Why do protestors in Ireland seem to choose strange things to protest about?

professore · 21-06-2011 03:07PM #1

This has been bugging me for a while. Why is it that there is (for example) such a concerted effort to protest against a relatively safe pipeline to bring gas ashore creating jobs and generally benefiting the country economically while there are many much more serious issues that to my mind are more worthy of protesting about. For example:

Bankers not even put on trial and some still in their jobs on huge salaries after bankrupting the country
Elderly care
The Catholic Church not paying the tiny contribution for abuse and continuing to cover it up and downplay it officially
Hospital waiting lists
Euro (particularly French) bullying on corporation tax
Endemic cronyism and law breaking among government and public officials

In my opinion any of these are far more worthy of protest. So why is it that they attract so few protesters?

The Aussie · 21-06-2011 03:16PM

because you dont have any interesting animals to jump in front of JCB's for.
The requirement for hysteria is, they have to be cute, photograph well, and able to make up some cute little story about and bring in enough donations so the wasters can avoid work for another summer...

NTMK · 21-06-2011 03:18PM

We're too passive for our own good

The King of Moo · 21-06-2011 03:23PM

The professional protesters in this country will often look for something that's shocking and eye-catching for maximum attention.
People will also be more likely to protest for something that's quite simple and easy to get across.
Therefore they'll avoid more complex political situations that can't be summed up in one placard.
In fairness there's a lot of earnest and genuine protesters out there who believe in what they're saying, but there's also the ones who just like being contrary and don't really care so much about people/animals in need.

professore · 21-06-2011 03:28PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

The professional protesters in this country will often look for something that's shocking and eye-catching for maximum attention.
People will also be more likely to protest for something that's quite simple and easy to get across.
Therefore they'll avoid more complex political situations that can't be summed up in one placard.

I agree with this to some extent, but most of the items I listed are quite simple to understand.

In fairness there's a lot of earnest and genuine protesters out there who believe in what they're saying, but there's also the ones who just like being contrary and don't really care so much about people/animals in need.

Agreed, but what is the split? In the Shell To Sea one I would suspect at least 90% of them are of the contrary/attention seeking type.

The King of Moo · 21-06-2011 03:35PM

professore wrote: »

I agree with this to some extent, but most of the items I listed are quite simple to understand.

Agreed, but what is the split? In the Shell To Sea one I would suspect at least 90% of them are of the contrary/attention seeking type.

I agree that the cases you listed are quite simple but I think they're just not sensational enough for these people to protest against. Shell to Sea has a huge foreign corporation already established as evil in prior cases, and the arrest of innocents and the threat of explosions! Though I'm not sure why people aren't protesting more about bankers, they do all the work to make themselves look like uncaring sociopathic snobs themselves (in some cases, of course

).

As for the split, I'm not sure but I think there's definitely a high percentage of contrarians. It's hard to know, as there's a grey area of well-meaning but naive and uninformed protesters too. It's hard to be objective as I live in Galway which has a very high percentage of such types

AnonoBoy · 21-06-2011 03:39PM

Crusties hate protesting about things that have any direct relevance to their lives.

That's why you used to hear them rabbit on about how evil George Bush was but yet when asked they'd admit to never having voted in Ireland. :rolleyes:

professore · 21-06-2011 03:39PM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I agree that the cases you listed are quite simple but I think they're just not sensational enough for these people to protest against. Shell to Sea has a huge foreign corporation already established as evil in prior cases, and the arrest of innocents and the threat of explosions! Though I'm not sure why people aren't protesting more about bankers, they do all the work to make themselves look like uncaring sociopathic snobs themselves (in some cases, of course ).

As for the split, I'm not sure but I think there's definitely a high percentage of contrarians. It's hard to know, as there's a grey area of well-meaning but naive and uninformed protesters too. It's hard to be objective as I live in Galway which has a very high percentage of such types

I suppose you have to be either retired, unemployed or independently wealthy to be involved in these things to any serious degree. Maybe for some people the fact of protesting, regardless of the merits gives their life meaning and makes them feel that they belong to a group?

pragmatic1 · 21-06-2011 04:14PM

Because we're going to make **** all money from it. Because its a natural resource that the state should use to benefit the people.

The King of Moo · 21-06-2011 04:15PM

professore wrote: »

I suppose you have to be either retired, unemployed or independently wealthy to be involved in these things to any serious degree. Maybe for some people the fact of protesting, regardless of the merits gives their life meaning and makes them feel that they belong to a group?

I think so, combined with needing an enemy to target. Nothing like a mutual enemy, even if it's been invented, to bring people together!

professore · 21-06-2011 04:25PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Because we're going to make **** all money from it. Because its a natural resource that the state should use to benefit the people.

This is just not true. The State doesn't have the expertise or money to look for oil or gas. This protest also sends the message to any other oil and gas businesses that Ireland is a pain in the a** to work in so why bother spending any money here prospecting for oil and gas when there are friendlier places.

We will at least have the jobs from processing the gas and the corporation taxes. If it turns out there is loads of oil and gas out there (doubtful - and don't come back with that Wikipedia estimates as these are blue sky estimates !!!!) we can introduce more taxes then.

markesmith · 21-06-2011 04:29PM

We love to get behind the Palestinians down here in Galway.

Protesting about issues that affect our own lives directly seems to be unfashionable. I truly don't know why that is.

Toby Take a Bow · 21-06-2011 04:37PM

professore wrote: »

This is just not true.

How good of a deal are we getting? Compared to other countries? I hear a lot of different estimates on this, some saying we're getting ripped off, some saying we should be grateful that anybody is developing anything over here.

I'd be interested to know what percentage (in tax) we can expect to make off the gas being sold.

The 'contrary' protestors I wouldn't think make up such a high percentage in actual terms. In terms of media coverage, maybe.

professore · 21-06-2011 04:47PM

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

How good of a deal are we getting? Compared to other countries? I hear a lot of different estimates on this, some saying we're getting ripped off, some saying we should be grateful that anybody is developing anything over here.

I'd be interested to know what percentage (in tax) we can expect to make off the gas being sold.

This has been done to death in another thread. The crux of the argument is you can't compare to the likes of Saudi Arabia where you just stick a pipe in the sand and the oil comes flying out to Ireland where you have to go several hundred metres under the sea and in all likeliehood get nothing. So it makes sense for Ireland to have attractive terms for exploration.

The 'contrary' protestors I wouldn't think make up such a high percentage in actual terms. In terms of media coverage, maybe.

I'm not so sure about that. Very few locals seem to be involved, although I am open to correction.

But this is straying off topic. I was more interested as to why the big protests here are about relatively minor issues when there are others affecting people here far more dramatically.

the_syco · 21-06-2011 04:49PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Because we're going to make **** all money from it. Because its a natural resource that the state should use to benefit the people.

Beacuse we know it's somewhere "out there", but have no idea where it is, and don't have a few million to drill a few places...

It's popular for people to protest an international company that may bring jobs into the country, but it's not popular to protest any home-grown tards.

professore · 21-06-2011 04:50PM

the_syco wrote: »

Beacuse we know it's somewhere "out there", but have no idea where it is, and don't have a few million to drill a few places...

It's popular for people to protest an international company that may bring jobs into the country, but it's not popular to protest any home-grown tards.

Not quite how I would have put it, but you're spot on.

moomooman · 21-06-2011 04:53PM

We dont protest about those things because those protests usually require leaders of some sort, in other countries the political parties will call for street protests and organise, here they wont do that, they are waiting for their turn in the big cars :rolleyes:

In a country with more politicians per capita than any other country in Europe (afaik) we are shockingly short of leadership.

professore · 21-06-2011 04:56PM

I suspect a large percentage of the protesters are of the "look at me I'm so important" brigade and have no real interest in what they are protesting about, and are actually more interested in being seen to be protesting against something, preferably something big and faceless and something to generate the maximum amount of media attention. If people need to be dragged by gardai so much the better.

All the evidence points to this being the most likely scenario. Not saying there is no merit in the Shell To Sea example, but there is very little. A better way to protest would be to stop using all petroleum derived products - but I bet very few of them walked in their all natural fibres to the protest. Again this is not meant to be a thread about Shell To Sea but it's the most high profile one I can think of.

mikemac · 21-06-2011 04:57PM

Galway Alliance About War

Protesting about the airshow which is superbly coordinated using Shannon and Galway with aircraft and crews from different countries
Attendances of over 100,000 bringing millions to Galway.

It's only the US forces and fashionable causes they have an issue with.
The Russian Navy were quite close to the west coast of Ireland two or three years ago, not a word from them.

professore · 21-06-2011 05:01PM

mikemac wrote: »

Galway Alliance About War

Protesting about the airshow which is superbly coordinated using Shannon and Galway with aircraft and crews from different countries
Attendances of over 100,000 bringing millions to Galway.

It's only the US forces and fashionable causes they have an issue with.
The Russian Navy were quite close to the west coast of Ireland two or three years ago, not a word from them.

When is that on? I'd love to see it!

mikemac · 21-06-2011 05:05PM

Got cancelled, same debate every year.
Salthill businesses were more then happy to take the extra custom but some were very slow or others just downright refused to contribute to the committee.

Not much help from the council either.

It's not been on since 2008, maybe they'll have it in 2012 as the Volvo Ocean Race will be back and they could have them in the same month maybe

The RNLI and coast guard will be there, the Irish defense forces too, they did parachute jumps last time in very windy weather. Landed perfectly :cool:

professore · 21-06-2011 05:12PM

mikemac wrote: »

Got cancelled, same debate every year.

Pathetic.

Toby Take a Bow · 21-06-2011 06:24PM

professore wrote: »

But this is straying off topic. I was more interested as to why the big protests here are about relatively minor issues when there are others affecting people here far more dramatically.

Fair enough. There were numerous (small) protests last year about the bank bailout and then one absolutely huge one there in November. Other issues like bankers and corruption would have been highlighted here. Fairly big issues, but I'd agree with you on some issues that people just won't protest about, no matter how much it's in their interest. I'd say some of them (like the care homes) might be due to their being so recently on the news (facts are still coming, so maybe people are waiting to see whether it's a nationwide issue). If there is one group that will protest it is the old age pensioners (and students).

NTMK · 21-06-2011 06:28PM

mikemac wrote: »

Galway Alliance About War

Protesting about the airshow which is superbly coordinated using Shannon and Galway with aircraft and crews from different countries
Attendances of over 100,000 bringing millions to Galway.

It's only the US forces and fashionable causes they have an issue with.
The Russian Navy were quite close to the west coast of Ireland two or three years ago, not a word from them.

What? protesting at the airshow?
the only problem i have with the airshow are the RAFs tornado jets doing mach 1 over my house.
sonic booms are very loud:(

Da Shins Kelly · 21-06-2011 06:35PM

Nobody cares. Simple as. It's pathetic, but it's true. There's no heart in this country any more.

malkmoose · 21-06-2011 07:02PM

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Nobody cares. Simple as. It's pathetic, but it's true. There's no heart in this country any more.

Barcelona had a quarter of a million demonstrators in Sundays international day of action
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/99876&comment_limit=0&condense_comments=false#comment281682

Ireland to protest against austerity - Dublin (19th June 2011)
Around 200 people assembled in Dublin to protest against the austerity measures imposed by the Irish government. Mostly Greek and Spanish.
http://www.demotix.com/news/730194/indignant-movement-back-ireland-dublin

Where's Wally? World Record Attempt in Dublin (18th June 2011)
http://www.demotix.com/news/729333/wheres-wally-world-record-attempt-dublin
3,567 people dressed-up as Wally from 'Where's Wally?' gathered in Dublin today to break the World Record of the largest gathering of people dressed as Wally, as part of the Street Performance World Championship. Dublin, Ireland.

Kind of embarrassing

Tubsandtiles · 21-06-2011 08:31PM

The majority of the protesters at the shell area in Mayo are actually English hippies

surprising I know

Cantona's Collars · 21-06-2011 08:43PM

Tubsandtiles wrote: »

The majority of the protesters at the shell area in Mayo are actually English hippies surprising I know

But true,when The Glen O' The Downs was being done,the majority of protesters there were English hippies.

voz es · 21-06-2011 09:22PM

professore wrote: »

This is just not true. The State doesn't have the expertise or money to look for oil or gas. This protest also sends the message to any other oil and gas businesses that Ireland is a pain in the a** to work in so why bother spending any money here prospecting for oil and gas when there are friendlier places.

We will at least have the jobs from processing the gas and the corporation taxes. If it turns out there is loads of oil and gas out there (doubtful - and don't come back with that Wikipedia estimates as these are blue sky estimates !!!!) we can introduce more taxes then.

It's simply not true to say that the Irish government could'nt have explored those areas for gas and or oil. The options could have included public private partnership agreements or short term rights to drill. These are just two options that would have raised the required capital. Simple corruption and short sightedness along with fear of trying something that England had not proved to be successfull is all that stopped this country from utilisating those resources.

pragmatic1 · 22-06-2011 03:20AM

professore wrote: »

This is just not true. The State doesn't have the expertise or money to look for oil or gas. This protest also sends the message to any other oil and gas businesses that Ireland is a pain in the a** to work in so why bother spending any money here prospecting for oil and gas when there are friendlier places.

We will at least have the jobs from processing the gas and the corporation taxes. If it turns out there is loads of oil and gas out there (doubtful - and don't come back with that Wikipedia estimates as these are blue sky estimates !!!!) we can introduce more taxes then.

There was a time when countries like Norway didnt have the expertise either. But they invested in their people and saw the bigger picturer. Now Norway has one of the highest standars of living in the world. We sell ourselves short in this country all the time. Daddy isnt going to help us all the time, whether daddy is the UK, the EU or the US. We can do things in this country as good as anyone else if not better.

pragmatic1 · 22-06-2011 03:26AM

the_syco wrote: »

Beacuse we know it's somewhere "out there", but have no idea where it is, and don't have a few million to drill a few places...

It's popular for people to protest an international company that may bring jobs into the country, but it's not popular to protest any home-grown tards.

Yep. Lets leave it to other people. Sure us thick paddies shouldnt get ideas above our stations.

Why do protestors in Ireland seem to choose strange things to protest about?

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