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Sunderland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Interesting article from Steve Walton on transfers:

    http://www.safc.com/page/BusinessShortsDetail/0,,10281~2385077,00.html

    Sunderland AFC chief executive Steve Walton has outlined his thoughts on the phenomenon that is the football transfer window as the Black Cats continue to reshape their squad ahead of the 2010/11 Barclays Premier League season.
    Unlike almost any other industry, there are just two short windows of trade in existence in football, allowing clubs to buy and sell players in January and the summer period between June and the end of August, with an embargo effectively in place - and only very limited exceptions - for the rest of the year.

    The transfer window has been the source of much debate in footballing circles since the game's global governing body, FIFA, made it compulsory in 2002.
    And, while businesses in other industries continue to recruit and purchase new assets throughout the year, Steve - who has almost two decades of experience in the acquisition of players including ten years as Barclays' Director of Football, has explained the key anomalies that make the transfer window - and football clubs - truly extraordinary.

    "When I used to work for Barclays, I had all sorts of weird and wonderful clients who didn't fit the normal mould and football clubs were firmly in that department. Not so much the large," he explains, "But that's strange because football's profile is massively larger than its actual size.

    "One of the interesting facts is that every University in every city in the country is bigger than its football club. If you take Manchester United - the biggest football club in the UK and about the third largest in the world - it's dwarfed by Manchester University.

    "It's substantially larger. It has a bigger payroll, but if you put Manchester University into a search engine, you get about a million hits. If you put Manchester United into a search engine, you get about a hundred million hits. That's the difference between football and normal business in that respect.
    "It's also strange because of the nature of its principal asset, which is actually human beings. You could argue the same in universities if you keep the analogy going - their major assets are their academics.

    "The difference in football is that we put those assets on the balance sheets. Universities, advertising agencies, music promoters - they don't put their assets on the balance sheets in the same way."

    As Barclays Director of Football, Steve provided funding for more than half of the clubs in the Premier League, handling the unique process of transferring a player from club to club.

    "If you use the analogy that the footballer is our machinery and the piece of kit that will make the difference, you pretty much know what you're buying and you know how it's going to work.

    "In football, you buy this piece of kit but a human being is so complex. There are things you simply can't control or compensate for.

    "You're dealing with a person. Even if someone is going to move from the North West to the North East - it could be a three hour drive across the country - it would be a major decision for most people in terms of uprooting your wife and family, new schools and all the rest of it, and nobody thinks of that area particularly. They're often young families as well.

    "Typically, in normal businesses there is no security of contract," he comments, explaining why players can be bought and sold unlike other professionals. "A professor doesn't have a value to a University in its own right, for example. He has a value in terms of the research he can do and the students he might work with but you can't sell him to another University and make a profit, where in football, you can.

    "Eventually, that's why the accounting treatment of football clubs changed so that these intangible assets went on the balance sheet. We ended up with a situation whereby, in terms of accounting for football clubs, we had to put the players on at the price we bought them and then you amortise - you write them off - over the life of the contract.

    "The strange thing about that is, in reality, if you look at any balance sheet of any football club and see the value of the players, it's highly unlikely that will bear any resemblance to what the true value of the players are.
    "We all know, some players' values increase dramatically if they do well and conversely, others go in the opposite direction if they don't. A great example of that is Jordan Henderson. Jordan was on our balance sheet at 'nil' because he was a home-grown player.

    "He'd been with us since he was eight years old so we didn't pay for him in that respect. You could argue that our Academy isn't cheap to run and we had obviously developed him, but we sold him for a significant sum compared to that figure of nil.

    "By the same token, I'm sure you'll find that if you take a player bought for £4m over a four-year contract, ostensibly they way it would work is that every year £1m of his value would be written down so three years into his contract, that player on the books would be worth £1m.

    "But if he's done well for you, or really badly, that could be a lot different!"
    Sunderland and their competitors in the Barclays Premier League now have until the end of August to acquire players for the forthcoming season, a factor which Steve believes has hugely influenced modern managers, their transfer policies and, subsequently, the financing of the game.

    "There are plusses and minuses related to the transfer window," he adds. "I personally believe that because of the window and restricted nature, clubs tend to run with larger squads than they used to previously.

    "Before, if you had a slimmer squad and encountered a problem, you could just go out and buy someone straight away. Now, you can't do that and that is a danger that clubs - with the exception of goalkeepers - can't buy a player if there's a problem.

    "One of the real challenges of buying footballers is the fact it's so high profile.
    "When you are doing these transactions, it's very often in the public domain and sometimes it's in the interests of one or more of the parties involved to let things slip in the press.

    "Quite often, you do get things in the press which are there simply to create a market. Agents in particular will be looking to create some interest and it gets played out in the media far more. It seems to be an increasing trend.
    "For me, I've been involved in the acquisition of players - firstly as a banker and now in the football club - for years but it really doesn't take any longer to do the transaction.

    "Most of them just get in the media a lot earlier so I think there's a perception out there that it takes ages. The reality is, it doesn't take any longer than it used to do. It largely gets leaked because someone has a vested interest, even someone not involved in the transaction.

    "There's a ferocious appetite for copy by the newspapers for an industry where businesses don't even register as the biggest in their respective cities.
    "As businesses, they're relatively small. Sunderland Football Club isn't even in the top 50 businesses in the North East but in terms of column inches written about it, it's massive!"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭Kingdom Bhoy


    These Craig Bellamy rumours won't go away. Fine player but too injury prone for me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭BeanFlicker


    These Craig Bellamy rumours won't go away. Fine player but too injury prone for me.

    I'd rather have him than defoe (hate the basted), read somewhere Bellamy is trying to get City to buy out his contract??

    Any truth to these rumours about Gyan or just his agent up to the usual crap? Be pissed if he left


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Any truth to these rumours about Gyan or just his agent up to the usual crap? Be pissed if he left

    No truth at all mate.

    The same agent represents Muntari and tried to engineer a move to Turkey for him without his permission a few weeks ago and Muntari basically told him to **** off. He also represents Mensah and can't get a move anywhere for him because most clubs only want a pay-as-you-play and Lyon want to sell him this summer but want £4m.

    Basically the agent can't get a move for any of his clients this summer and is wanting the money!

    Gyan also came out with this today:

    http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/sunderland-afc/chris-young-column/more_to_come_from_sunderland_ace_gyan_1_3544304

    No need to worry IMO. Zenit are one of the clubs linked and they don't sign black players as their fans wouldn't allow it and Galatasary have made a bid well below our valuation and were told in no uncertain terms to **** off. Udinese are apparently after him too, but I doubt he'll go back. If they stick serious money on the table then who knows but Quinny has come out in the press and said we aren't selling, the day after the Mirror's lies were printed (which he didn't do with Bent and Henderson) and he'll be a Sunderland player this season.

    I do think he'll be off next year mind!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    If there was any possibility of getting Evans from United, it'd be a fantastic signing. With Vidic, Ferdinand, Smalling and Jones, it'll be hard for Evans to get games. I'm not sure on O'Shea and Brown but they probably can prove to be an improvement on what's there already if the were to sign.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Wes Brown will be a Sunderland player by close of play on Friday!

    Further to this, John O'Shea is coming up to Sunderland on Thursday and Darron Gibson won't be joining unless he lowers his outrageous wage demands.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    It'll be great to have strengthened the defence without relying on loan deals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭Kingdom Bhoy


    It'll be great to have strengthened the defence without relying on loan deals.

    Too right lets hope if Wes Brown does come that he can steer clear of injuries.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Too right lets hope if Wes Brown does come that he can steer clear of injuries.

    Dont think he has had quite the injury problems a lot make out. Still played a fair number of games for manu and will be a great addition along with O Shea. According to Bruce last night O Shea and Brown are quite close. Gibsons wage demands scuppering move. He can go and s**te the least of the three who should have high wage demands.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Paully D wrote: »
    Also, it looks like Riveros will sign for Kayserispor.

    Confirmed:

    http://www.safc.com/news/20110706/riveros-seals-turkish-move_2256213_2387396

    I'm slightly disappointed he didn't get more of an opportunity, but I guess with the new signings in midfield he was never going to get games this season.

    All the best to him. A nice man by all accounts.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    He could've been given more time alright but as he has been deemed surplus to requirements, I'm not going to argue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Steve Walton is going. Very surprising given we're in the middle of a transfer window, a time where Walton is most useful.

    http://www.safc.com/news/20110706/safc-confirms-changes-to-board_2256213_2387723

    Looks like Short is pulling the trigger and bringing his own people in now! Disappointed to lose Walton, always thought he was excellent, but I can understand why he'd be let go. I'm sure we'll bring in someone very good.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭Kingdom Bhoy


    Paully D wrote: »
    Steve Walton is going. Very surprising given we're in the middle of a transfer window, a time where Walton is most useful.

    http://www.safc.com/news/20110706/safc-confirms-changes-to-board_2256213_2387723

    Looks like Short is pulling the trigger and bringing his own people in now! Disappointed to lose Walton, always thought he was excellent, but I can understand why he'd be let go. I'm sure we'll bring in someone very good.

    I was impressed with Steve Walton and wish him well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    I've been impressed as well. I won't argue against Short though, I'm sure he has his plans on how the club can move forward off the field.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭Kingdom Bhoy


    Looks like Bolo Zenden is off to Nottingham Forest.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Looks like Bolo Zenden is off to Nottingham Forest.

    Aye, I heard that too. Would be a great signing for them and a nice move to a good club for Bolo. I think they'll cruise promotion next season under McClaren. Zenden can still do it in the Premier League in a 5 man midfield IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭Kingdom Bhoy


    Paully D wrote: »
    Aye, I heard that too. Would be a great signing for them and a nice move to a good club for Bolo. I think they'll cruise promotion next season under McClaren. Zenden can still do it in the Premier League in a 5 man midfield IMO.

    Nottingham Forest have got to be one of the favourites and Leicester seem to be pushing the boat out as well amongst others a very interesting season ahead in the championship.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,710 ✭✭✭✭Paully D


    Nottingham Forest have got to be one of the favourites and Leicester seem to be pushing the boat out as well amongst others a very interesting season ahead in the championship.

    Aye, West Ham, Forest, Leicester will be all in with a good shout of automatic promotion. I wouldn't be surprised to see 'Boro give the play-off's a good go too. Then you have the likes of Birmingham and Reading who'll fancy their chances too. It'll be a tough and entertaining league this season down there.

    I hear Phillips will sign for Blackpool, there'll be lots of ex-SAFC interest in the Championship next season.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    John O Shea having a medical this morning delighted if we secure him and Brown. Two quality signings who can also operate at full back when needed. Now just a left winger and striker to add and Ill be very happy .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,667 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Bruce is making his intentions clear by buying some decent players...

    Do ye still need a striker?

    If my mother tongue is shaking the foundations of your state, it probably means you built your state on my land.

    EVENFLOW



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Bruce is making his intentions clear by buying some decent players...

    Do ye still need a striker?

    I would still take another experienced striker. We only have wickham, dong who lack experience and gyan who will be away at the anc. Campbell prob wont play again this season. Would deffo get one more in even the likes of dj campbell who will do a job.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Sasquatch76


    If O'Shea and Brown sign, who do you see being your first choice back four lads?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If O'Shea and Brown sign, who do you see being your first choice back four lads?

    I would have

    Brown O Shea Bramble Bardsley


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭slingerz


    think O'Shea will be in my inital FF team this season anyway. hopefully he'll be cheap enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Sasquatch76


    Thanks only1kilbane.
    slingerz wrote: »
    think O'Shea will be in my inital FF team this season anyway. hopefully he'll be cheap enough.
    Yeah, depends when the game opens. If it's soon, he'll still be at Utd's price which should be 5 - 5.5m.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭BeanFlicker


    Paully D wrote: »
    Confirmed:

    http://www.safc.com/news/20110706/riveros-seals-turkish-move_2256213_2387396

    I'm slightly disappointed he didn't get more of an opportunity, but I guess with the new signings in midfield he was never going to get games this season.

    All the best to him. A nice man by all accounts.

    No word of option to buy from that link, hope him all the best anyway, just wasn't up to the pace of the game
    If O'Shea and Brown sign, who do you see being your first choice back four lads?
    I would have

    Brown O Shea Bramble Bardsley

    Yea i'd go with that or

    Bardsley---O'Shea---Bramble---Rico


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    David Vaughan having a medical now good squad player for nowt. Only on 7k a week at blackpool so wages wont be massive.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,299 ✭✭✭slingerz


    David Vaughan having a medical now good squad player for nowt. Only on 7k a week at blackpool so wages wont be massive.

    he is a good player and would be more than just a squad player.

    Bruce is making some good moves in the transfer window he's certainly putting the funds from the Bent and Henderson transfers to good use I'd expect a top half finish for sunderland definitely and maybe more if they get a good goalscorer in to compliment Gyan.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    slingerz wrote: »
    he is a good player and would be more than just a squad player.

    Bruce is making some good moves in the transfer window he's certainly putting the funds from the Bent and Henderson transfers to good use I'd expect a top half finish for sunderland definitely and maybe more if they get a good goalscorer in to compliment Gyan.

    Yeah think the two missing pieces now if im been greedy are a good left winger and a experienced striker.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    slingerz wrote: »
    he is a good player and would be more than just a squad player.

    Bruce is making some good moves in the transfer window he's certainly putting the funds from the Bent and Henderson transfers to good use I'd expect a top half finish for sunderland definitely and maybe more if they get a good goalscorer in to compliment Gyan.

    Yeah would like another striker and a left winger to finish things off. Great work from Bruce and Quinn fair play great to get all our business done quick so they can bed in for pre season.


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