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Time to ditch the church from the constitution?

  • 20-07-2011 07:20PM
    #1
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭


    Personally I think it's long, long overdue - but now perhaps it might actually have majority support.

    In the light of the Vatican valuing the wealth and 'reputation' of the church ahead of protecting children from rapists, is it time for a referendum to expunge the 'special position' of the Catholic Church from our constitution?

    Should references to the Catholic church be removed from the constitution? 249 votes

    Yes
    0% 0 votes
    No
    100% 249 votes


«134

Comments

  • #2
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    A referendum already removed the church/state link.


  • #3
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,098 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I think we should also ban the Angelus and "Do you swear to Almighty God to tell the truth"? Also get rid of priests out of Hospitals, I was in Hospital once and one came around to see how the patients in the ward were? It made me very angry to see him there. I hate the church and catholicism.


  • #4
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Also laws to remove all religious idols from public property.


  • #5
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Min wrote: »
    A referendum already removed the church/state link.

    What's this bit in the preamble about, then? The explicit link may be gone, but this stuff has no place either IMV.
    In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity, from Whom
    is all authority and to Whom, as our final end, all
    actions both of men and States must be referred,
    We, the people of Éire,
    Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our
    Divine Lord, Jesus Christ


  • #6
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Monty, maybe you should read the constitution, the "special position" is gone.


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  • #7
    sdanseo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    One more religion thread and I'm gonna be posting a thread about how much we all hate religion threads. Don't make me be that guy, please.

    It's as if AH has nothing to talk about but Recession, Molestation and drunken ginger ninjas. Seriously. Just stop.

    TLDR = GTFO, OP. Unoriginal.


  • #8
    Knasher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    Considering the constitution has the freedom of religion clauses and says the state can't endow any religion, it is a little bit ridiculous that it mentions Jesus in the preamble.


  • #9
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    What's this bit in the preamble about, then?
    Thats the preamble, not the constitution itself, its grand the way it is.


  • #10
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Thats the preamble, not the constitution itself, its grand the way it is.
    Maybe it is for people who believe in that stuff. I'd rather it was something that everybody can get behind.


  • #11
    JBnaglfar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 841 ✭✭✭JBnaglfar


    We, the people of Éire,
    Humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our
    Divine Lord, Jesus Christ
    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Thats the preamble, not the constitution itself, its grand the way it is.

    Preamble or not, I acknowledge no such obligation.


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  • #12
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    When you say church, I assume you mean catholic, of which all mention has already been removed from the constitution.

    What you want is all reference to Christianity and God removed.... at least get it right.


  • #13
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    sdeire wrote: »
    One more religion thread and I'm gonna be posting a thread about how much we all hate religion threads. Don't make me be that guy, please.

    It's as if AH has nothing to talk about but Recession, Molestation and drunken ginger ninjas. Seriously. Just stop.

    TLDR = GTFO, OP. Unoriginal.

    Go start your original thread, rather than posting here? :)


  • #14
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    When you say church, I assume you mean catholic, of which all mention has already been removed from the constitution.

    What you want is all reference to Christianity and God removed.... at least get it right.
    Meh. Same difference. I don't care what label you put on it once it's gone.


  • #15
    Knasher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭Knasher


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Thats the preamble, not the constitution itself, its grand the way it is.

    There is presidence for preambles having legal effects. Additionally the European Constitution had its preamble redacted because it mentioned christianity. So it does count as part of the constitution and it can have legal standing.


  • #16
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Shut it all down. Only a scam anyway.


  • #17
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    JBnaglfar wrote: »
    Preamble or not, I acknowledge no such obligation.

    Amen, so to speak.


  • #18
    sdanseo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,300 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Go start your original thread, rather than posting here? :)


    Grand so.


  • #19
    Naikon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,564 ✭✭✭Naikon


    I support this move.


  • #20
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Knasher wrote: »
    There is presidence for preambles having legal effects. Additionally the European Constitution had its preamble redacted because it mentioned christianity. So it does count as part of the constitution and it can have legal standing.
    Never in this country, even the unionists didn't kick up a fuss over the preamble.

    Why the hell would you want to go to the cost of a referendum to change something which is meaningless and wont be invoked, and even if it could, I fail to see exactly HOW it could in any even vaguely meaningful way.


  • #21
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    The whole constitution needs to be modernised. It's absurd that so much religious crap remains in it.

    The Oath taken by Presidents contains the following gem -
    "In the presence of Almighty God I ,do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will maintain the Constitution of Ireland and uphold its laws, that I will fulfil my duties faithfully and conscientiously in accordance with the Constitution and the law, and that I will dedicate my abilities to the service and welfare of the people of Ireland. May God direct and sustain me."

    Wouldn't it be awful to make an irreligious person take that oath?


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  • #22
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Also laws to remove all religious idols from public property.

    As long as it concerns all religious peraphernalia


  • #23
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I think we should also ban the Angelus.

    Yeah that really really has to go. That awful banging just as your eating your dinner tired after getting back from work :mad:


  • #24
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Why the hell would you want to go to the cost of a referendum to change something which is meaningless and wont be invoked, and even if it could, I fail to see exactly HOW it could in any even vaguely meaningful way.
    Let's not take the chance, huh? Just hold the referendum on the same day as some other election and it costs nothing.

    Get rid of it before it's there forever as a silly protected anachronism like the British royals, and you can't remove it because it's 'traditional'.


  • #25
    sollar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭sollar


    BTW i have nothing against religion i just think it should be a private matter.


  • #26
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    For all the bashing Dev gets, he wrote a very modern, liberal, constitution.


  • #27
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Let's not take the chance, huh? Just hold the referendum on the same day as some other election and it costs nothing.

    Get rid of it before it's there forever as a silly protected anachronism like the British royals, and you can't remove it because it's 'traditional'.
    Take what chance? Its not the constitution, its just a bit of meaningless writing at the start.


  • #28
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    I think the Roman Catholic link in the set up to the Irish Republic is critical in the essence of what the constitution stands for in your country. I think the majority would like to keep it that way.


  • #29
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I think the Roman Catholic link in the set up to the Irish Republic is critical in the essence of what the constitution stands for in your country. I think the majority would like to keep it that way.

    Check how the poll is going so far and stick your Loyalist preconceptions where the sun don't shine.


  • #30
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Skunkle wrote: »
    Shut it all down. Only a scam anyway.

    FYP: Shut it all down. Only a cult anyway.


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  • #31
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I think the Roman Catholic link in the set up to the Irish Republic is critical in the essence of what the constitution stands for in your country. I think the majority would like to keep it that way.
    Keith, take your bigoted assumptions and generalistaions elsewhere, like youtube where you post your bile uncensored and untempered as recently revealed on the politics forum.


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