School Class Snobbery

amen wrote: »

of course it should. Why someone who say is very good at Maths/Science and who want to do medicine be stuck with someone who is poor at Maths. Do you intend for the teacher to teach Lower and Higher (and maybe even Foundation level) in the one class?

Sometimes you just need to grade classed based on ability. I would agree though that for classed such as Religion, Civics there is no need.

Following on from your analogy there is no need for grading in anything, we should have races, shouldn't pay those who do a good job more etc.

Yeh but I dont think the op meant honours, to pass to foundation level.

I think he meant like in my school you had six form classes 1 to 6. One was people who done the worst in the entrance exam and 6 was the highest luckily for me I ended up in 3 very average student.

Now this did not mean you couldnt do honours, pass or foundation it did mean you only mixed with certain classes or elements, like a person from 6 would never end up sharing a class with some from 1.

So basically if you did bad in the entrance exam you were screwed really if you did good you were given all the benefits.

i.e class one which did has it fiar share of dim wits in fairness was also full of the most trouble makers so for the few in that class with brains, or who were painfully shy or especially easy prey to peer pressure school beacme a living hell for them.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Would it not make sense to deal with the real problem there, which would be getting rid of or somehow dealing with the trouble makers? Instead of holding back the better students, and scattering trouble makers into all the classes...

Maybe but what solution would you reccomment to deal with the trouble makers? You cant just kick them out and make them someone elses problem.

Plus you say holding back the better students, but arent we all meant to be given the same opportunitys in our society regardless of social class or aptitude for school, like just because someones not got as high an i.q doesnt mean theyve not got a talent for English or Maths etc.

As a human being and student I think were all entitled to the same benefits not one class with better teachers and other fecked in with some student teacher still learning the way. Poverty breeds poverty children from lower classes or lower i.q need extra help to make it in this world and not be the next inmate in mountjoy and its when there children it counts most. The intelligent children or ones with good up bringing will generally make it on there own or with parents help.

Naikon wrote: »

Of course, getting people to college is the sole purpose of education. I almost forgot. Fcuk the people who drop out, they aren't worth ****:rolleyes:

Yeah, I know you're being sarcastic (and you're absolutely right to be) but unfortunately the pressure more and more in recent years is coming from the points race and getting into college. An awful lot of this pressure is coming from the parents and the students themselves, and while some teachers are happy to go along, many are uncomfortable with it and resist it. It's a bit like resisting the incoming tide though. I know schools which have had to cancel extra-curricular activities, and indeed in-class activities which they would see as core to education (as opposed to maximising points), because parents kicked up so much about the "waste of time".

Looking at some of the comments above, I am reassured once again that I went to a "good" school. I don't mean a snobby school, or one that thought points were the be all and end all, I mean a genuinely good school.

Yes, we were broken into groups in first year, you can't teach everyone together, but the streaming was based more on peoples subject choices than anything else (same after Junior Cert). And the groups were very permeable ... someone might be in the Honours class for say languages and English, and doing pass maths, or doing pass English and Irish hons maths and sciences. Insofar as it was possible, they tried to be as flexible as they could.

Nor was it all certain teachers teach hons, certain teachers teach pass; normally, they swapped each year, e.g., Teacher A would take the hons maths group this year and Teacher B the pass class, and next year they would do it the other way round.

And in fairness, while they weren't all absolutely brilliant teachers, none of them were terrible either. They tended to range from average to very good, with one or two outstanding. Only one or two of them that I can think of might I characterise as a bit lazy, and even at that, it mostly boiled down to the odd doss class once in a blue moon.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Why not? I don't have any great solution, but perhaps there could be special schools for troublemakers? Does anyone ever remember a serious, hardcore trouble maker that suddenly reformed and became a great student? Nor do I. If you put them in a different school, you could actually tailor the studies towards things that would interest and/or be useful to them.

So you want to put troublemakers all in the one school that would be a disastrous idea, theyd all just feed oof each other and make each other worse, itd be like a whos who of whos going to end up in mountjoy. Also actually yes I do, I know a few to be honest i.e a friend of mine who constantly got in trouble and eventually got kicked out of school in 5th year for smoking cannabis is now living in America at 27 and studying for his PHD the man is genius but if you had asked any of the teachers from my school theyd tell you he was waste of space.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Um...I think it does. If you have a talent for language or mathematics, by definition you won't have a low IQ (although IQ is a fairly discredited measure of intelligence). And we do all have the same opportunities - you don't get no education just because you are below average. You don't get to study at the highest level though, because it would be a waste of time for you and others. You study at a level you can cope with. According to your argument, I should be on the phone giving out to Man Utd because they didn't take me on as an apprentice pro footballer (just because I'm only an average player - so unfair!).

So you just contradicted yourself there really some student can be realy poos at one subect but be great at another, just look at autism for years they were judged to be stupid and they cant interact socially with people and can appear to be stupid but some of them are the most gifted people youll ever meet at cetain things. Yes you do study at a level you can cop with but your missing my point yes your level maybe pass, honours even foundation but being lumped in with one class before youve even had a chance to discover what your real level is doesnt give you the same opportunitys.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Teachers teaching the lower classes are not necessarily worse teachers - in fact, they may be better. They certainly need a different approach, trying to teach students, some of whom may be - let's be honest here - quite stupid. You can't make a stupid student clever with better teachers - that is cloud cuckoo land stuff. I don't know if the state has a duty to raise the children of parents who can't be arsed to do it right themselves.

Im sorry but going by my own experiences the teachers teaching lower classes are a lower standard of teacher, they got the studnet teachers, the teachers who never showed, the new untested teacher in the school etc, the better classes got the teachers whod been there years and proven themselves to be good teachers. True you cant make a stupid student clever with better teachers, but you can give them a better education and better prepare them for life after school when they leave fact. Well I do think the state does have a responsibility to help raise children whose parent dont give two damns because if the state doesnt there the ones who will become a burden on the state when they become older, which would you rather the state to educate these children better so when they reach the age they get a job etc or state not care throw them in dumb classes with teacher who dont care and later on we pay taxes while they sit on the dole there whole livesor we pay to keep them in jail?

almostnever wrote: »

I'm all for streaming based on ability. From a young age. All I ever felt in school was boredom and frustration-can't remember learning much, it just felt like such a waste of my time because it did not challenge or stimulate me in the slightest. Primary school especially, doing the same thing practically every single day. Whereas now, at college, I can move at the pace I feel will benefit me most, I have access to a wealth of information and I'm actively encouraged to read up on things which interest me, even if they're not strictly related to the lecture material, and if I have any questions or queries or want to discuss a topic with an expert, I can meet with an academic and do so. A stark contrast to school, where asking questions was strongly discouraged, especially in my science classes because anything I wanted to know was "beyond the scope of the course" and we moved at a snail's pace all the bloody time. :rolleyes:

You kind of ust proved my point that less intelligent students need more help.See you were bored didnt get the attention you wanted or deserved but at the end of the day arent you still in college getting the education you craved and arent you going to make a good life for yourself? Were as some the students who were slacking behind you might just be in college now with the extra help from the teachers, you wouldve made it regardless and fair play to you for it.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The B class had all the fun:cool:

B class for life

Naikon wrote: »

You miss the point entirely. There are Higher level messer classes in my old school. The problem is streaming, not the Higher/Ordinary distinction. I don't think it's right that more resources are pumped into
the upper class, whereas the peasants get very little. I never heard of teachers missing for weeks on end in the "better" classes. I honestly believe the lemon teachers were assigned to the messer classes as
a last resort, because they aren't much use apart from babysitting duties. The constant smell of grass was off putting to say the least.

Happened to our class a couple of times...