Companies calling up telling you to pay the bill

stevejr · 22-06-2011 12:38AM

Actually I think I can see both sides of the coin here as someone who has worked as a manager in the Retail/Services industry and as someone who is now a very stressed out consumer trying to keep my head above water financially.

Neither of the above roles is roles is very pleasant.

But as with everything in life a little bit of empathy goes a long way.

Tommorrow when you're on the phone and taking abuse in either direction, take a pause and walk a little walk in the other person's shoes. How does it feel?

Chances are that they're worrying about the exact same things as you once they switch off the bed-side lamp.

Bear that in mind the next time you call someone a prick or conversly put on the official drone/tone that you've a job to do.

We all have jobs to do whether working or unemployed. But as in all jobs, if you show people curtesy and respect, life will be a lot easier.

krudler · 22-06-2011 12:38AM

Dudess wrote: »

Not everyone is comfortable with money being taken out automatically - understandable. It might not be there. At least paying manually gives the customer a sense of control. I wouldn't blame anyone for avoiding DD, however as I said, it could benefit the customer in terms of discounts, as it's the cheapest payment method for the company.

DD can be a complete pain in the balls when it gets messed up, epecially as changing bank details in the middle of a month or just before a bill is due means it skips over and then people get overdue notices and blahhhhhh. Its easier to just ask to turn it off, pay with a credit card or whatever then put on the new details long before your next bill is due.

MungBean · 22-06-2011 12:38AM

Dudess wrote: »

Meh, they send out bills - not their fault if the customer doesn't bother opening them/doesn't change their address. This phoning up which the OP is talking about is actually doing people like the above type customer a favour - it's a form of hand-holding.

Companies dont so customers favours. They only like to look out for themselves. Dont try and turn this into companies looking out for customers when all it is is companies hounding people for money.

krudler · 22-06-2011 12:40AM

Daegerty wrote: »

Building railway lines, mining with a pickaxe, digging a tunnel through antarctica with a shovel. Shovelling coal into a steam train or some furnace, knocking down a 300m high chimney by yerself with only a crowbar.

All this is real work done by real men. In my day the only cushy job was programming a flawless operating system with only punch cards and a needle cause the computer time was too expensive for mere programmers to be arsing around with when the physicists had important research to do so the bomb could be delivered on time

Rabble rabble, rabble now get off my lawn! Kids these days. The world is going to hell in a handbasket, when horses were horses, and so on.

Bet railway builders didnt have AHT, middle management and sales targets to reach though :pac:

krudler · 22-06-2011 12:40AM

Skunkle wrote: »

Companies dont so customers favours. They only like to look out for themselves. Dont try and turn this into companies looking out for customers when all it is is companies hounding people for money.

sigh...

Daegerty · 22-06-2011 12:41AM

krudler wrote: »

Bet railway builders didnt have AHT, middle management and sales targets to reach though :pac:

Nah only their own wounds after being whipped to pull the maggots out

MungBean · 22-06-2011 12:41AM

krudler wrote: »

sigh...

Where have I seen that one before ? lol

Dudess · 22-06-2011 12:42AM

Skunkle wrote: »

Companies dont so customers favours. They only like to look out for themselves. Dont try and turn this into companies looking out for customers when all it is is companies hounding people for money.

... which they owe. It is a favour - not a direct one, sure, but it's actually of benefit to people who are serial bill ignorers (not talking about letting the odd bill slip under the radar and paid late). I can understand it annoying people who pay regularly and have a good payment history though.

MungBean · 22-06-2011 12:49AM

Dudess wrote: »

... which they owe. It is a favour - not a direct one, sure, but it's actually of benefit to people who are serial bill ignorers (not talking about letting the odd bill slip under the radar and paid late). I can understand it annoying people who pay regularly and have a good payment history though.

I think the OP's point was that companies are becoming increasingly tighter as regard bill payment. I'm sure with the amount of people in financial trouble they have every right to follow up on payments if they feel it will increase the regularity of the payments and reduce arrears. But one thing its not is a favour to forgetful customers. Its a message to people that they want their money.

krudler · 22-06-2011 12:59AM

Skunkle wrote: »

I think the OP's point was that companies are becoming increasingly tighter as regard bill payment. I'm sure with the amount of people in financial trouble they have every right to follow up on payments if they feel it will increase the regularity of the payments and reduce arrears. But one thing its not is a favour to forgetful customers. Its a message to people that they want their money.

Which they're entitled to, its a legally binding contract you take out to use a phone service and its right there in the t&cs you're agreeing to pay in a timely manner.

For example:

O2:

If you are a Bill Pay Customer
6.1 You must pay all Charges for O2 Services used by the SIM Card and Mobile Equipment we provide you through one of the payment options we make available. Payment must be made by the date the payment is due and VAT will also be charged if this applies. The amounts you owe us will be calculated in accordance with the Price Plan chosen by you and the Price Plan Rules which apply to your Price Plan.

Vodafone:

Vodafone may immediately, without notice, suspend the service wholly or partially for any valid reason, including without limitation, where you fail to pay Vodafone any sums due under this Contract or any other contract with Vodafone on the due date specified in any invoice;

stevejr · 22-06-2011 01:09AM

Dudess wrote: »

Not everyone is comfortable with money being taken out automatically - understandable. It might not be there. At least paying manually gives the customer a sense of control. I wouldn't blame anyone for avoiding DD, however as I said, it could benefit the customer in terms of discounts, as it's the cheapest payment method for the company.

Dudess, the only winning side of a direct debit is the payee. Think about it-good customer: no problems, troubled customer*; big stick(to beat them with).

Think about why these companies push the DD agenda so forcefully. Research it, don't be blinded by whatever company's mantra you work or have previously worked for.

Society's prosperity (be it Ireland or wherever) is an unintended byproduct of business, not it's goal.

Of course the above could be called an overstatement. Fair enough but hopefully a byproduct of that overstatement will be your understanding of service-focused businesses' DD agenda.

*lots of troubled customers these days

MungBean · 22-06-2011 01:13AM

krudler wrote: »

Which they're entitled to, its a legally binding contract you take out to use a phone service and its right there in the t&cs you're agreeing to pay in a timely manner.

For example:

O2:

Vodafone:

Absolutely, I even said they have every right to in the post you quoted (if you'd care to read it). I just made the point that its not a favour to the customer. Its part of the companies plan to keep payments regular for the benefit of the company.

Daegerty · 22-06-2011 01:21AM

All contracts from mobile phone companies basically sum up to two clauses.

1. We may or may not provide you with any sort of service. If we decide not to offer you a service we owe you nothing. Depending on market competition we may choose, if economically viable for us to provide you with a poor quality service or no service at all.

2. You agree to pay us the full amount of any bill we send you or not before the date stated on such a bill whether or not the amount accurately reflects services provided to you or is merely made up.

The rest is just filler to pull the wool over your eyes so you won't bother reading it. The contract is written by the mobile phone company's lawyers not some independent crowd. Of course it's going to be one-sided

krudler · 22-06-2011 01:22AM

Skunkle wrote: »

Absolutely, I even said they have every right to in the post you quoted (if you'd care to read it). I just made the point that its not a favour to the customer. Its part of the companies plan to keep payments regular for the benefit of the company.

well yeah, cos if the company didnt make money it wouldnt be able to pay its staff, or run the network, or pay engineers, or the marketing dept, or the bills for the call centre or the shops or sales agents or resellers or building rent or the hardline phones in those buildings and the hundreds of other expenses involved in running a major business. do you know how much it costs to take a call from a customer when they ring customer care? as in how much the network pays to take a customers call? you'd be surprised.

I really wish they'd bring in what some American companies did and charge people a fiver every time they ring in unnecessarily, the amount of baffling calls you take per day is unreal, it just drives up the queue times and makes life more difficult for agents to answer calls from customers who have genuine issues and queries. I regularly get asked what time it is, people who have waited in a queue on hold for ten mins to ask that, wtf like.

Daegerty · 22-06-2011 01:25AM

krudler wrote: »

I really wish they'd bring in what some American companies did and charge people a fiver every time they ring in unnecessarily, the amount of baffling calls you take per day is unreal, it just drives up the queue times and makes life more difficult for agents to answer calls from customers who have genuine issues and queries. I regularly get asked what time it is, people who have waited in a queue on hold for ten mins to ask that, wtf like.

Are they indians? could be irish mobile phones connected through some VoiP system to an Indian call centre that's being hired by the competition to do a sort of real life Denial of Service attack

MungBean · 22-06-2011 01:32AM

krudler wrote: »

well yeah, cos if the company didnt make money it wouldnt be able to pay its staff, or run the network, or pay engineers, or the marketing dept, or the bills for the call centre or the shops or sales agents or resellers or building rent or the hardline phones in those buildings and the hundreds of other expenses involved in running a major business. do you know how much it costs to take a call from a customer when they ring customer care? as in how much the network pays to take a customers call? you'd be surprised.

I really wish they'd bring in what some American companies did and charge people a fiver every time they ring in unnecessarily, the amount of baffling calls you take per day is unreal, it just drives up the queue times and makes life more difficult for agents to answer calls from customers who have genuine issues and queries. I regularly get asked what time it is, people who have waited in a queue on hold for ten mins to ask that, wtf like.

Yeah yeah customers are idiots I heard all that before. Were not talking about CS vs Customer here we are talking about company policy.

krudler · 22-06-2011 01:32AM

Daegerty wrote: »

Are they indians? could be irish mobile phones connected through some VoiP system to an Indian call centre that's being hired by the competition to do a sort of real life Denial of Service attack

nope, just regular stupid people. honestly I could (and should) write a book at this stage about dealing with customers and their insane questions.
We have the regular freaks as well like the heavy breathers who keep ringing until they get someone young and female sounding (regular occurance) the people who ring back over and over again to be told the same answer to the same question by different agents.
The people of a particular ethnic group who seem hellbent on stealing each others phone numbers constantly and trying to get numbers that dont belong to them put on blank sims to sell them.
etc.
etc.
etc.

I really wish I could sit people down beside me for just a day and see the mind boggling stupidity I have to deal with from people every day. eg:
I once had a woman ask me if I could charge her phone up over the phone. By charge up I dont mean with topup credit or anything, I mean literally charge it up. with electricity. over the phone.

Ghandee · 22-06-2011 07:41AM

krudler wrote: »

nope, just regular stupid people. honestly I could (and should) write a book at this stage about dealing with customers and their insane questions.
We have the regular freaks as well like the heavy breathers who keep ringing until they get someone young and female sounding (regular occurance) the people who ring back over and over again to be told the same answer to the same question by different agents.
The people of a particular ethnic group who seem hellbent on stealing each others phone numbers constantly and trying to get numbers that dont belong to them put on blank sims to sell them.
etc.
etc.
etc.

I really wish I could sit people down beside me for just a day and see the mind boggling stupidity I have to deal with from people every day. eg:
I once had a woman ask me if I could charge her phone up over the phone. By charge up I dont mean with topup credit or anything, I mean literally charge it up. with electricity. over the phone.

No way?

I've just laughed so hard at this, a little bit of wee leaked out!:D:D

krudler · 22-06-2011 10:16AM

Ghandee wrote: »

No way?

I've just laughed so hard at this, a little bit of wee leaked out!:D:D

Way. Really thats the tip of the iceberg, see the Cries of Retail thread in ranting and raving for more

IvyTheTerrible · 22-06-2011 10:31AM

I don't get what's so difficult to understand about paying for services received?

DJCR · 22-06-2011 10:37AM

From my own persnal experience Ulster Bank have been absolute **** in this regard.

I switched jobs where by I stopped being paid on fridays and got switched to being paid on the alst working day of every month.

Naturally, I forgot to change the days which the bank was supposed to take the cash out of the account so I was often left paying a fine "charges" and receiving really ****ty letters to my parents address.. so I didn't cop it for a few months.

By the time I copped it, I had paid about €120 in charges and had been treatened with a summons. Also they are mad for calling you these days as well.

Its been fixed now and I have online banking "21st" century technology but the amount of hassel for €80 (pm) is mad !!!!

wild_cat · 22-06-2011 10:48AM

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

And the company has no responsibility? What's the point in allowing people run up bills without receiving payment? How long does it take for somebody to run up € 800 call charges? The average monthly spend is < € 40?

Reminds me of the banks paying bonuses for dud sales? More of the same?

The killer blow is that paying customers end up paying more and when there's a problem with service, must have to contact moronic CS!!

BAD CREDIT MANAGEMENT = BAD DEBTS => GO PHFLUCK A DUCK.

What do you do?

Daegerty · 22-06-2011 11:09AM

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I don't get what's so difficult to understand about paying for services received?

Tis about how long they give you to pay for them.

The credit they give you and for how long is part of their service. Before you'd easily get 75 days to pay, this made things easier for a lot of people. Not because they are broke or not wanting to pay but if they had an expensive month they could put it off till the next or the one after.

It was a facility people got used to but now you're lucky to get 30 days out of them because they think people are going to run for it or they are stuck for money themselves.

jme2010 · 22-06-2011 11:14AM

I got a phone call yesterday:

"ESB Electric Ireland here. Just to let you know your last bill for x euro has been paid. Thank You"

Wierd!

highgiant1985 · 22-06-2011 11:32AM

Daegerty wrote: »

Tis about how long they give you to pay for them.

The credit they give you and for how long is part of their service. Before you'd easily get 75 days to pay, this made things easier for a lot of people. Not because they are broke or not wanting to pay but if they had an expensive month they could put it off till the next or the one after.

It was a facility people got used to but now you're lucky to get 30 days out of them because they think people are going to run for it or they are stuck for money themselves.

to be fair if that is someones biggest compliant about a company then the company is doing well.

Daegerty · 22-06-2011 11:33AM

highgiant1985 wrote: »

to be fair if that is someones biggest compliant about a company then the company is doing well.

Except its rarely the biggest. Just another one for an already long list

fastrac · 22-06-2011 11:55AM

I always insist they answer my security question and refuse to continue with the call until they agree. Thats if I know the bills paid.

wild_cat · 22-06-2011 11:58AM

I've worked in CS a few times over the years.

One company didn't bill anyone for months on end and shit eventually hit the fan big time.

It was an English company so we were under UK Laws and they have a law over there that states if you were sent a bill that had charges for usage dates on it over 6 months old you that you were not previously billed for but should have been you didn't have to pay for the usage that was older than 6 months.

Bord Gas didn't send us a bill for nearly two years and the landlord told us the management company was looking after it just after we moved in....

So we thought nothing more until someone turned up to cut us off.... Huge bill arrived in the door anyway and automated letters for months even though we had a payment plan set up with them.

It transpired that the bill hadn't been paid for 12 months before we moved in as well and all bills were being redirected to a Chinese student that had moved home.

After that I've sworn never to deal with them again.

How could a company let that happen?

wild_cat · 22-06-2011 12:02PM

fastrac wrote: »

I always insist they answer my security question and refuse to continue with the call until they agree. Thats if I know the bills paid.

That's actually a good way to see if the calls unscrupulous if a company is cold calling you about a bill. When I first read that I thought you did it when you rang CS was about to start reciting data protection law at you!!

krudler · 22-06-2011 12:13PM

Daegerty wrote: »

Tis about how long they give you to pay for them.

The credit they give you and for how long is part of their service. Before you'd easily get 75 days to pay, this made things easier for a lot of people. Not because they are broke or not wanting to pay but if they had an expensive month they could put it off till the next or the one after.

It was a facility people got used to but now you're lucky to get 30 days out of them because they think people are going to run for it or they are stuck for money themselves.

75 days is kinda taking the piss though, thats almost 3 months. earlier in the year my bank account got obliterated by my rent, car tax, insurance, credit card, phone bill, broadband, bins, gas and esb all coming out within a week of each other (all direct debit) no point whinging, just didnt go out a few weekends that month. I'd rather forego a few luxuries than have to spend months trying to pay back stuff.

Companies calling up telling you to pay the bill

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