Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

How do I leave Christianity?

2»

Comments

  • #32
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    NekkidBibleMan wrote: »
    Cool. Hope it's alright that I count you as a member of a club I've just started. We'll be staging rallies against homosexuality and women's rights. Don't worry if you can't make it, you're still in the club!

    My point is that it would be just a claim with no weight.

    Karsini: Surely atheism is no more difficult than deciding that you don't believe in a god. Likewise joining another faith is as simple as going to another congregation.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    philologos wrote: »
    My point is that it would be just a claim with no weight.

    Karsini: Surely atheism is no more difficult than deciding that you don't believe in a god. Likewise joining another faith is as simple as going to another congregation.

    Ah, so is there no official "conversion" as such? You just go to the new congregation?


  • #34
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Karsini wrote: »
    Ah, so is there no official "conversion" as such? You just go to the new congregation?

    Depends on the religion. For example most Jewish congregations will expect circumcision bar Reform Jews, and most Islamic congregations will expect you to make your Shahadah, but none that will require a letter from your bishop to say that they recognise you as non-Catholic. As for other Christian denominations it is simply joining a church.


  • #35
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    philologos wrote: »
    My point is that it would be just a claim with no weight.

    Right, but claims with no weight are the reason we have libel and slander laws. People and organisations can't just make claims without weight.

    But if you're really not bothered, that's cool. My club that you're a member of are going to steal some orphan's puppies tomorrow evening. See you there (or not)!


  • #36
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    NekkidBibleMan wrote: »
    Right, but claims with no weight are the reason we have libel and slander laws. People and organisations can't just make claims without weight.

    But if you're really not bothered, that's cool. My club that you're a member of are going to steal some orphan's puppies tomorrow evening. See you there (or not)!

    I don't think you're understanding why I wouldn't be bothered if I were in such a situation. I wouldn't be particularly bothered precisely because I know that that claim has no validity, I know that the statistics that really count are census figures. If I decided to leave the current church I'm in and they happened to have records left over about me I wouldn't be all that upset. Heck, I wouldn't be all that surprised. Although I do doubt that my current church would use those figures over figures of active church attendance, participation or the census results.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Stealing orphans' puppies you say? I love stomping on the dreams of innocent children, can I join this club?


  • #38
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    philologos wrote: »
    I don't think you're understanding why I wouldn't be bothered if I were in such a situation. I wouldn't be particularly bothered precisely because I know that that claim has no validity, I know that the statistics that really count are census figures. If I decided to leave the current church I'm in and they happened to have records left over about me I wouldn't be all that upset. Heck, I wouldn't be all that surprised. Although I do doubt that my current church would use those figures over figures of active church attendance, participation or the census results.

    Do you understand why people would be bothered? Regardless of whether you know that a claim made about you has no validity, it's still a claim that is being made and is being heard by people who won't view it with as much skepticism.

    Census figures are obviously the key numbers looked at my governments (or at least, they should be!), but they're not the only figures. The church counts me as a Catholic, regardless of what I put in the census.


  • #39
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    The Mad Hatter wrote: »
    The Catholic Church aren't doing that any more.
    krudler wrote: »
    they've changed it so you cant do this now, dirty scumbags that they are

    Coupla weeks ago they seemed up for it and sent the form and all.


  • #40
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    NekkidBibleMan wrote: »
    Do you understand why people would be bothered? Regardless of whether you know that a claim made about you has no validity, it's still a claim that is being made and is being heard by people who won't view it with as much skepticism.

    As I've said, the skepticism will come in when people start to see imbalances by comparing census figures with church figures, or with church attendance figures. I don't think it's much to get stressed about.
    NekkidBibleMan wrote: »
    Census figures are obviously the key numbers looked at my governments (or at least, they should be!), but they're not the only figures. The church counts me as a Catholic, regardless of what I put in the census.

    I've not heard of a case where the Government has looked to church figures above their own census figures, can you?

    The RCC is a church that you've decided you have nothing to do with. Do what you've decided to do in full if you wish to disregard the RCC in your life. If they decide to be dishonest with their figures they'll be caught out. It's a curious comparison that I note that ex-RCC's are much more interested in wiping every last record whereas people of other backgrounds who lapse don't seem to be as interested.


  • #41
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    philologos wrote: »
    [...] most Jewish congregations will expect circumcision bar Reform Jews, and most Islamic congregations will expect you to make your Shahadah, but none that will require a letter from your bishop to say that they recognise you as non-Catholic. As for other Christian denominations it is simply joining a church.
    I'd love to hear you explain that to a Martian.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    philologos wrote: »
    As I've said, the skepticism will come in when people start to see imbalances by comparing census figures with church figures, or with church attendance figures. I don't think it's much to get stressed about.

    I'm not stressed about it. But it is annoying that I am affiliated with an organisation that promotes completely opposing views to my own on a variety of personal freedom and human rights issues.
    I've not heard of a case where the Government has looked to church figures above their own census figures, can you?

    I don't know. But there's more to it than just the statistics governments use. The church use their own figures, and count anybody who has been baptised.
    The RCC is a church that you've decided you have nothing to do with. Do what you've decided to do in full if you wish to disregard the RCC in your life. If they decide to be dishonest with their figures they'll be caught out.

    They are dishonest, though. I'm counted by them as a member of their church, even though I don't want to be.
    It's a curious comparison that I note that ex-RCC's are much more interested in wiping every last record whereas people of other backgrounds who lapse don't seem to be as interested.

    Perhaps that's because few other churches are quite as disgusting as the RCC.


  • #43
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    robindch wrote: »
    I'd love to hear you explain that to a Martian.

    Why the hell would a microbe care?!!?


  • #44
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    philologos wrote: »
    It's a curious comparison that I note that ex-RCC's are much more interested in wiping every last record whereas people of other backgrounds who lapse don't seem to be as interested.
    If you check, I think you'll find that ex-rcc's are disgusted that the Vatican still counts them amongst its supporters.

    It took me five hours from learning that my snowflake had secured a place in an Educate Together school to me phoning the church where I was baptized (obviously without my informed consent) to request that I be no longer considered one of their supporters.

    It would have been five minutes, but it was a busy day at work that day.


  • #45
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Why the hell would a microbe care?!!?
    Microbe? Didn't you hear? :confused:


  • #46
    vibe666
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    loconnor1001 wrote: »
    Are you serious?
    qudd7S


  • #47
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    philologos wrote: »
    I find it interesting why so many people care about what a church which they claim to have nothing to do with thinks about them. The Census is the most important record of religious belief in state policy. If church figures happen to grossly disagree with the census figures then it is obvious to any observer that the church figures are wrong.

    given the gross atrocities performed by them, maybe people are just upset that such an organisation is claiming to be doing things in THEIR name for one.

    For two... people are leaving the church to send that church a message about how they feel about such gross misconduct. If the church ignores that and considers them to be still "members" then that is the church telling them that "We do not care what you do say or think... we will just put our hands over our ears and go lalalalala". Ignoring peoples choice to leave is simply insulting and there is utility in pointing that out so people can see what they are truly like. A sick, perverse group of insular people entirely disconnected from their "flock" and they do not care that they are either.


  • #48
    AndywK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭AndywK


    Good discussion here folks,

    I think what a lot of people don't understand is that if I don't want to be a member of affilated with a group then I would have the right to not be asssociated with said group.

    I am aware of the Cenus figures etc... But that doesent matter. I want to leave the church ye see.

    Thanks again


  • #49
    Denalihighway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭Denalihighway


    guys, has this amendment to canon law (gives me the shivers just saying it...) been viewed as a deliberate attempt by the RCC to complicate the process of leaving the church?


  • #50
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    AndywK wrote: »
    Good discussion here folks,

    I think what a lot of people don't understand is that if I don't want to be a member of affilated with a group then I would have the right to not be asssociated with said group.

    I am aware of the Cenus figures etc... But that doesent matter. I want to leave the church ye see.

    Thanks again

    The thing is that you have the right as of now to not be associated with said group. They may have whatever statistics or documents they want to say that person X was baptised here, but that doesn't mean diddly squat ultimately if you've decided to reject that.


  • #51
    BrianOFlanagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 179 ✭✭BrianOFlanagan


    AndywK,, if you figure out how to do this keep us posted. I'd be interested in doing the same thing purely as a matter of principle.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    So can we go steal puppies and otherwise ruin childrens' happiness today, phil? This club we're both in wasn't invented for nothing, after all.


  • #53
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Sarky, I think pretty much all I've needed to explain about that analogy are on previous pages. Such a group could claim me as a member if they desired, but they would have no tangible basis for doing so, which is also true of this case.


  • #54
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Are you sure? It's a popular club. There are about 3 billion members at this stage, including you!


  • #55
    Cavehill Red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    It strikes me that if transgendered people receive the right to retrospectively amend records like birth certificates, then there is no defence for the Catholic Church to argue against changing baptismal records.


  • #56
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Certain :pac:

    Let me know when you're willing to respond effectively to the actual point being made :)


  • #57
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Says the guy who completely ignored my points above and generally runs away from points I make on other threads. Pot.... meet the kettle.... you're going to get on well.


  • #58
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,395 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Absolute beggars belief that not believing in god isn't enough to leave!


  • #59
    Norwayviking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Norwayviking


    Treora wrote: »
    , we could live in a country that observes religion as much as Japan or Norway or Sweden or Finland or Denmark. Crazy countries..

    Yes and i rather believe in Odin and Thor.And my place is going to be in Valhall.:D


  • #60
    goingpostal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 858 ✭✭✭goingpostal


    In my opinion, the first and by far the most important step to leaving Christianity, is to repudiate and reject any claims of dominion over you or your mind, that Christianity makes.


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    vibe666
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭vibe666


    Treora wrote: »
    Image, we could live in a country that observes religion as much as Japan or Norway or Sweden or Finland or Denmark. Crazy countries..
    not to be pedantic, but all those countries you mentioned have wildly different religious views and everything from almost no belief in any sort of god at all to a pretty high percentage of people believing in some sort of god.

    but yes, all crazy countries. :)


Advertisement