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Nuclear fallout? / Media blackout?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    The mainstream media have cooled off the story for sure, no more 24 hour monitoring etc, etc,

    As mentioned during this thread there are many news agencies reporting regularly, but I suspect that you, like many millions more, just never watch them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ed2hands viewpost.gif
    This is going in circles now. If you read back this thread i explained to you already exactly why i'm of the opinion it was downplayed in general.
    King Mob wrote: »
    You haven't.

    :)Yes i have. Look back at the thread one more time if you need to. I wrote exactly this:
    "The basis i have for concluding the current level of attention is inadequate is that much of mainstream medias editorial policy panders to establishment sentiment on nuclear policy as everything; the industry, the regulators and the govt are are in bed together as usual it seems, so it makes sense that they would be doing their best to downplay the whole thing as much as possible."

    King Mob wrote: »
    But I have asked you for something that can evidence your opinion:
    Show us examples of media sources that aren't downplaying the disaster and explain how you are telling the difference

    And i am politely refusing for reasons already stated above.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ed2hands wrote: »
    This is going in circles now. If you read back this thread i explained to you already exactly why i'm of the opinion it was downplayed in general.


    :)Yes i have. Look back at the thread one more time if you need to. I wrote exactly this:
    "The basis i have for concluding the current level of attention is inadequate is that much of mainstream medias editorial policy panders to establishment sentiment on nuclear policy as everything; the industry, the regulators and the govt are are in bed together as usual it seems, so it makes sense that they would be doing their best to downplay the whole thing as much as possible."


    And i am politely refusing for reasons already stated above.
    Ah right, you're basing it all on an unsubstantiated accusation then assuming that it's true. I was looking for something actually substantial, probably why I missed it.

    So just to be clear you've failed to provide any example of the media downplaying anything, you've failed to provide any evidence that anyone from the nuclear power lobby pressured any one to do anything and you can't explain why you actually know that there's a conspiracy going on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    King Mob wrote: »
    Ah right, you're basing it all on an unsubstantiated accusation then assuming that it's true. I was looking for something actually substantial, probably why I missed it.

    So just to be clear you've failed to provide any example of the media downplaying anything, you've failed to provide any evidence that anyone from the nuclear power lobby pressured any one to do anything and you can't explain why you actually know that there's a conspiracy going on?


    ...or another way to put it would be:

    I've given you my OPINION on it:). I would have thought i was abundantly clear on that. Thats it's my OPINION that it's true.

    This is a forum, not a court room King Mob and i wont always bother to go fetch your much loved "evidence", no matter how many times you ask, or make the point of my failures:), especially when there can be no real "evidence" of subtle media downplaying in US/Japan/UK/wherever IMO only opinion. I mean i'm am not in attendance at any editorial meetings of major news organisations:) and i certainly don't have time to go through the news reports since it happened. But i gather no-one wants to be reading a cross-examination and disecting of my little posts so am gonna leave it at that. I'll leave the last word to you...


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ed2hands wrote: »
    ...or another way to put it would be:

    I've given you my OPINION on it:). I would have thought i was abundantly clear on that. Thats it's my OPINION that it's true.

    This is a forum, not a court room King Mob and i wont always bother to go fetch your much loved "evidence", no matter how many times you ask, or make the point of my failures:), especially when there can be no real "evidence" of subtle media downplaying in US/Japan/UK/wherever IMO only opinion. I mean i'm am not in attendance at any editorial meetings of major news organisations:) and i certainly don't have time to go through the news reports since it happened. But i gather no-one wants to be reading a cross-examination and disecting of my little posts so am gonna leave it at that. I'll leave the last word to you...

    You can say it's your opinion if you like, but since you don't think you don't have to support it, it's no different than something you've just dreamed up.

    And you know at this point I'd settle for you pointing to even a single example of this downplaying.
    But I'm not going to hold my breath.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    King Mob wrote: »
    You can say it's your opinion if you like, but since you don't think you don't have to support it, it's no different than something you've just dreamed up.

    And you know at this point I'd settle for you pointing to even a single example of this downplaying.
    But I'm not going to hold my breath.


    I'm sorry to disappoint and all that. This is NOT evidence or a continuation of our debate, but this mans blog pretty much nails it for me about the media aspect and is emminently more readable that my dribbles above. Worth a read.


    http://billtotten.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/downplaying-deadly-dangers-in-japan-and-at-home/


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ed2hands wrote: »
    I'm sorry to disappoint and all that. This is NOT evidence or a continuation of our debate, but this mans blog pretty much nails it for me about the media aspect and is emminently more readable that my dribbles above. Worth a read.


    http://billtotten.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/downplaying-deadly-dangers-in-japan-and-at-home/

    Just more of the same unsubstantiated opinion you've been providing, but with added scientific illiteracy.
    Now most scientists acknowledge that any amount of radioactivity can lead to illness and death, especially in fetuses and children whose cells are dividing more rapidly than in adults.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation

    Best head for out lead lined bunkers then....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    King Mob wrote: »
    Just more of the same unsubstantiated opinion you've been providing, but with added scientific illiteracy.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation

    Best head for out lead lined bunkers then....

    The science is far from settled on radiation and it's effects as you well know.
    And on a lighter note, you're one to talk about scientific illiteracy after that Monsanto thread:).
    You got put into 33's "naughty chair" good and proper!:pac:.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ed2hands wrote: »
    The science is far from settled on radiation and it's effects as you well know.
    No, the science is pretty well understood by actual scientists.
    Bloggers and yourself not so much apparently.

    You are being bombarded with radiation right now. Everyone is.
    If what the author says is true then every single person must be dying of radiation as any amount of radioactivity can lead to illness and death.

    But in reality most scientists understand that human bodies are able to cope with certain levels of radiation doses. But that doesn't sound scary.
    ed2hands wrote: »
    And on a lighter note, you're one to talk about scientific illiteracy after that Monsanto thread:).
    You got put into 33's "naughty chair" good and proper!:pac:.
    Unfortunately there's a difference between not being bothered to read propaganda and knowing about stuff like back round radiation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    :)Well i don't think the blogger was strictly correct on that statement alright, but i gather he was talking about uramium or plutonium? Don't you think? And i'm aware of backround radiation believe it or not.
    You say "the science is pretty well understood". By that don't you mean that there is still fierce debate about the true long-term effects of radiation? Or did that debate finish tonight all of a sudden?


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ed2hands wrote: »
    :)Well i don't think the blogger was strictly correct on that statement alright, but i gather he was talking about uramium or plutonium? Don't you think?
    But he wasn't referring to uranium or plutonium or any other radioactive substance. He said all radiation.

    Since he was "not strictly correct" or wrong in less weasely words we can conclude that either he was A: ignorant of how radiation works or B: deliberately disingenuous so his article can be more sensational.

    I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's A.
    ed2hands wrote: »
    And i'm aware of backround radiation believe it or not.
    So then how come you didn't think it was weird that he made such a wrong claim?
    ed2hands wrote: »
    You say "the science is pretty well understood". By that don't you mean that there is still fierce debate about the true long-term effects of radiation? Or did that debate finish tonight all of a sudden?
    There's not much debate. It's pretty well understood what the different types of radiation do to the body and what doses cause problems.
    At the very least they are understood to the extent that the statement "any amount of radioactivity can lead to illness and death" is wrong.

    But then questions about long term effects of radiation that scientists don't know about make for great scaremongering fodder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    King Mob wrote: »
    There's not much debate. It's pretty well understood what the different types of radiation do to the body and what doses cause problems

    Ha! Not much debate? Just google "debate on long-term effects of radiation" and there's plenty there. "Pretty well understood"? So not FULLY understood then. Weasely words indeed:rolleyes:


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ed2hands wrote: »
    Ha! Not much debate? Just google "debate on long-term effects of radiation" and there's plenty there. "Pretty well understood"? So not FULLY understood then. Weasely words indeed:rolleyes:
    Shall I assume you're not actually interested in adult debate any more?
    Cause you've seem to have given up not only defending your original points you've stopped actually addressing mine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    O so i'm childish as well as weasely:D. Thanks King Mob! Assume whatever you like:).


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ed2hands wrote: »
    O so i'm childish as well as weasely:D. Thanks King Mob! Assume whatever you like:).

    Thought as much.
    But I suppose asking stuff like "how do you know that?" and "what evidence did you use to reach that conclusion?" is a bit too tough for some.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    King Mob wrote: »
    Thought as much.
    But I suppose asking stuff like "how do you know that?" and "what evidence did you use to reach that conclusion?" is a bit too tough for some.


    :pac:OO! King Mob, are you saying that i am not intelligent ? Or lazy? Or dishonest? Or childish? Or all of the above? Out with it now. Don't beat around the bush. I can take it. You're implying it but not saying it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    ed2hands wrote: »
    You're implying it but not saying it.

    But if it was said, it'd probably earn him/her a week's holiday from the forum, so I guess innuendo is all you're gonna get.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    I see Data's still making friends. Remember that episode he smiled?, only time in 6,000+ episodes. :pac:

    Anywho dudes. Not sure if this was mentioned as I have been in holidaying in Turkey for the past week. I hear there is another media blackout of a meltdown at Fort Calhoun in Nebraska.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭Lab_Mouse


    Talk E wrote: »
    I see Data's still making friends. Remember that episode he smiled?, only time in 6,000+ episodes. :pac:

    Anywho dudes. Not sure if this was mentioned as I have been in holidaying in Turkey for the past week. I hear there is another media blackout of a meltdown at Fort Calhoun in Nebraska.

    i heard it on boards first!!.A boardsie rang a friend ,got no reply and then googled,to his horror, where his friend lived!!!as you do when somebody doesnt answer the phone:pac:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056303590


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    Talk E wrote: »
    I see Data's still making friends. Remember that episode he smiled?, only time in 6,000+ episodes. :pac:

    Anywho dudes. Not sure if this was mentioned as I have been in holidaying in Turkey for the past week. I hear there is another media blackout of a meltdown at Fort Calhoun in Nebraska.

    You lucky fecker:D. Good to have you back.

    About that US leak, jonny7 posted it up above somewhere. Am looking forward to hearing what good 'ol Arnie Gunderson has to say about it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    Quote:
    Now most scientists acknowledge that any amount of radioactivity CAN lead to illness and death, especially in fetuses and children whose cells are dividing more rapidly than in adults.
    http://billtotten.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/downplaying-deadly-dangers-in-japan-and-at-home/
    King Mob wrote: »
    Just more of the same unsubstantiated opinion you've been providing, but with added scientific illiteracy.

    Since he was "not strictly correct" or wrong in less weasely words we can conclude that either he was A: ignorant of how radiation works or B: deliberately disingenuous so his article can be more sensational.

    So would a National Academies of Science report suffice as "evidence" of actual accuracy of the above quote, however small the actual fatalities are by small doses?

    http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/0001165/48/

    The above quote IS strictly correct as it turns out.:) So you're "wrong" it seems.
    Am not fetching the report for you so don't bother to ask.
    King Mob wrote: »
    Or you know if you weren't looking for a conspiracy it could be that the company spokespeople simply didn't have good information at the time?

    Just more of the same unsubstantiated opinion you've been providing.
    So would you care to provide evidence please that the company spokespeople didn't have this info?
    (just joking)

    :pac:


    Edit: Here's the scientically illiterate blogger on Democracy Now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llo5U6XNS60&feature=related


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Lab_Mouse wrote: »
    i heard it on boards first!!.A boardsie rang a friend ,got no reply and then googled,to his horror, where his friend lived!!!as you do when somebody doesnt answer the phone:pac:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056303590

    I take it that this is total bull? The text kind of suggests it's more propagandistic lying of the type the the 'honest' 'Christian values' American right spews forth almost continuously.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    Not so much as a media blackout here, more, Lies and cover-up...

    Link to CNN video http://enenews.com/they-lied-to-us-radiation-release-comparable-to-chernobyl-total-core-meltdown-in-all-3-reactors-worst-industrial-catastrophe-in-world-history-cnn-video
    ROMANS [CNN HOST]: Then Fukushima. The disaster that won’t go away. Nobody is paying attention. But is the nuclear meltdown more dangerous than ever? [...] Michio Kaku on the biggest industrial catastrophe in history. [...]
    KAKU: In the last two weeks, everything we knew about that accident has been turned upside down. We were told three partial melt downs, don’t worry about it. Now we know it was 100 percent core melt in all three reactors. Radiation minimal that was released. Now we know it was comparable to radiation at Chernobyl. [...]
    ROMANS: In your view, did they not know how bad it was or they knew and didn’t tell [...]
    KAKU: [...] We knew it was much more severe than they were saying, because radiation was coming out left and right. So in other words, they lied to us. [...]
    ROMANS: [...] within hours not even a day, there were already statements from the company and International Atomic Energy Association saying there had been safe shut down of all reactors. [...]
    KAKU: [...] in New York City, you can actually see it in the milk. You can actually see it has iodine, 131, actually spiked a little bit in our milk in New York City, but it is very small.
    ROMANS: Just even hearing that, though, even hearing that you can detect it, that there’s a catastrophe, worst industrial catastrophe in history, we can see it in milk in New York, that’s frightening. [...]
    KAKU: [...] Realize Chernobyl was one core’s worth radiation causing a $200 billion accident and it is still on- going. Here we have 20 cores worth of radiation. Three totally melted, one damaged and the [rest in] spent fuel pumps, 20 cores worth of highly radioactive materials. [...]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 461 ✭✭Talk E


    Few links I received from a friend on the Fort Calhoun nuclear plant coverup.:)



    NO FLY-ZONE OVER FORT CALHOUN NUCLEAR POWER PLANT

    http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_1_6523.html




    Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant (Omaha, NE) Suffers a Major Accident, News Blackout ordered
    It definitely is a fact our Government is doing everything in their power to destroy the Country from top to bottom, forwards and backwards. This is awful news and not a peep about this in the state run news media anywhere. This is Treason at the Highest Level.
    The Nation Newspaper Sunday, June 19, 2011
    US orders news blackout over crippled Nebraska Nuclear Plant: report Submitted 1 day 9 hrs ago.

    A shocking report prepared by Russia’s Federal Atomic Energy Agency (FAAE) on information provided to them by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) states that the Obama regime has ordered a “total and complete” news blackout relating to any information regarding the near catastrophic meltdown of the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant located in Nebraska.

    According to this report, the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Plant suffered a “catastrophic loss of cooling” to one of its idle spent fuel rod pools on 7 June after this plant was deluged with water caused by the historic flooding of the Missouri River which resulted in a fire causing the Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) to issue a “no-fly ban” over the area.

    Located about 20 minutes outside downtown Omaha, the largest city in Nebraska, the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Plant is owned by Omaha Public Power District (OPPD) who on their website denies their plant is at a “Level 4” emergency by stating: “This terminology is not accurate, and is not how emergencies at nuclear power plants are classified.”

    Russian atomic scientists in this FAAE report, however, say that this OPPD statement is an “outright falsehood” as all nuclear plants in the world operate under the guidelines of the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES) which clearly states the “events” occurring at the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant do, indeed, put it in the “Level 4” emergency category of an “accident with local consequences” thus making this one of the worst nuclear accidents in US history.

    Though this report confirms independent readings in the United States of “negligible release of nuclear gasses” related to this accident it warns that by the Obama regimes censoring of this event for “political purposes” it risks a “serious blowback” from the American public should they gain knowledge of this being hidden from them.

    http://www.dailypaul.com/168252/fort-calhoun-nuclear-power-plant-omaha-ne-suffers-a-major-accident-news-blackout-ordered
    http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/event-status/event/2011/20110608en.html#en46932
    the fire brigade came through all that floodwater and didn't find a fire......yeah right, !!!!




    Smoke triggers nuclear plant alarm (Bullsh!t Story)
    Smoke in an electrical cabinet triggered an alert Tuesday at the Fort Calhoun nuclear power plant north of Omaha.
    No flames were observed and there was no damage to the plant’s nuclear reactor.

    The plant shut down April 9 for refueling and has not been restarted because of Missouri River flooding.
    David Bannister, the plant’s chief nuclear officer, said the smoke was caused by an overheated electrical breaker in a secondary building away from the reactor.

    A fire alarm sounded at 9:30 a.m. and non-essential workers were evacuated from the building.

    Following a safety review and a check of air quality, the alert was terminated at 1:15 p.m. and the evacuated workers were allowed to return. The incident is under investigation.

    The Fort Calhoun plant had not gone on alert since July 1992, when electrical problems and a valve failure led to a spill of 20,000 gallons of reactor coolant water into the containment building basement.

    http://www.omaha.com/article/20110607/NEWS01/110609814/0#smoke-triggers-nuclear-plant-alarm
    More Bullsh!t - Wall Street Journal
    WASHINGTON—A nuclear power plant north of Omaha, Neb., on Tuesday briefly lost the ability to cool a pool of used nuclear fuel after a fire at the site, the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission said.
    The NRC said the plant recovered cooling ability without activating backup systems and "temperatures in the pool remained at safe levels." The public was not in danger because the plant has been shut down since early April for a refueling outage, the agency said.
    Spent fuel pools in the U.S. have received increased scrutiny after a recent crisis in Japan involving potentially overheated nuclear fuel and the release of dangerous radiation.
    The agency declared an alert, the second of four emergency classes, at 9:40 a.m., 10 minutes after "an indication of fire" in a building at the plant. The NRC didn't disclose the cause of the fire. Automatic fire control systems activated and the fire was out by 10:20 a.m., the agency said. The plant is operated by the Omaha Public Power District.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304778304576374011963022284.html
    Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant Flooded in Nebraska …why isn’t this news & why did FAA declare no fly zone around plant??



    4df8ad3fac74f.image.jpg
    The Federal Aviation Administration issued a temporary flight restriction over the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Power Plant until further notice due to “Hazards”. This would normally be a precautionary measure after an electrical fire disabled cooling for the spent fuel rod pool as outlined below. The question is why is this still in effect?

    http://randysright.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/fort-calhoun-nuclear-power-plant-flooded-in-nebraska-why-isnt-this-news-why-did-faa-declare-no-fly-zone-around-plant/
    Sand Bags and Nuclear Power Plants Don’t Mix

    The levee breach today near Hamburg, Iowa is only the beginning of the story. What do you need to know concerning the flooding of the Missouri River?
    The Fort Calhoun nuclear power plant sustained a fire last week and is now under emergency status “due to imminent flooding from the Missouri River”. On June 7, an electrical fire at the plant resulted in the plant’s evacuation and the NRC has confirmed a loss of cooling for the reactor’s spent fuel pool as a result. The following account outlines this nuclear plant surrounded by sandbags and the hazards facing it. http://ncrenegade.com/editorial/sand-bags-and-nuclear-power-plants-dont-mix/
    Something else I found interesting.

    Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner at the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Plant?

    The dry-storage bunker is half-submerged OUTSIDE the AquaDam condom. It's the smaller brown building adjacent to the white tank at the right of this picture. Click image to enlarge. OPDD Photo.

    Earlier this month, workers at the Fort Calhoun Nuclear Plant surrounded the reactor and other key parts of the facility with a massive water berm called an “AquaDam”.

    Fort Calhoun had a foot-deep pool next to the reactor for spent fuel rods. The pool was so full in 2009 that they were sealing the fuel rods up in dry casks and sticking them in an on-site ‘mausoleum’.

    This, of course, is why there is a no-fly zone around the plant — someone might realize that wherever the fuel casks and underground fuel pools are, they are NOT inside the condom.

    Hat tip and a bow to Arthur Hu for finding the dry-storage bunker, half-submerged OUTSIDE the condom. It’s the smaller brown building adjacent to the white tank.

    No one really knows what their condition is – or even if the spent fuel is still on-site. No one in the major media is asking the question, and the operators aren’t saying.


    So who made the dry storage cask containers at Fort Calhoun?


    That would be Transnuclear, Inc.


    And who owns Transnuclear? Areva.


    And what else is Aveva doing?
    Selling water purification tanks and systems to TEPCO for Fukushima.


    What else does Areva do? Anything it wants, since it’s a giant multinational behemoth.

    http://hawaiinewsdaily.com/2011/06/guess-whos-coming-to-dinner-at-the-fort-calhoun-nuclear-plant/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Re. Areva - It kind of makes sense that the same company has more than one client in the nuclear industry. It wouldn't be surprising if it was the only company, or one of a couple, that provide these products to the whole industry - it's pretty specialised stuff I'd guess.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    You don't hear this being shouted from the rooftops do you?....

    Nuclear plant rules eased



    By JEFF DONN | The Associated Press
    Published: June 20, 2011


    Federal regulators have been working closely with the nuclear power industry to keep the nation's aging reactors operating within safety standards by repeatedly weakening those standards, or simply failing to enforce them, an investigation by The Associated Press has found.
    Time after time, officials at the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission have decided that original regulations were too strict, arguing that safety margins could be eased without peril, according to records and interviews.
    The result? Rising fears the accommodations by the NRC are significantly undermining safety — and inching reactors closer to an accident that could harm the public and jeopardize the future of nuclear power in the United States.
    Failed cables. Busted seals. Broken nozzles, clogged screens, cracked concrete, dented containers, corroded metals, rusty underground pipes — all of these and thousands of other problems tied to aging were uncovered in the yearlong investigation. All of them could escalate dangers in the event of an accident.
    Yet despite the many problems linked to aging, not a single official body in government or industry has studied the overall frequency and potential impact on safety of such breakdowns in recent years, even as the NRC has extended the licenses of dozens of reactors.
    Industry and government officials defend their actions and insist that no chances are being taken.
    But records show a recurring pattern: Reactor parts or systems fall out of compliance with the rules. Studies are conducted by the industry and government, and all agree that existing standards are "unnecessarily conservative."
    Regulations are loosened, and the reactors are back in compliance.
    The continuing crisis at the stricken, decades-old Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear facility in Japan has focused attention on the safety of plants elsewhere in the world; it prompted the NRC to look at U.S. reactors, and a report is due in July.
    But the factor of aging goes far beyond the issues posed by the disaster at Fukushima.
    Commercial nuclear reactors in the United States were designed and licensed for 40 years. When the first ones were being built in the 1960s and 1970s, it was expected that they would be replaced with improved models long before those licenses expired.
    But that never happened. The 1979 accident at Three Mile Island, massive cost overruns, crushing debt and high interest rates ended new construction proposals for several decades.
    Instead, 66 of the 104 operating units have been relicensed for 20 more years, mostly with scant public attention. Renewal applications are under review for 16 other reactors.
    By the standards in place when they were built, these reactors are old and getting older. As of today, 82 reactors are more than 25 years old.
    Last year, the NRC weakened the safety margin for acceptable radiation damage to reactor vessels — for a second time. The standard is based on a measurement known as a reactor vessel's "reference temperature," which predicts when it will become dangerously brittle and vulnerable to failure. Over the years, many plants have violated or come close to violating the standard.
    As a result, the minimum standard was relaxed first by raising the reference temperature 50 percent, and then 78 percent above the original — even though a broken vessel could spill its radioactive contents into the environment.
    "We've seen the pattern," said nuclear safety scientist Dana Powers, who works for Sandia National Laboratories and also sits on an NRC advisory committee. "They're … trying to get more and more out of these plants."
    * * * * *The AP collected and analyzed government and industry documents, including some never-before released. Tens of thousands of pages of government and industry studies were examined, along with test results, inspection reports and regulatory policy statements filed over four decades. Interviews were conducted with scores of managers, regulators, engineers, scientists, whistleblowers, activists, and residents near the reactors, located at 65 sites, mostly in the East and Midwest.
    AP reporting teams also toured some of the oldest reactors.
    Several nuclear engineers and former regulators used nearly identical terminology to describe how industry and government research has frequently justified loosening safety standards to keep aging reactors within operating rules. They call the approach "sharpening the pencil" or "pencil engineering" — the fudging of calculations and assumptions to yield answers that enable plants with deteriorating conditions to remain in compliance.
    "Many utilities are doing that sort of thing," said engineer Richard T. Lahey Jr., who used to design nuclear safety systems for General Electric Co., which makes boiling water reactors. "I think we need nuclear power, but we can't compromise on safety. I think the vulnerability is on these older plants."
    Added Paul Blanch, an engineer who left the industry over safety issues but later returned to work on solving them: "It's a philosophical position that (federal regulators) take that's driven by the industry and by the economics: What do we need to do to let those plants continue to operate? They somehow sharpen their pencil to either modify their interpretation of the regulations, or they modify their assumptions in the risk assessment."
    * * * * *Industry and government officials say that aging is well under control. "I see an effort on the part of this agency to always make sure that we're doing the right things for safety. I'm not sure that I see a pattern of staff simply doing things because there's an interest to reduce requirements — that's certainly not the case," NRC Chairman Gregory Jaczko said.
    Neil Wilmshurst, director of plant technology for the industry's Electric Power Research Institute, acknowledged that the industry and NRC often collaborate on research that supports rule changes. But he maintained that there's "no kind of misplaced alliance … to get the right answer."
    Yet agency staff, plant operators, and consultants paint a different picture in little-known reports, where evidence of industry-wide problems is striking.
    The AP reviewed 226 preliminary notifications — alerts on emerging safety problems — issued by the NRC since 2005. Wear and tear in the form of clogged lines, cracked parts, leaky seals, rust and other deterioration contributed to at least 26 alerts over the past six years. Other notifications lack detail, but aging also was a probable factor in 113 additional alerts. That would constitute as much as 62 percent in all.
    Confronted with worn parts needing maintenance, the industry repeatedly requested — and regulators often allowed — inspections and repairs to be delayed for months until scheduled refueling outages. Again and again, problems worsened before being fixed. A 2008 NRC report blamed 70 percent of potentially serious safety problems on "degraded conditions." Some involve human factors, but many stem from equipment wear such as cracked nozzles, loose paint, electrical problems or offline cooling parts.
    In the Tampa Bay area, Progress Energy officials may decide within weeks whether to permanently shut down the Crystal River 3 nuclear plant in Citrus County — the only one on Florida's west coast — built in the 1970s. As of the end of 2010, the company spent $150 million to fix problems that sidelined the plant since September 2009, when inspectors found "delamination" — slightly different than cracking — in the concrete building surrounding the reactor. The company thought it fixed the separation in the concrete but discovered a second area of separation this winter.


    http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2011/jun/20/MENEWSO1-nuclear-plant-rules-eased-ar-238576/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Remove safety regulations for oil drilling and allow cowboys like Halliburton to build well-heads. What do you get? Worst environment disaster in US history.

    Remove fiscal regulations. What do you get? Worst financial disaster in history.

    Remove safety regulations on standard infrastructure. What do you get? Levees in New Orleans failing causing and entire city to flood. Bridges in Michigan just falling into rivers. Gas pipes in NYC just blowing up and sections of tunnel in Boston just falling onto motorists.

    Go ahead and relax safety regs for nuclear power plants. Place will be a radioactive slag heap in a couple of years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Remove safety regulations for oil drilling and allow cowboys like Halliburton to build well-heads. What do you get? Worst environment disaster in US history.

    Remove fiscal regulations. What do you get? Worst financial disaster in history.

    Remove safety regulations on standard infrastructure. What do you get? Levees in New Orleans failing causing and entire city to flood. Bridges in Michigan just falling into rivers. Gas pipes in NYC just blowing up and sections of tunnel in Boston just falling onto motorists.

    Go ahead and relax safety regs for nuclear power plants. Place will be a radioactive slag heap in a couple of years.

    There's a balance though. Common sense would dictate that you start off with a very cautionary safety limit and as a you gain a better understanding of the risks involved you refine your safety limit to more efficient, cost effective safety standards. In the case of radiation, not just nuclear power but all radiation these allowed safety limits have just been made smaller and smaller for little to no reason. In fact, nowadays having such silly limits just adds to fearmongering and panic because almost everyone equates safety limits with hazards to health level. The two, are of course for obvious reasons, never equal.
    To put it another way, billions upon billions of various state funded grants go towards improving safety levels at a nuclear power plant. Given that these refinements will usually just save no more than 1,000 lives it is a really a big waste of money spurned on by an irrational fear. Think about how many people that same amount of money spent in the developing world, or even in the slumish areas of a 1st world country could save.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭ed2hands


    Malty_T wrote: »
    There's a balance though. Common sense would dictate that you start off with a very cautionary safety limit and as a you gain a better understanding of the risks involved you refine your safety limit to more efficient, cost effective safety standards. In the case of radiation, not just nuclear power but all radiation these allowed safety limits have just been made smaller and smaller for little to no reason. In fact, nowadays having such silly limits just adds to fearmongering and panic because almost everyone equates safety limits with hazards to health level. The two, are of course for obvious reasons, never equal.
    To put it another way, billions upon billions of various state funded grants go towards improving safety levels at a nuclear power plant. Given that these refinements will usually just save no more than 1,000 lives it is a really a big waste of money spurned on by an irrational fear. Think about how many people that same amount of money spent in the developing world, or even in the slumish areas of a 1st world country could save.


    Malty, the bit above highlighted seems fair enough to a point.
    (although speaking of common sense: common sense to me would dictate that now we know nuclear waste has a half-life of at least 100,000 years and they've already produced 250,000 tonnes of it in this piddly time, then nuclear power in it's current form should be scrapped. But that's by-the-bye)


    The rest of the post though i wouldn't go with at all.

    "Little or no reason"?
    How about the known and unknown effects of radiation?

    "Irrational fear"?
    What's irrational about being very concerned about safety at nuclear power installations? Whats wrong with getting the industry and govt to at least run it's plants to the most stringent guidelines until they've been at this longer than the blink of the proverbial eye? Is it too much to ask? I don't personally think so. Anyway, judging by Jeff Doons report, the standards in th US are literally a disaster waiting to happen. Shocking.


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