Should religion be taught in schools?

philologos · 03-07-2011 05:19PM

I've asked you to give another reason for it and they've really been very weak. That's why I'm concluding the more reasonable option being that the Bible does inspire ethical behaviour in people who read it on a regular basis.

God loved the world so much that if they are willing they will be spared from the punishment they rightfully deserve.

There is no distinction between the God of the Old and New Testaments in that they are the same. The Old Testament describes the covenant relationship between God and the Israelites, and the New Testament describes the covenant relationship between God and those who are willing to follow Him through accepting His Son Jesus. The first led to the second which is why Christians regard the Old Testament as a sign of what was to come. If you wish to regard God as a demon be my guest, but as far as I see it is unconvincing.

Rabidlamb · 03-07-2011 05:28PM

The Bible should be taught in school under the heading of English fiction.
Fairytales are very good for developing a child's imagination.

Cú Giobach · 03-07-2011 05:51PM

philologos wrote: »

God loved the world so much that if they are willing they will be spared from the punishment they rightfully deserve.

Spoken like a true follower of Yahweh The Malevolent.

sock puppet · 03-07-2011 06:10PM

philologos wrote: »

I've asked you to give another reason for it and they've really been very weak. That's why I'm concluding the more reasonable option being that the Bible does inspire ethical behaviour in people who read it on a regular basis.

Wrong again. Even if we were to accept (with abolutely no evidence) that reading the Bible did cause these people to spend more time volunteering it would only be true for evangelical Christians as they were the only ones surveyed.

sheesh · 03-07-2011 06:12PM

so after all that fighting can we say religon classes for some small american flags for others?

Needler · 03-07-2011 06:13PM

Religion was my favourite subject

Needler · 03-07-2011 06:14PM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

I'm sure you are wise enough to understand the concept of "cum hoc ergo propter hoc"

Sounds dirty

philologos · 03-07-2011 06:18PM

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Spoken like a true follower of Yahweh The Malevolent.

I don't see how that is malevolent in the slightest. It's essential to Christian teaching as far as Jesus communicated it as well. His Gospel was essentially repent and believe. Belief creating a transformation in the individual, God guiding an individual to live in His creation and serving those around them. Perhaps I'm insane but I honestly find the most powerful thing one can ever know

sock puppet wrote:

Wrong again. Even if we were to accept (with abolutely no evidence) that reading the Bible did cause these people to spend more time volunteering it would only be true for evangelical Christians as they were the only ones surveyed.

Apart from the poll results. Also I agree it would be only true of evangelical Christians. Evangelical Christianity is firmly based on the Biblical text, so I have no doubt that the Bible does inspire individual evangelicals. Although I don't really distinguish between evangelicalism and Christianity because the former is an essential part of the latter no matter what denomination one claims to be a part of.

strobe · 03-07-2011 06:40PM

philologos wrote: »

Perhaps I'm insane

Perhaps...?

:pac:

dvpower · 03-07-2011 06:54PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

Sop they won't feel "left out". As I said already, you have to stand up for your beliefs/principles - whatever they are. Grow a pair indeed.

No. Not so they won't feel left out. Where did you get this idea?

To promote tolerance and understanding.

Niles · 03-07-2011 07:09PM

Going back to the poll itself, I've yet to vote as I feel it's too simplistic. I think more options are needed to give a clearer picture. As it is I wouldn't vote yes or no.

If the question being asked was "Should religion be mandatory in schools?", I would vote "No".

PeterIanStaker · 03-07-2011 10:15PM

Nope.

HUNK · 04-07-2011 01:47AM

Nope. Critical Thinking on the other hand... :pac:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-07-2011 04:49AM

philologos wrote: »

I don't see how that is malevolent in the slightest. It's essential to Christian teaching as far as Jesus communicated it as well. His Gospel was essentially repent and believe. Belief creating a transformation in the individual, God guiding an individual to live in His creation and serving those around them. Perhaps I'm insane but I honestly find the most powerful thing one can ever know

Apart from the poll results. Also I agree it would be only true of evangelical Christians. Evangelical Christianity is firmly based on the Biblical text, so I have no doubt that the Bible does inspire individual evangelicals. Although I don't really distinguish between evangelicalism and Christianity because the former is an essential part of the latter no matter what denomination one claims to be a part of.

Did you used to be Jakkass...?

Anyway, what does this have to do with whether or not it should be thought in school?

Turtwig · 04-07-2011 06:37AM

This one is simple :
Should religion be taught to children?
Yes.

Should state schools be allowed to indoctrinate children into a religion?
No.

JimiWonderDoor 92 · 04-07-2011 06:52AM

Malty_T wrote: »

This one is simple :
Should religion be taught to children?
Yes.

Should state schools be allowed to indoctrinate children into a religion?
No.

malty T, I think the same question could be asked about whether FIFA 99 should thought in our schools.

Although it would obviously be thought of in terms of the history, rather than as the be all and all.

I feel FM2004 would more suited as way of teaching our youths how to manage their lives, dont you?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-07-2011 07:21AM

JimiWonderDoor 92 wrote: »

malty T, I think the same question could be asked about whether FIFA 99 should thought in our schools.

Although it would obviously be thought of in terms of the history, rather than as the be all and all.

I feel FM2004 would more suited as way of teaching our youths how to manage their lives, dont you?

Interesting gambit.

The tactical element would also teach some form of non-linear thinking as well as the cultural aspect of the game. The only problem I see here is that, other than Ireland not qualifying for a major tournament for a decade or three, how is it going fear and living hell into students' lives?

JimiWonderDoor 92 · 04-07-2011 07:26AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Interesting gambit.

The tactical element would also teach some form of non-linear thinking as well as the cultural aspect of the game. The only problem I see here is that, other than Ireland not qualifying for a major tournament for a decade or three, how is it going fear and living hell into students' lives?

I feel that the Draconian nature of tactics found in the Irish team should keep tabs on that.

And for any fancy dans like Andy Reid who try to play guitar or show any such talents we shall shun such abilities and keep the children in the aforementioned system.

Cú Giobach · 04-07-2011 07:50AM

philologos wrote: »

God loved the world so much that if they are willing they will be spared from the punishment they rightfully deserve.[........] I don't see how that is malevolent in the slightest.

Malevolent:
wishing evil or harm to another or others

There are millions of Hindus who live good lives, if someone worships and prays to Vishnu and spends their whole life helping the sick and poor loving their neighbour and never harming another living soul, you would feel it is just and right that this person has an eternity of suffering because they are following the "wrong god".
The same for a truly good Buddhist for whom the concept of a creator god is inconceivable and could no more accept the Christian ideal than you could reincarnation.
Believing these people deserve eternal torment is malevolent and evil, there is nothing good or just about this ideal and it is the mindset of the minion of a spiteful and vindictive overlord.

People who have grown up and follow in the Christian tradition don't seem to be able to conceive the inherent malevolence in the concept of hell, but those of us on the outside who have had the wool lifted from our eyes can see it with a blinding clarity.

MagicSean · 04-07-2011 08:26AM

Crow92 wrote: »

I think religion should be taught in school, world religion, informative information on the beliefs of all the major religions of the world, not focusing on raising you as a catholic but teaching you above all different religions.

+1

There's no point pretending it doesn't exist and have a massive influence on the entire world.

Powerhouse · 04-07-2011 09:14AM

Tehachapi wrote: »

I have a big problem with this, and believe it is destroying childrens minds early on in life. Just today I am reading in the newspaper we have a huge shortage of science/maths/technology skilled people in this country. Here's my theory of 1 of the reasons why:

Does this start in childhood? I went to a catholic school and was taught all the christian bullsh1t, for example - you can't tell children in 1 class "Jesus walked on water" then in the next class teach them the scientific properties of water and expect them to understand it properly. Or that "Jesus turned a small amount of loaves/fishes into enough to feed thousands", then expect them not to be confused when being taught food science. One more example (I could list many more) , is resurrection. You can't teach children that magical resurrection after being dead for 3 days is possible, then expect them to properly understand biology. God putting man on earth, then expecting them to understand genetics, evolution, cells, etc.

Some will argue "oh those stories are just symbolic" - that is bullsh1t. There is no reference card indicating which parts of the bible are to be interpreted as fact, and which as symbolic. Why not just stamp it out altogether, stick to the facts and let them decide on a faith when they are adults , if they want to instead of it being rammed down their throats. These are young, innocent, highly impressionable children. Others will argue that they should be taught about all faiths like is being done for junior cert religion now, but again I find this nonsensical. If I make up a religion tomorrow, praising leprechaun ghosts- should that be taught about too? Where do you draw the line?

This is utter bullsh1t. The argument that talk in religion of a few 'miracles' (there's a clue in the name - it is never suggested as the norm) makes it impossible for people to 'believe' in science is nonsense and completely at odds with reality. And gives most school going kids far too much credit for profound thinking.

Secondly, when you praising leprechaun ghosts religion gains such critical mass that an understanding of it is necessary in order to understand how people in different parts of the world operate and think then certainly it would be worth your while making a case for its teaching. That's where I'd drawe the line.

Incidentally I was a reader for a young guy in the Junior Cert this year and saw nothing on the religion paper can was not 'sticking to the facts'. It was simply assessing people knowledge on various religions. And quite interesting it was too if one is interested in what makes people tick.

Powerhouse · 04-07-2011 09:16AM

Malty_T wrote: »

This one is simple :
Should religion be taught to children?
Yes.

Should state schools be allowed to indoctrinate children into a religion?
No.

The poll in this thread asked the first question only. The other is a red herring in the debate.

Seachmall · 04-07-2011 09:21AM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Incidentally I was a reader for a young guy in the Junior Cert this year and saw nothing on the religion paper can was not 'sticking to the facts'. It was simply assessing people knowledge on various religions. And quite interesting it was too if one is interested in what makes people tick.

This. I did my JC religion paper as a skeptic (not quite an atheist, closer to agnostic) and had no problem with the curriculum. It was objective and factual information as oppose to indoctrinating children. It was one the more interesting classes.

Of course there is the problem of teachers deciding for themselves that one religion more correct than the other but that's a total deviation from what the class is supposed to teach. I had one teacher who did this and I ended up walking out of the class (arguably kicked out of the class), surprisingly the 2 priests in school who taught religion were completely understanding to criticisms raised by students where-as the other teacher was completely ignorant of anything that didn't fit her world view. This is an issue with individual teachers though, not religion as a class.

philologos · 04-07-2011 09:22AM

Powerhouse wrote: »

This is utter bullsh1t. The argument that talk in religion of a few 'miracles' (there's a clue in the name - it is never suggested as the norm) makes it impossible for people to 'believe' in science is nonsense and completely at odds with reality. And gives most school going kids far too much credit for profound thinking.

Secondly, when you praising leprechaun ghosts religion gains such critical mass that an understanding of it is necessary in order to understand how people in different parts of the world operate and think then certainly it would be worth your while making a case for its teaching. That's where I'd drawe the line.

Incidentally I was a reader for a young guy in the Junior Cert this year and saw nothing on the religion paper can was not 'sticking to the facts'. It was simply assessing people knowledge on various religions. And quite interesting it was too if one is interested in what makes people tick.

[...]

smash · 04-07-2011 10:08AM

It's hard for children to make up their own minds about religion when it's engraved into them in school at such a young age. I 100% disagree with it.

Genghiz Cohen · 04-07-2011 10:20AM

Yes but I want the flaws or religion taught as well, let the children make up their own mid.

philologos · 04-07-2011 10:23AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Did you used to be Jakkass...?

Yes.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Anyway, what does this have to do with whether or not it should be thought in school?

Absolutely nothing but if you read back in the thread you'll see how we got there.

Genghiz Cohen: Atheism and Agnosticism are on the Junior and Leaving Cert curriculum for R.E already.

steve06 wrote: »

It's hard for children to make up their own minds about religion when it's engraved into them in school at such a young age. I 100% disagree with it.

The other side of the argument is how can you reasonably expect someone to make up their own minds about something they don't know about?

smash · 04-07-2011 10:32AM

philologos wrote: »

The other side of the argument is how can you reasonably expect someone to make up their own minds about something they don't know about?

Maybe by teaching about various religions from the start and not drilling them with the beliefs of one. Religion should also not be thought as fact, it's an opinion!

Seachmall · 04-07-2011 10:33AM

steve06 wrote: »

It's hard for children to make up their own minds about religion when it's engraved into them in school at such a young age. I 100% disagree with it.

Children will learn about religion from family and friends anyway.

Teaching comparative religion, and having someone give you clear and objective answers to questions, only gives you a better understanding of the religion taught at home.

If taught correctly it will give children a chance to question perceived flaws that would just be ignored at home as well as teaching them about what was one of the biggest influences on society, art, law, etc. in history.

Seachmall · 04-07-2011 11:03AM

keithob wrote: »

hey,

have our 4 y/o starting Irish School in Aug of this year... he will also be learning religion...Catholicism.... im a non believer in ''God'' however id prefer if he was to learn bout all religions of the world and how to respect each of them and let him choose his own beliefs as he progresses through life....

Do you know by any chance if the school will be teaching Catholicism exclusively or will be doing a comparative of different religions? Or does anyone know the norm?

It's been a while since I was in primary, can't remember which we did

Should religion be taught in schools?

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