Read this without tearing up

Dudess · 15-07-2011 12:43AM

greenybaby wrote: »

This world is becoming a terrible place there is something new (to do with kids) nearly everyday

You think awful sh1t wasn't happening to kids in times past? Despite unusual horrors like this, things overall are better than they've ever been for children in the western world.

bring back capital punishment and have it in EVERY country

Lol.

Guy:Incognito · 15-07-2011 12:51AM

Boxoffrogs wrote: »

What kind of idiots don't let children be children any more???.

Children being children is playing, not walking alone around places like Brooklyn.

keane2097 wrote: »

, the walk was like 400 yards.

Why did he have to ask directions so?

greenybaby · 15-07-2011 12:52AM

yeah sh!t happened in the past but it is growing too common these days, things are better these days for kids you say, i lol at that statement

you say lol to my capital punishment statement, care to elaborate

seeing as there are countries who do not preform it/have got rid of it, i think it is a valid statement

Dudess · 15-07-2011 12:59AM

greenybaby wrote: »

yeah sh!t happened in the past but it is growing too common these days

No, it's likely rarer. How could it be more common?

things are better these days for kids you say, i lol at that statement

Tiny kids aren't being forced to work jobs like chimney-sweeping, it's not acceptable to batter the bejaysus out of children anymore. One-off depravities like this are exactly that - one-offs. Unfortunately there have always been sickos in small numbers and there always will be.

you say lol to my capital punishment statement, care to elaborate

It was just very kneejerk - and the death penalty won't rid the world of this kinda stuff.

df1985 · 15-07-2011 01:05AM

7 blocks is nothing and parts of brooklyn are very nice these days (gentrification), house prices are ridiculous. i was certain when going to read it, it was gonna be some small backward town in Iowa in the middle of nowhere and he was picked up.

Pompey Magnus · 15-07-2011 01:15AM

greenybaby wrote: »

things are better these days for kids you say, i lol at that statement

Things are immeasurably better today for children today than even just 100/200 years ago. The chances of a child dying before reaching maturity were far, FAR higher in the past and for those children who did make it to aduthood the vast majority would have suffered numerous, frequent beatings from their parents and teachers making their childhood a far from happy time.

Yes child abuse still happens and children do get killed today, but just because we haven't achieved a perfectly working society doesn't mean we should condemn ourselves for our rare failings, we are doing pretty well compared to the record set by our ancestors.

Boxoffrogs · 15-07-2011 01:42AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Children being children is playing, not walking alone around places like Brooklyn.

Why? Is Brooklyn known to be thriving with child murderers?

I grew up in what some people would call a 'dog rough' part of Tallaght and I had much more freedom when I was a child than kids do in the nicest parts of South County Dublin these days. Has there been an upsurge in Child murders/abductions in the intervening period? No! I can't quite figure it out.

I'm thankful for my childhood and the independence I was allowed. I feel very sad for children today.

robbie_998 · 15-07-2011 01:51AM

phasers wrote: »

What kind of idiots let an 8 year old walk around alone?

I wasn't allowed outside my front garden alone until I was 12.

thats cos neilstown is a hole :pac:

mackg · 15-07-2011 02:04AM

Dudess wrote: »

No, it's likely rarer. How could it be more common?

Tiny kids aren't being forced to work jobs like chimney-sweeping, it's not acceptable to batter the bejaysus out of children anymore. One-off depravities like this are exactly that - one-offs. Unfortunately there have always been sickos in small numbers and there always will be.

It was just very kneejerk - and the death penalty won't rid the world of this kinda stuff.

Bingo! This guy is clearly far beyond f*cked up, you could think of the worst kind of torture possible and make it mandatory for this crime and the lunatic would still have done it. More then likely if that child's parents hadn't let him walk home alone we would be reading about a different chopped up 8 year old. That guy is pure evil and sooner or later he was going to show the world. I really feel for any parent who loses a kid like this and hope they are not subjected to anyone's opinion who thinks it was their fault.

Guy:Incognito · 15-07-2011 02:05AM

Boxoffrogs wrote: »

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Children being children is playing, not walking alone around places like Brooklyn..

Why? Is Brooklyn known to be thriving with child murderers?
.

Plenty of things can happen to an eight year old alone. Even simple things like crossing a road. Kids have a tendancy to not concentrate and run out.

They also wander off and get lost. They do silly things like go with strangers.

There only needs to be the one child murderer, as has been shown in the story. I doubt if someone has tendancies towards murdering children they dont react to a child walking alone in a city. The guy probably walked by hundreds of other kids that day who are at home right now because they were with their parents.

If it was a simple walk down a road why did the child have to stop someone and ask directions.

Guy:Incognito · 15-07-2011 02:09AM

mackg wrote: »

More then likely if that child's parents hadn't let him walk home alone we would be reading about a different chopped up 8 year old..

Thats the point. Dont let you child walk alone in a cuty at 8 and at least it wont be YOUR child in the story.

I have a 7 year old and I tell him to make sure he's not the one that gets in trouble in school and the like, let it be someone else. Some child will be getting in trouble, bu it wont be him. He doesnt have any less fun a life than the next child, but he also wont end up chopped up in a freezer because I keep an eye on him.

mackg · 15-07-2011 02:18AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Thats the point. Dont let you child walk alone in a cuty at 8 and at least it wont be YOUR child in the story.

I have a 7 year old and I tell him to make sure he's not the one that gets in trouble in school and the like, let it be someone else. Some child will be getting in trouble, bu it wont be him. He doesnt have any less fun a life than the next child, but he also wont end up chopped up in a freezer because I keep an eye on him.

I completely see your point but my post was more to do with the bold text in what I quoted, that even if capital punishment was reintroduced it would not stop crimes like this.

Boxoffrogs · 15-07-2011 02:23AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Plenty of things can happen to an eight year old alone. Even simple things like crossing a road. Kids have a tendancy to not concentrate and run out.

They also wander off and get lost. They do silly things like go with strangers.

There only needs to be the one child murderer, as has been shown in the story. I doubt if someone has tendancies towards murdering children they dont react to a child walking alone in a city. The guy probably walked by hundreds of other kids that day who are at home right now because they were with their parents.

If it was a simple walk down a road why did the child have to stop someone and ask directions.

Plenty of things can happen to anyone walking alone, be they child or adult. Everything anyone does has an element of risk attached. From reading the story, it sounds like this little guy was getting his first taste of freedom, his parents having shown him the way previously. They made a decision which I'm sure will haunt them for a long time but I still think it was their decision to make and 99.99% of the time such a decision would have had no such tragic consequences.

Most parents don't just decide to throw their children out the door without a thought for their safety. Each step a child makes is usually agonised over and parents will always worry but (only my opinion) it's unhealthy to let that worry stunt your child's development and hamper their freedom.

Guy:Incognito · 15-07-2011 02:24AM

mackg wrote: »

that even if capital punishment was reintroduced it would not stop crimes like this.

It cuts reoffending rates by 100% though.:)

Twee. · 15-07-2011 02:51AM

It's approx. one block a minute, so seven minutes in this case. Such a sad story, he must have been so close to home.

Brooklyn is not so bad, obviously some neighbourhoods, like anywhere, are bad. His parents obviously thought the area safe enough for him to take the seven minute walk.

EDIT: Did some further looking, it apparently took place in the Borough Park area of Brooklyn. Nearly a purely Orthodox Jewish community, and considered a safe area to live in. I think people are judging Brooklyn on television and movies - it's not all the "ghetto"!

Riddle101 · 15-07-2011 03:38AM

Terrible stuff, truly terrible. I just hope the boy didn't suffer a painful death.

My heart goes out to him

Azureus · 15-07-2011 09:08AM

He was 8 and he was allowed walk a seven minute wlak and meeting his parents halfway, and people are critcising the parents ? Some people were obviusly never kids themselves!

stovelid · 15-07-2011 09:10AM

Azureus wrote: »

He was 8 and he was allowed walk a seven minute wlak and meeting his parents halfway, and people are critcising the parents ? Some people were obviusly never kids themselves!

On boards, everybody is an expert.

sunflower27 · 15-07-2011 09:21AM

Few more details here.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/14/nyc-boy-possibly-tied-up-before-being-killed-police-say/?test=latestnews

Seachmall · 15-07-2011 09:22AM

The kid, at 8 years old, was left to walk through a part of the city he didn't know. He got lost. It's a 15 minute walk and if it was one he did regularly it would've been fine but it was only his second time. It took me a couple of days to figure out UL campus, how's an 8 year old supposed to remember 7 identical blocks of a major city?

Also,

Levi Aron wrote:

]My name is Levi Aron... On Monday evening around 5:30 I went to my dentist, Dr. Sorcher, to make a payment for visit for exam routine.

A boy approached me on where the Judaica book store was. He was still there when went out from the dentist's office. He asked me for a ride to the Judaica book store. While on the way he changed his mind and wasn't sure where he wanted to go.

So I asked if he wanted to go for the ride - wedding in Monsey - since I didn't think I was going to stay for the whole thing since my back was hurting. He said ok.

Due to traffic, I got back around 11:30 p.m. ... so I brought him to my house thinking I'd bring him to his house the next day. He watched TV then fell asleep in the front room. I went to the middle room to sleep. That next morning, he was still sleeping when I was ready to leave.

So I woke him and told him I'll bring him to his house... when I saw the flyers I panicked and was afraid. When I got home he was still there so I made him a tuna sandwich....

I was still in a panic ... and afraid to bring him home. That is when approximately I went for a towel to smother him in the side room. He fought back a little bit until eventually he stopped breathing.

Afterwards I panicked because I didn't know what to do with the body.... carried parts to the back room placing parts between the freezer and the refrigerator ...

... went to clean up a little then took a second shower. I panicked and .. Then putting the parts in a suitcase. Then carrying suitcase to the car ...placing in backseat on floor behind passenger side.

... drove around approximately around 20 minutes before placing it in the dumpster on 20th street just before 4th Avenue. Then went home to clean and organize.

I understand this may be wrong and I'm sorry for the hurt that I have caused.

- http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/180541/20110714/brooklyn-boy-leiby-kletzky.htm

Paparazzo · 15-07-2011 09:24AM

phasers wrote: »

What kind of idiots let an 8 year old walk around alone?

I wasn't allowed outside my front garden alone until I was 12.

Either that's a massive exaggeration or your parents were weird!

Siuin · 15-07-2011 10:01AM

Twee. wrote: »

It's approx. one block a minute, so seven minutes in this case. Such a sad story, he must have been so close to home.

Brooklyn is not so bad, obviously some neighbourhoods, like anywhere, are bad. His parents obviously thought the area safe enough for him to take the seven minute walk.

EDIT: Did some further looking, it apparently took place in the Borough Park area of Brooklyn. Nearly a purely Orthodox Jewish community, and considered a safe area to live in. I think people are judging Brooklyn on television and movies - it's not all the "ghetto"!

Exactly- I don't think people fully appreciate how close-knit and trusting these kinds of religious communities are. I'm living very close to such an area myself, and it's literally the kind of place where there's an 8 year old kid walking even younger siblings home from school on a daily basis. Just the other day I saw two Orthodox boys about 4 and 9 strolling down the street with their little dog and a bag of shopping at about 8.30am. Everyone is familiar with everyone else because they go to the same synagogues and whatnot, so it's not like they're meeting strangers, as such communities tend to be quite closed off from the secular population.

A really sad story

15-07-2011 10:16AM

You never stop worrying about you children but you have to realistic they have to become independent sometime.

Even when they are grown up you are worried about them, for example I use to be very worried about my 18 year old daughter walking home at night ( in a well lit urban area ) I could not sleep properly until I head her key in the door. I know this is a bit sad but one of the reasons I am delighted that she has a bf is because she wouldn't be coming home by herself when it is late

sbsquarepants · 15-07-2011 10:19AM

squod wrote: »

Very common. Woula cost his parents $100-200 dollars a year or so to have him tracked via mobile phone by the likes of Top security. No way my kids go beyond camera range if I'm not with them.

Over react much!
Mobile tracking, constant video surveillance - sounds like your kids will have a marvelous childhood!

It wasn't me! · 15-07-2011 10:29AM

Kids are going to be kids. Bad things are going to happen. This is a tragedy, but if society's response is RFID tracking, video surveillance of kids and not letting them out of your sight, we're going to have buckets of weird bastards growing up who haven't had the twenty million scares and falls and fcuk-ups I had wandering around the countryside as a kid, because that's the stuff that enables you to evaluate risk properly and to make responsible decisions. If you've not been doing it for as long as you remember, you aren't going to be able to do it based on a theoretical set of principles. All it's going to do is make your life more dangerous and you less competent to deal with it.

GerM · 15-07-2011 11:37AM

Some people need to take a breath. Saying the parents were foolish for allowing the child to walk around Brooklyn is like saying the same for allowing a child to walk 3 minutes home from a random spot in Dublin. We're not talking about the projects in Coney Island or Flatbush. Brooklyn is part of NYC the same way Baldoyle or Foxrock is part of Dublin city. It's an urban area and a lot of it is quite nice along with some not so nice areas (the incident was in one of the nice areas). The area where the kid was walking was fine and the ground he was covering on his own was literally no more than a few hundred metres.

The fact is that the perpetrator isn't exactly your standard scumbag thug that you might encounter in a dog rough area. He was a normal bloke and a fellow member of the Jewish community in the area. These incidents happen unfortunately and they're as likely to occur due to the perpetrator being a normal, safe in appearance individual that the child would be comfortable approaching as opposed to a stereotypical gang banger.

It's a tragedy, nothing else. The only person to blame is the guy who did it. Those who are saying the parents should shoulder responsibility either don't have children or have children that must have very restricted childhoods.

Magic Beans · 15-07-2011 11:49AM

phasers wrote: »

I wasn't allowed outside my front garden alone until I was 12.

FFS, I wasn't let out of the cellar until I was 22 and even then it was by accident.

Gilda Fortune · 15-07-2011 11:53AM

Thank god USA still has the death sentence.

sunflower27 · 15-07-2011 11:55AM

The bastard that did it was wearing one of those Jewish caps when he was arrested so possibly that is why the child asked him for directions as he was also Jewish.

It really is a case of wrong place, wrong time, like Michaela Harte. Something so simple can simply snuff out a life.

thebigleap · 15-07-2011 02:52PM

Thank god USA still has the death sentence.

New York doesn't have the death penalty...

Read this without tearing up

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