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Catholic Church claims it is above the law

13567…48

Comments

  • #62
    MitchKoobski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭MitchKoobski


    SirenX wrote: »
    are u serious???
    we are talking about hild molesters and rapists, not theives. that was the most ridiculous comment made so far in this thread
    Where did you even get that from!? G'way outta that.

    If you would have actually read what I said:
    I'm all for catching the bastards and locking them away, but making one of the core practices of the religion illegal will just turn many irish people against how theyre handling it.


  • #63
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Can probably add judges to that list or Gards from Donegal.


  • #64
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    MitchKoobski wrote: »
    Your own comment was feckin ridiculous, either add to the thread or feck off.

    But we're not making confessions illegal.

    The point of a confession is to ask God for forgiveness, nobody is questioning anyone's right to do that. We're questioning the right of priests to hide heinous crimes which may result in more lives destroyed.

    God's forgiveness doesn't require confidentiality.


  • #65
    MitchKoobski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭MitchKoobski


    Just imagine some poor aul biddy going in for weekly confession.

    ".....and I hereby absolve you of all your sins, in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Go in peace. And I'll have to report you to the guards for at least three of those."


  • #66
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    Yes, and journalists often withhold information too. Except for lawyers these groups should go to jail if it is proven they withheld information, and priests. They can believe in the seal of the confessional all they want though. It has to remain private, for obvious reasons.


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  • #67
    Aldebaran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Aldebaran


    Yahew wrote: »
    Do any of the modern anti-Catholic atheists get a bit queasy when agreeing with an utter bigot like KeithAFC? You should: his attitudes pretty much exterminated your ancestors.

    I've heard about 'looks that can kill', but never 'attitudes that can exterminate ancestors', should we be frightened?


  • #68
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    MitchKoobski wrote: »
    Just imagine some poor aul biddy going in for weekly confession.

    ".....and I hereby absolve you of all your sins, in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Go in peace. And I'll have to report you to the guards for at least three of those."

    She should be held as accountable as any other criminal. Walking into a church may absolve you of your sins in the next life but it doesn't in this one.


  • #69
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Isn't this a pointless argument seeing as how confession is supposed to be anonymous anyway.


  • #70
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    Aldebaran wrote: »
    I've heard about 'looks that can kill', but never 'attitudes that can exterminate ancestors', should we be frightened?

    No, but your ancestors would have been. And - to be even more remedial than my last post on the subject - the claim that attitudes caused extermination implies they were accompanied by exterminatory actions.


  • #71
    MitchKoobski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭MitchKoobski


    Seachmall wrote: »
    But we're not making confessions illegal.

    The point of a confession is to ask God for forgiveness, nobody is questioning anyone's right to do that. We're questioning the right of priests to hide heinous crimes which may result in more lives destroyed.

    God's forgiveness doesn't require confidentiality.
    Good point, tbh the whole idea of "confession is between you and god" is probably still rooted into me somwhere from when I was younger!

    They need a better line set out on it rather than Enda going "WE'LL PROSECUTE THEM ALL!!"


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  • #72
    MitchKoobski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭MitchKoobski


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Isn't this a pointless argument seeing as how confession is supposed to be anonymous anyway.
    Forgot about that! How is a priest going to report it on unless he recognises the voice and knows the person by name?


  • #73
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Yahew wrote: »
    No, but your ancestors would have been. And - to be even more remedial than my last post on the subject - the claim that attitudes caused extermination implies they were accompanied by exterminatory actions.

    I think the point is that your Ad-Hominem attack was so idiotic it was not worthy of a genuine response.

    I like dogs, so did Hitler, I am not responsible for the Holocaust.

    [That's an example, I'm not comparing Keith to Hitler :pac:]
    MitchKoobski wrote:
    Forgot about that! How is a priest going to report it on unless he recognises the voice and knows the person by name?
    Not all confessions are anonymous, often the priest will know his Parishioners.


  • #74
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    Seanbeag1 wrote: »
    Isn't this a pointless argument seeing as how confession is supposed to be anonymous anyway.

    Yes, it's dark. However in small towns they would know the confessor. I think they should be arrested, but they have the right to believe confessional privacy. Just take the consequence.


  • #75
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,395 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    wild_cat wrote: »
    The Catholic church will take years upon years to die out here. Especially when you have stupid people getting children christened for the sake of a piss up. Which I see a lot back home.... How can you be catholic if you go against so many teachings of the church? They don't have a clue.

    Co - Habitian.
    Pre - marital sex.
    Child born out of wedlock.
    etc etc


    Enda better stick to his words. First off get the papal nuncio the feck out of here. Show them we mean business. Those priests claim Irish nationality and live in the Irish Republic so they best start living by the laws of the land.


    Rurari Quinn isn't blinded by faith so he will have no problem in taking assets from the ones that don't pay up. I'd like to ask all Catholics.. How can you justify your faith when the men your god put on this earth to represent him do this kind of thing.

    Don't forget that religious discrimination is legally allowed by schools. They're allowed to refuse non catholic kids. So if your nearest school is catholic you have little choice. Ironicly that you have to convert your kids to the religion of the biggest paedo ring in history for them to have an education


  • #76
    Aldebaran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭Aldebaran


    Yahew wrote: »
    No, but your ancestors would have been. And - to be even more remedial than my last post on the subject - the claim that attitudes caused extermination implies they were accompanied by exterminatory actions.

    Riiight, but if KeithAFC's attitudes exterminated my ancestors then how am I still here?


  • #77
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    I think its time the government take a hard line with the Vatican and expel the papal nuncio is a good way to start.

    The pope should have come straight to ireland years ago to grovel for forgiveness from the irish people for the abuses that happened. Yet all we got was a half arsed letter saying that he felt bad for what happened.

    the Irish examiner did a series of articles last week about the millions the church has made in ireland selling land and buildings and yet they've only paid a fraction of money they are supposed to contribute to the compensation fund for victims.

    The government really needs to start showing some backbone when dealing with the church.


  • #78
    Penn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,038 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    MitchKoobski wrote: »
    Just imagine some poor aul biddy going in for weekly confession.

    ".....and I hereby absolve you of all your sins, in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Go in peace. And I'll have to report you to the guards for at least three of those."

    This law isn't for every crime. It is specifically for abuse towards children, and the reason it is being brought in is because of how the Church has failed in this regard. It is a far more symbolic law than practical one. It is essentially to say to priests that if they don't report child abuse in any shape or form, whether it be a priest confessing their act to a Bishop, or the victim coming forward to the Bishop or another priest, they will be held accountable for not reporting it to the authorities. It is to show that they are not above Irish Law while they are in this country, and regardless of what orders the Vatican sends down, they will be prosecuted in accordance with Irish Law.


  • #79
    mackg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    How about a button on the priests side of the confessional that puts the other side into a panic room style lockdown and sounds an alarm in the garda station.

    On a serious note even if all this law meant was people stopped confessing crimes at least we could be sure that the perpetrator was going to hell.


  • #80
    anawfulbogey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43 ✭anawfulbogey


    Oh how happy I would be if the state seized all church property in Ireland and booted them to **** out. Now THAT would be maturing as a nation.


  • #81
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    Seachmall wrote: »
    I think the point is that your Ad-Hominem attack was so idiotic it was not worthy of a genuine response.

    I like dogs, so did Hitler, I am not responsible for the Holocaust.

    [That's an example, I'm not comparing Keith to Hitler :pac:]

    Not all confessions are anonymous, often the priest will know his Parishioners.

    Keith is from an Ulster Unionist background. His attacks on the Catholic Church "controlling the West" are not in-group attacks, and are of the form of bigotry and papist bashing which Paisley and the DUP used to engage in publicly, and probably now engage in privately. The kind of bigotry which led to a bigoted Northern State. So I merely pointed out that for people of Irish Catholic descent to agree with him should make you quesy. If it doesn't there are book stores and history books can be found therein.

    Last post on this topic.


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  • #82
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,623 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Child abusers should be hunted down in the same way that war criminals are, and made to feel the full force of the law.


  • #83
    MitchKoobski
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭MitchKoobski


    anawfulbogey wrote: »
    Oh how happy I would be if the state seized all church property in Ireland and booted them to **** out. Now THAT would be maturing as a nation.

    "You believe in God? **** THAT SHÍT!! Get out of my country! Yeah I'm so mature."


  • #84
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    Aldebaran wrote: »
    Riiight, but if KeithAFC's attitudes exterminated my ancestors then how am I still here?

    I said

    You should: his attitudes pretty much exterminated your ancestors.

    so you need

    1) A remedial history book.
    2) A remedial book on the English language.


  • #85
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    For sell, pitchforks and torches: ideal for mob crowds.


  • #86
    saa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    Sickens me.

    Although people would want to open their eyes and realise its happening in every community in the home so either way even cases concerning the church it makes me think there are/were so many cases where teachers could have picked up on strange behaviour, could have talked to children but no


  • #87
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Yahew wrote: »
    Keith is from an Ulster Unionist background. His attacks on the Catholic Church "controlling the West" are not in-group attacks, and are of the form of bigotry and papist bashing which Paisley and the DUP used to engage in publicly, and probably now engage in privately. The kind of bigotry which led to a bigoted Northern State. So I merely pointed out that for people of Irish Catholic descent to agree with him should make you quesy. If it doesn't there are book stores and history books.

    Last post on this topic.

    Why should it make us sick? Regardless of his background his opinion on this matter is the opinion of many people in this country and for good reason.

    Stop addressing the man's background and address his points if you're so offended by them.


  • #88
    Yahew
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭Yahew


    MitchKoobski wrote: »
    "You believe in God? **** THAT SHÍT!! Get out of my country! Yeah I'm so mature."

    I think the Irish State is owed lots of money by the Catholic Church, for the under-payment on the child abuse scandals. However that should be schools and other prime land, not Churches. If you want a Catholic revival, ban it. Or seize Churches.


  • #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    anawfulbogey wrote: »
    Oh how happy I would be if the state seized all church property in Ireland and booted them to **** out. Now THAT would be maturing as a nation.

    Pity they wouldn't boot out the Catholic church bashers who frequent AH tbh. Sick to the teeth reading posts like this and bashing threads in general.


  • #90
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    MitchKoobski wrote: »
    Just imagine some poor aul biddy going in for weekly confession.

    ".....and I hereby absolve you of all your sins, in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Go in peace. And I'll have to report you to the guards for at least three of those."

    Why would a priest absolve someone of their sins if the penitent wasn't willing to turn themselves in to the civil authorities?


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  • #91
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I'd like to ask all Catholics.. How can you justify your faith when the men your god put on this earth to represent him do this kind of thing.

    Ah come on, they said that they were sorry the last time, they're sorry this time and they'll be just as sorry the next time. Surely that's good enough, what do you expect them to do, put the well being of children before that of the paedo's that they're protecting? Obey the law of the land? You must be some kind of heathen communist :confused:


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