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How do I leave Christianity?

  • 16-07-2011 01:28AM
    #1
    AndywK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭


    Well as the title says.

    I was baptized into the religion but never had any interest in it. Infact I still can't comprehend how people can believe it(yes you guessed it,I'm an Atheist). I have no problems with people having faith but this is not for me.

    I am against the aspect of religion personally, so I do not want to have a Catholic Funeral etc...... Who does one contact to be removed from the religion. The local priest or is there some sort of board or something?

    Thanks in advance.


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Comments

  • #2
    im invisible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,372 ✭✭✭im invisible


    do nothing....


  • #3
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    There is apparently a formal process to leave the Catholic church, but you could simply say 'no religion' when asked by any State body, such as when you enter hospital. That should be enough to ensure that if anything happens to you you are not accidently given religious treatment.


  • #4
    AndywK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭AndywK


    No I actually want my name removed from all traces of religion. So I would be a fully fledged atheist. There has to be a way I can actually leave the religion since I was baptized into it.

    This isn't a personal attack against the church, it would be the same if I was Buddhist,Mormon,Cao Dai etc...... Just in case anyone takes the post the wrong way or tries to convince me to "stay"

    Thanks again


  • #5
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    AndywK wrote: »
    No I actually want my name removed from all traces of religion.

    Are you including the parish register when you were baptized?
    As they will not remove you from this, it was a record at the time


  • #6
    AndywK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭AndywK


    Really? Interesting....So there is no process to unregister so to say?

    I just want to be fully recognized as an atheist, nothing more, nothing less. But I just want my name completley dissasociated with every aspect of the church. The more I can get away from it the better, keep the advice coming!


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  • #7
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    This should be in A&A for starters. Assuming the church you are in is the RC church then no - there is no longer a way to leave it - formal defection is no longer possible.

    For ceremoniesm - including funerals - you can choose your own. You do not need to have a religious ceremony for anything.

    To be an atheist defecting is not a pre-requisite. You won't be grilled at atheist conventions. Atheism is what you are - not what you were. There's no membership T&Cs to make you a 'fully-fledged' member with a card and all. You are an atheist because you have no belief in a supernatural being. That's good enough.


  • #8
    AndywK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭AndywK


    Great answer, thank you.

    I am aware there is no Athiest club nor I am looking for acceptance into any Atheist communitites.

    It was something I personally wanted to do(being removed from the register as a whole)

    Is there a reason why you can no longer formally remove yourself asides for the reason of record keeping?
    Yes I am an RC, should of stated that.

    Very informative, thank you.


  • #9
    Treora
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭Treora


    There was once a formal exit contract, but a year ago the catholic church stopped accepting the formal declaration of exit. Basically, like FF, once you are on their books they wanted to keep you there so they can lobby the government and say they have huge numbers (of people that ignore them).

    atheistireland.org is a place to start, in the USA it is so severe that people use exit groups so their families don't turn on them or so they can re-settle in another non-bible belt city.

    Any hoo, Labour and Shatter will squish the CC in a PC manner. So nostrodamus's prediction that this is the last bishop of Rome may come to pass for Ireland. Image, we could live in a country that observes religion as much as Japan or Norway or Sweden or Finland or Denmark. Crazy countries..


  • #10
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    AndywK wrote: »
    I just want to be fully recognized as an atheist
    an atheist isnt a thing you are, its a term for the things you arent


  • #11
    Orion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,807 ✭✭✭✭Orion


    AndywK wrote: »
    Is there a reason why you can no longer formally remove yourself asides for the reason of record keeping?

    Because they decided you couldn't anymore.
    http://www.countmeout.ie/suspension/

    It's a club you can't get out of once you're enrolled in it (without your permission).

    I'm planning on going apostate and getting excommunicated if they refuse to allow my defection. The only problem with that is that apostasy is a rejection of a former belief whereas I never considered myself to be a believer in the first place. Same applies to defection tbh - I was enlisted in the ranks of the RCC without my knowledge or consent yet I am denied to opportunity to reject this.


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  • #12
    AndywK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭AndywK


    Helix wrote: »
    an atheist isnt a thing you are, its a term for the things you arent

    I am aware of that, I am just phrasing my words wrong. My apologies


  • #13
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭alex73


    If you don't believe in Christ or Christianity then you have pretty much left it already..

    Your thread is going nowhere.


  • #14
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,240 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    With the mods permission, I'm going to move this over to the A&A forum.


  • #15
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Orion wrote: »
    I was enlisted in the ranks of the RCC without my knowledge or consent yet I am denied to opportunity to reject this.
    You are free to reject the basis -- referred to as an "ontological bond" by the Vatican -- upon which they refuse to release you.

    For a laugh, you could set up your own competing religion with its own similar ontological process which turns all catholics into non-catholics and see whether they still support the idea of an unbreakable, er, ontological bond.

    This approach is not guaranteed to work.


  • #16
    Cool Mo D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭Cool Mo D


    You leave the church simply by not believing. The church will always consider you a member (albeit a lapsed member), but seeing as you've already rejected their fundamental beliefs, it hardly matters what they think.


  • #17
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    The second you don't believe is when you leave the universal Christian church as far as I see it.


  • #18
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Orion wrote: »
    I'm planning on going apostate and getting excommunicated if they refuse to allow my defection. The only problem with that is that apostasy is a rejection of a former belief whereas I never considered myself to be a believer in the first place. Same applies to defection tbh - I was enlisted in the ranks of the RCC without my knowledge or consent yet I am denied to opportunity to reject this.
    Let me know how you get on with this. I put off defecting until it was too late, so I've been kind of thinking of finding a friendly bishop who'll let me shove him so I can get excommunicated.


  • #19
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,315 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Just to counter those saying that there's no way to leave the Catholic Church, a mate of mine got onto the diocese and got some forms printed to renounce membership.


  • #20
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    amacachi wrote: »
    Just to counter those saying that there's no way to leave the Catholic Church, a mate of mine got onto the diocese and got some forms printed to renounce membership.

    The Catholic Church aren't doing that any more.


  • #21
    AndywK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭AndywK


    Very informative indeed.

    For those saying not believeing in the faith is enough...well for me it is not.


    Just more so a personal closure thing to get my name removed from the records, seeing as it can't be done it's a tad bit dissapointing.

    Apologies to mods for intially posting this in the wrong form.

    Out of curiosity, is this not illegal in any way shape or form.
    Surely if I joined a subscription service(and for arguements sake it was free) and I asked to unsubscribe they couldn't turn around to me and say "No,you will be a subscriber forever" etc...

    There could be better examples but I just had myself a spiked cigarette ;)


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  • #22
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    AndywK wrote: »
    Very informative indeed.

    For those saying not believeing in the faith is enough...well for me it is not.


    Just more so a personal closure thing to get my name removed from the records, seeing as it can't be done it's a tad bit dissapointing.

    Apologies to mods for intially posting this in the wrong form.

    Out of curiosity, is this not illegal in any way shape or form.
    Surely if I joined a subscription service(and for arguements sake it was free) and I asked to unsubscribe they couldn't turn around to me and say "No,you will be a subscriber forever" etc...

    There could be better examples but I just had myself a spiked cigarette ;)
    It is a tricky one. The Main problem is that the baptismal record is a record of an event that happened. Whether or not you agreed to it, the baptism happened. The church argues, I believe, that as it is a record of an event that happened it cannot be changed.

    There is some speculation that there might be something one could do around how this stored information is used. That seems reasonable, but I am not sure anyone outside the church really understands how they use information they hold about people.

    I think the information commissioner might offer the best option for someone trying to extricate themselves from the church, but whilst I think it might offer the best option, it still might not work. It would be interesting to see how a text case Played out.

    MrP


  • #23
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    amacachi wrote: »
    Just to counter those saying that there's no way to leave the Catholic Church, a mate of mine got onto the diocese and got some forms printed to renounce membership.

    they've changed it so you cant do this now, dirty scumbags that they are


  • #24
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    AndywK wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, is this not illegal in any way shape or form.
    Surely if I joined a subscription service(and for arguements sake it was free) and I asked to unsubscribe they couldn't turn around to me and say "No,you will be a subscriber forever" etc...

    Look at it this way, for it to be illegal we would have to be acknowledging that they are holding your soul against it's will... and thereby admitting taht sous are real :pac:


  • #25
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    I find it interesting why so many people care about what a church which they claim to have nothing to do with thinks about them. The Census is the most important record of religious belief in state policy. If church figures happen to grossly disagree with the census figures then it is obvious to any observer that the church figures are wrong.


  • #26
    krudler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    philologos wrote: »
    I find it interesting why so many people care about what a church which they claim to have nothing to do with thinks about them. The Census is the most important record of religious belief in state policy. If church figures happen to grossly disagree with the census figures then it is obvious to any observer that the church figures are wrong.

    if you left a club but they still counted you as a member in the AGM would you be happy?


  • #27
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    krudler wrote: »
    if you left a club but they still counted you as a member in the AGM would you be happy?

    Honestly, I wouldn't care.

    In the scenario of the RCC the defection didn't even guarantee non-membership of the RCC, nor did it mean that your baptism was invalid. One could ask what was the point of it other than to register as a discontented member rather than just a regular member. Perhaps I'm wrong but that was my understanding of it.


  • #28
    Dont be at yourself
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭Dont be at yourself


    philologos wrote: »
    I find it interesting why so many people care about what a church which they claim to have nothing to do with thinks about them. The Census is the most important record of religious belief in state policy. If church figures happen to grossly disagree with the census figures then it is obvious to any observer that the church figures are wrong.

    Cool. Hope it's alright that I count you as a member of a club I've just started. We'll be staging rallies against homosexuality and women's rights. Don't worry if you can't make it, you're still in the club!


  • #29
    goose2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Treora wrote: »
    There was once a formal exit contract, but a year ago the catholic church stopped accepting the formal declaration of exit. Basically, like FF, once you are on their books they wanted to keep you there so they can lobby the government and say they have huge numbers (of people that ignore them).

    I noted a Catholic report on their numbers - it said things like "only 40% of Catholics attend Mass" and even "95% of Catholics believe in God" - um, guys, it doesn't sound like all of these people are Catholics. However, it would chime with the RCC's habit of placing adherence to the institution (even only paper membership) above actual actions or beliefs. Probably only about a tenth of "Catholics" actually do the basics (avoid major sins, weekly Mass, regular confession, raise children in "the faith")


  • #30
    loconnor1001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 323 ✭✭loconnor1001


    AndywK wrote: »
    Well as the title says.

    I was baptized into the religion but never had any interest in it. Infact I still can't comprehend how people can believe it(yes you guessed it,I'm an Atheist). I have no problems with people having faith but this is not for me.

    I am against the aspect of religion personally, so I do not want to have a Catholic Funeral etc...... Who does one contact to be removed from the religion. The local priest or is there some sort of board or something?

    Thanks in advance.


    Are you serious?


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  • #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If the RCC don't allow you to leave, does this mean you can't convert to another religion either? Or is this just a way of making atheism difficult?


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