The summer camp is being used as a venue for the ruling party. So no matter how you slice it this is a political attack on the state of Norway.


This discussion has been closed.
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