Holland set to boot out Polish immigrants who can't find work after 3 months.

Nodin · 06-07-2011 07:14AM

gigino wrote: »

+1. Lets not forget part of what caused the tiger property bubble was the sudden influx of a few hundred thousand people in to this country from Poland etc during the boom ....property developers , landlords etc could'nt build enough property ...prices went mad ...attracted more polish to build the apartments.....and the rent from the apartments they occupied while building the new ones helped fuel the fire. We were one of the few european countries to let unrestricted amounts in + it backfired. Now our Irish people are emigrating.

......crapola.

mattjack · 06-07-2011 09:51AM

gigino wrote: »

+1. Lets not forget part of what caused the tiger property bubble was the sudden influx of a few hundred thousand people in to this country from Poland etc during the boom ....property developers , landlords etc could'nt build enough property ...prices went mad ...attracted more polish to build the apartments.....and the rent from the apartments they occupied while building the new ones helped fuel the fire. We were one of the few european countries to let unrestricted amounts in + it backfired. Now our Irish people are emigrating.

deep crapola.........................

Amhran Nua · 06-07-2011 10:16AM

DWCommuter wrote: »

Our social welfare bill is huge because successive Governments ramped it up to a level that a recession hit country simply cannot afford.

Our everything bill is huge because successive Governments ramped it up to a level that a recession hit country simply cannot afford.

I'd like to point out that increases in spending on all welfare schemes since 2007, when unemployment was far lower, only accounts for a third of the deficit. That's spending increases since that time.

gigino wrote: »

+1. Lets not forget part of what caused the tiger property bubble was the sudden influx of a few hundred thousand people in to this country from Poland etc during the boom

How do you figure the Polish are responsible for a bubble that started in the late 90s, since they were only let into the country in 2004, and it collapsed in 2006? You are aware that foreign purchases of properties whether investment or PPR throughout the bubble were basically nothing, almost all of it was bought domestically? So what, did poor Polish immigrants land off the boat and immediately take out a half-million mortgage on a two bed in Dublin's commuter belt?

_feedback_ · 06-07-2011 10:28AM

katiebelle wrote: »

I dont want to argue here but my niece lived in Poland for a while with her polish boyfriend. She never stopped talking about how much lower the cost of living was over there. She went with all her savings as she was viewing this as an extended holiday and took leave from work for that. She was amazed at how far her money went. What happens to your country if all the educated young people leave for greener pastures ??? This is what we in Ireland are trying to prevent our young educated people from doing. We desperately want them to have a future here.
We all have to listen to bosses educated or not. An education does not mean you are better than your boss I'm afraid and guess what ?? Irish educated people have to listen to bosses too and many are more educated than their bosses.
I dont like your comment about maybe us having to leave to find a better life elsewhere at all. I could answer it but doubt it would be useful. No one is actually complaining about people who work and put something back into the country.

Just to point out something on this. You have completely misread the situation over there as you are seeing it through the eyes of a visitor.

If your niece took her savings of say €5000, for an extended stay of lets say two months (you don't specify any of that). That 5000 translates in to about 20,000 polish money, depending on the exchange, but it's usually around that.

So ching ching, she's in the money money money. If I had 20,000 here to spend over two months, I'd be happy as Larry too.

Comparing that to somebody who is trying to earn a living there. Most middle of the road earners would be getting something like 1400-1500 polish money a month. So, about 3000 for the time that your niece was there (by my guess).

A pint of beer costs about 10 polish money (less than 3 euro). Fine when your pockets are bulging with euros, but not when you are getting by on the local rate.

ArmaniJeanss · 06-07-2011 10:35AM

Dutch are absolute masters at proposing such laws, bringing them through various stages of their parliament, then abandoning them or completely diluting them before the key vote.

It just won't happen.

katiebelle · 06-07-2011 11:05AM

elviscostello wrote: »

Just to point out something on this. You have completely misread the situation over there as you are seeing it through the eyes of a visitor.

If your niece took her savings of say €5000, for an extended stay of lets say two months (you don't specify any of that). That 5000 translates in to about 20,000 polish money, depending on the exchange, but it's usually around that.

So ching ching, she's in the money money money. If I had 20,000 here to spend over two months, I'd be happy as Larry too.

Comparing that to somebody who is trying to earn a living there. Most middle of the road earners would be getting something like 1400-1500 polish money a month. So, about 3000 for the time that your niece was there (by my guess).

A pint of beer costs about 10 polish money (less than 3 euro). Fine when your pockets are bulging with euros, but not when you are getting by on the local rate.

Her boyfriend worked there and managed just find. A lot of friends went back to Poland and are working and living just fine. As I say they openly admitted they came here for the freedom. Poland was too conservative for them.
I actually rang a few of my polish friends and read softmee post about Poland and they were pretty livid Poland was being portrayed that way. They say one persons subjective opinion of their bad experience in Poland should not be put forward as how Poland is for everyone . Anyway I am bored with this now so back to work with me.

_feedback_ · 06-07-2011 11:14AM

katiebelle wrote: »

Her boyfriend worked there and managed just find. A lot of friends went back to Poland and are working and living just fine. As I say they openly admitted they came here for the freedom. Poland was too conservative for them.
I actually rang a few of my polish friends and read softmee post about Poland and they were pretty livid Poland was being portrayed that way. They say one persons subjective opinion of their bad experience in Poland should not be put forward as how Poland is for everyone . Anyway I am bored with this now so back to work with me.

It's a fairly massive country. There are surely very much differing situations for people over there. I have travelled quite a bit of Poland and it's the same everywhere I went. Very expensive for locals, very cheap for euro tourists.

katiebelle · 06-07-2011 11:27AM

elviscostello wrote: »

It's a fairly massive country. There are surely very much differing situations for people over there. I have travelled quite a bit of Poland and it's the same everywhere I went. Very expensive for locals, very cheap for euro tourists.

But again thats the tourist view you have and according to yourself as my niece only had basically a tourist view she would not possibly have known what the real Poland was like. So by your own argument you could not really have had a true notion of what Poland was really like now can you ???

_feedback_ · 06-07-2011 11:48AM

katiebelle wrote: »

But again thats the tourist view you have and according to yourself as my niece only had basically a tourist view she would not possibly have known what the real Poland was like. So by your own argument you could not really have had a true notion of what Poland was really like now can you ???

My girlfriend is from Poland and I go over a few times a year to stay with them, in their home. It gives me a fairly good idea of how things are for them. I understand that I am seeing it through tourist eyes. It's great that I can go over with as little as a few euro and buy whatever I want, but it's not the reality for people living there and trying to earn a living. It's a very expensive place for them.

katiebelle · 06-07-2011 12:17PM

elviscostello wrote: »

My girlfriend is from Poland and I go over a few times a year to stay with them, in their home. It gives me a fairly good idea of how things are for them. I understand that I am seeing it through tourist eyes. It's great that I can go over with as little as a few euro and buy whatever I want, but it's not the reality for people living there and trying to earn a living. It's a very expensive place for them.

So basically you are in a worse place to judge than my niece as not only did she live there for a while she also visited her boyfriend on a much more regular basis than you seem to have your GF. Ok well your opinion is your opinion and just that your opinion it does not make it fact. My niece has her opinion too as do my polish friends and its very different. So lets just leave it that shall we?

_feedback_ · 06-07-2011 12:28PM

katiebelle wrote: »

So basically you are in a worse place to judge than my niece as not only did she live there for a while she also visited her boyfriend on a much more regular basis than you seem to have your GF. Ok well your opinion is your opinion and just that your opinion it does not make it fact. My niece has her opinion too as do my polish friends and its very different. So lets just leave it that shall we?

Why are you being like that? I’m just explaining my point of view on it. Big deal if we have different opinions.

My point was, she stayed there (the same as I do) with a load of euro in her pocket.

A pint of beer is less than three euro. A meal out (nothing fancy) would be less than ten euro per person. The last time I was there, we stopped in for a fabulous massive pizza, with a lovely cold pint of beer. The bill for all three of us came to twenty euro! Cheap huh?!!

Now, take that and switch over to the local who is earning 500 zloty a week (that’s being generous in most cases). The beer cost ten zloty and the pizza with beer eighty zloty. Cheap?

Imagine paying a hundred euro for a pizza and a few beers? No way jose.

number10a · 06-07-2011 12:30PM

gigino wrote: »

+1. Lets not forget part of what caused the tiger property bubble was the sudden influx of a few hundred thousand people in to this country from Poland etc during the boom ....property developers , landlords etc could'nt build enough property ...prices went mad ...attracted more polish to build the apartments.....and the rent from the apartments they occupied while building the new ones helped fuel the fire. We were one of the few european countries to let unrestricted amounts in + it backfired. Now our Irish people are emigrating.

....and pushing up house prices and rents in other countries in turn. What makes you think that it's fine for Irish people to emigrate, but when others come here and do the same it's a big scandal???? Are we just a superior race or something?

mattjack · 06-07-2011 01:27PM

katiebelle wrote: »

Her boyfriend worked there and managed just find. A lot of friends went back to Poland and are working and living just fine. As I say they openly admitted they came here for the freedom. Poland was too conservative for them.
I actually rang a few of my polish friends and read softmee post about Poland and they were pretty livid Poland was being portrayed that way. They say one persons subjective opinion of their bad experience in Poland should not be put forward as how Poland is for everyone . Anyway I am bored with this now so back to work with me.

what a nice post...you make a point,complain to your friends about another persons opinion..and then announce you,re bored...now that does create a good impression.

saa · 06-07-2011 01:41PM

Free movement? well the EU has to change a lot of the things about how it operates, Immigration is fine but has to be managed like anything else so the country can be sustained. If you're traveling to work in a country if you cannot find the work you traveled over to get why are you still there.

I want to travel to work, I will have to go through so much **** to do that once my work dries up, unless I can get work within the next 6 months why would I be entitled to stay I got into the country for the sole purpose of working.

ahal · 06-07-2011 03:23PM

I think the problems of rapid expansion of the E.U. are coming home to roost. I voted against it, but hey, if you give something that's it done and dusted. It's not the fault of people wanting a better life, sure we all want that. What seems to have been happening lately is tinkering around the edges of the issue.

I could foresee this problem, but it looks like those who insisted we not be so greedy etc. and 'give others a chance' have now switched to "foreginers go home" mode.

softmee · 06-07-2011 03:50PM

katiebelle wrote: »

Her boyfriend worked there and managed just find. A lot of friends went back to Poland and are working and living just fine. As I say they openly admitted they came here for the freedom. Poland was too conservative for them.
I actually rang a few of my polish friends and read softmee post about Poland and they were pretty livid Poland was being portrayed that way. They say one persons subjective opinion of their bad experience in Poland should not be put forward as how Poland is for everyone . Anyway I am bored with this now so back to work with me.

Poland was too conservative? :rolleyes: Well maybe if you are coming from some small village or something. I was born in Gdansk and lived there for over 20 years and I think its much more sofisticated and modern then lets say Galway is...
I dont know who your friends are and what they do for living, as I mentioned before there are many people with money over there, but they are usually coming from wealthy families.
I was studying with people who got big help from their parents, they bought them apartments, they helped them to find a job. I wasnt that lucky, so I had to emigrate. I am not saying its not possible to earn good money there, but maybe you have to be bold and very "sharp"? Or just have some good technical profession?
And why it shouldnt be "put forward" how things are there? I was just trying to explain why we (polish people) are here.
Poland is a beautiful country with great history,culture, charming towns, but its just very hard to make living there and thats the fact and its nothing to argue about it here.
Why my friends (he is a teacher in high technical school, she works in creche) have to call me from time to time and ask if I could lend them some money -is this normal? They have two kids and live modest life, but cant afford to take their kids to the cinema sometimes!

Belly_Dancer · 06-07-2011 03:53PM

marco_polo wrote: »

Eh we operate an almost identical system for non EU nationals

well if that's so then good, but we need to process them faster in fairness to all concerned. and i would like to see this system extended to all other EU states also.

as far as GB/UK goes these islands a bilateral arrangement could ensure free movement between & within the British Isles continues as it has for 1,000s of years.

number10a · 06-07-2011 03:57PM

Belly_Dancer wrote: »

well if that's so then good, but we need to process them faster in fairness to all concerned. and i would like to see this system extended to all other EU states also.

You do realise that such EU policies work both ways?? We can't just start limiting immigration from other EU countries and expect to be able to walk into other EU states ourselves without any checks. If we put restrictions on people coming here, then Irish people will be restricted with where they can live and work too. Not a very good idea with the way things are at the moment considering so many of us have to leave to find work.

prinz · 06-07-2011 04:04PM

Belly_Dancer wrote: »

well if that's so then good, but we need to process them faster in fairness to all concerned. and i would like to see this system extended to all other EU states also. as far as GB/UK goes these islands a bilateral arrangement could ensure free movement between & within the British Isles continues as it has for 1,000s of years.

Yes, there was never free movement between other parts of Europe and the British Isles "for 1,000s of years" before the EU came along. I forgot the Angles, Jutes, Saxons, Normans, Romans, Vikings, Danes and friends all stopped off for immigration clearance first.

Belly_Dancer · 06-07-2011 04:09PM

number10a wrote: »

You do realise that such EU policies work both ways?? We can't just start limiting immigration from other EU countries and expect to be able to walk into other EU states ourselves without any checks. If we put restrictions on people coming here, then Irish people will be restricted with where they can live and work too. Not a very good idea with the way things are at the moment considering so many of us have to leave to find work.

i have no problem with that.
as someone who emigrated many times (and found work within days/weeks of arriving in my destination) i believe a 6 month time frame to find a job is most acceptable.
if you cannot find employment inside that time, then you've either made a bad mistake and/or are not that bothered. either way you should return home.

mattjack · 06-07-2011 04:10PM

softmee wrote: »

Poland was too conservative? :rolleyes: Well maybe if you are coming from some small village or something. I was born in Gdansk and lived there for over 20 years and I think its much more sofisticated and modern then lets say Galway is...
I dont know who your friends are and what they do for living, as I mentioned before there are many people with money over there, but they are usually coming from wealthy families.
I was studying with people who got big help from their parents, they bought them apartments, they helped them to find a job. I wasnt that lucky, so I had to emigrate. I am not saying its not possible to earn good money there, but maybe you have to be bold and very "sharp"? Or just have some good technical profession?
And why it shouldnt be "put forward" how things are there? I was just trying to explain why we (polish people) are here.
Poland is a beautiful country with great history,culture, charming towns, but its just very hard to make living there and thats the fact and its nothing to argue about it here.
Why my friends (he is a teacher in high technical school, she works in creche) have to call me from time to time and ask if I could lend them some money -is this normal? They have two kids and live modest life, but cant afford to take their kids to the cinema sometimes!

hi softmee.......just something a little differant...I,ve a cousin who has an aptpartment in Poland with his partner.................and he loves it

thomasj · 06-07-2011 04:11PM

I showed this article to my dutch cousins and they found it surprising that this only related to the province of holland and not the whole country.

Either that or the daily mail should invest in geography classes for its staff........

softmee · 06-07-2011 04:15PM

mattjack wrote: »

hi softmee.......just something a little differant...I,ve a cousin who has an aptpartment in Poland with his partner.................and he loves it

yyyy, so? :rolleyes: I would love it too...

number10a · 06-07-2011 04:17PM

Belly_Dancer wrote: »

i have no problem with that.
as someone who emigrated many times (and found work within days/weeks of arriving in my destination) i believe a 6 month time frame to find a job is most acceptable.
if you cannot find employment inside that time, then you've either made a bad mistake and/or are not that bothered. either way you should return home.

Sorry, took you up wrong so.

The way you've outlined is essentially the way the system works anyway - it's not law, but it works that way in practice. Obviously no one is forced out after six months are up, but unless you're a millionaire (and hence great for our economy), you'd be long gone from Ireland before six months if you can't find a job. So people are naturally forced out of the country through their own economic necessity. You have to have been living here for two years before you are eligible for any SW. So six months without an income in one of Europe's most expensive countries is impossible for most EU citizens, whether they're from Sweden or Bulgaria.

number10a · 06-07-2011 04:19PM

mattjack wrote: »

hi softmee.......just something a little differant...I,ve a cousin who has an aptpartment in Poland with his partner.................and he loves it

I'd second that. If Poland had even slightly higher wages I would be over there like a shot!! I love the place. Once my loan is paid off here, I will no longer need to live in a very high wage economy so straight to Poland with me!!

Can't wait for that day to come.

mattjack · 06-07-2011 04:20PM

softmee wrote: »

yyyy, so? :rolleyes: I would love it too...

i know you love it...

Lux23 · 06-07-2011 04:22PM

I don't have a problem with that. If I went off to Holland and couldn't find work I would return home, why is that any different for Polish workers? It can't be any fun living in a foreign country without any money anyway.

paky · 06-07-2011 04:29PM

why doesnt ireland ever show intiative like this? good old paddy irishman waits until things get too bad before anything is done about it.

PrzemoF · 06-07-2011 04:33PM

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

Where the hell are all these Poles coming from?

There must be nobody left in Poland if there all over Europe

Bad news, I heard that there is somethong like 40.000.000 left in Poland and they _all_ are going to invade Holland! Then they'll get voting rights and rename the country to Polland!

paky · 06-07-2011 04:37PM

this is just the beginning. its european economic colonisation. europe is a bad deal for small nations like ireland.

Holland set to boot out Polish immigrants who can't find work after 3 months.

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