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Is David Norris Toast?

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Comments

  • #662
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    I'd say Pat Cox has it anyway. A perfect candidate.


  • #663
    lods
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 569 ✭✭✭lods


    newmug wrote: »
    I'd say Pat Cox has it anyway. A perfect candidate.

    WTF :eek:


  • #664
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    ^^^^^^ Why :eek:?


  • #665
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    AdMMM wrote: »
    For a party that wanted to reform politics, they are certainly not leading by example. David Norris is a high profile Independent politician who Fine Gael are effectively blocking from running in this election by leveraging a system that was designed to place as many obstacles in front of Independent candidates as possible. By no means do I support David Norris but I think he deserves a fair crack of the whip.

    I intended boycotting this absurd pantomime of an election as my own form of civil disobedience campaign so i am reasonably neutral as amongst all these Vanity Page 3 types of ' politicians'.
    Having said that, it isn't really fair to say that Norris isn't getting a fair crack of the whip. His difficulties are of his own making. He is a bit like Jackie Healy Rae in that once he sees a microphone or camera, he immediately thinks the country is waiting breathlessly for another gem of his wisdom. Look back over 2o years and I would say he is probably one of the high profiles individuals who has received the highest level of favourable coverage in the media. The interview with HJB is an example of that. From what I read in the papers, he and Lucy Burke were acquaintances if not actually friends. The problem with this interview seems to have started because he simply couldnt keep his mouth shut or at least from giving lectures about Ancient Greek and pedastry or whatever way anyone wants to describe it. Would he use Ancient Greek practices on say slavery to justify lowering the minimum wage ? Hardly but that tends to be the way with ' scholars' and historians who want to push thier agenda on whatever issue is being discussed. They try to use their academic experience to awe, or should I say overawe lesser mortals. Norris is an intelligent man and a politician. Frankly he made an idiot of himself. If Jackie Healy Rae had don the same we would all be laughing in the aisles as we have done so many times. Why is it ok for us to treat some rural TDs like village idiots when academics like Norris have to be out up high on a pedestal and revered and honoured ?. Unfortunately, too often people in minority groups treat equality as meaning for them that they should both be regarded as equal but also as special people who must not be criticised too much as that would constitute a breach of their particular ' special' human rights. It looks as if Norris and his supporters feel he belongs in this special category.
    Incidentally it is rather absurd, if not hypocritical, that an adult who continues to celebrate the works of a long dead author, and in such forensic detail, should feel it unfair that people should focus on an interview that is a mere ten years or so old ! As the americans say ' Go figure !'


  • #666
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    It seems not, 30% and way ahead of rivals:

    Norris leads presidential election poll | BreakingNews.ie

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • #667
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    lods wrote: »
    WTF :eek:


    IMHO Pat Cox is one of the biggest creeps that ever blighted the political scene in Ireland. He has one goal and one goal only: the best interests of Pat Cox, the ultimate cute hoor.

    Naturally, I always try to find some good in people, no matter how obnoxious they may be, and the best thing I can say about Cox is that he shafted his own party leader Des O'Malley, who deserved it. :)


  • #668
    Sean Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 858 ✭✭✭Sean Bateman


    I find Davis Norris objectionable and I shudder to think of him as our President.

    It has nothing to do with his homosexuality. It's his eccentricity and his comments in the interview with Helen Lucy Burke.

    The country's in a bad way at the moment and requires a steady hand - someone who will project the right image of Ireland. Someone exuding professionalism and a straight bat...someone who will be respected abroad. That sure as hell isn't David Norris or Michael D Higgins. It's probably Pat Cox or Mairead McGuinness.

    As for Norris's comments in that interview...they chill me to the bone. Here we've a guy who is unlikely to ever have children of his own basically shooting his mouth off about paedophilia and the age of consent. My issue is that I can almost see and hear him tittering and laughing about the subject. I fear that he got a perverse sense of enjoyment about referring to older teachers putting their hands in students' pockets. Referring to the ancient practice of recruitment and education of younger men by older homosexuals just reinforces people's fears about the sinister underlying objectives of men like Norris - To legitimise homosexuality and recruit younger people.

    I don't normally get agitated about things like this but in my humble view, anyone even contemplating voting for Norris needs their head examined and is an advert for dictatorship.


  • #669
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    Here we've a guy who is unlikely to ever have children of his own basically shooting his mouth off about paedophilia and the age of consent.

    The horror............
    I presume you will be all for gagging impotent men and barren women similarly.

    I've never been married or had children............ should I be allowed a view on divorce or abortion......... or a vote in referendums on these subjects?

    The mind boggles.
    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    an advert for dictatorship.

    The same sort of dictatorship where people must supress their personal views?
    I laughed.


  • #670
    Sean Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 858 ✭✭✭Sean Bateman


    mikom wrote: »
    The horror............
    I presume you will be all for gagging impotent men and barren women similarly.

    I've never been married or had children............ should I be allowed a view on divorce or abortion......... or a vote in referendums on these subjects?

    Yes, I do have an issue with someone who doesn't have children and probably never will shooting their mouth off about paedophilia and expressing a degree of tolerance towards the abuse of children.


  • #671
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    Yes, I do have an issue with someone who doesn't have children and probably never will shooting their mouth off about paedophilia and expressing a degree of tolerance towards the abuse of children.

    And if he had 2.4 children you would be ok with him supposedly discussing such issues?

    Will I get a cert to say I can now have a view on such issues once my first born is handed to me by the midwife?
    Perhaps it can be tied on to the umbilical cord.

    I think the "not having children" thing is a pink smokescreen used by some posters.


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  • #672
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    expressing a degree of tolerance towards the abuse of children.

    He didnt do that.

    You would know that if you read what he said and context in which he said it.


  • #673
    Batsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭Batsy


    Is the reason why nobody here seems to like David Norris is because he speaks with an English accent?

    I'd never heard of him until a few weeks ago when I read about him on here. But then he appeared on Sky News - I can't remember why - a few weeks ago and he sounded English.


  • #674
    spank_inferno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭spank_inferno


    What part of England do you think his accent comes from?

    He ennunciates well, His accent is rather 'Anglo-Irish' I would say.


  • #675
    joolsveer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭joolsveer


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    Yes, I do have an issue with someone who doesn't have children and probably never will shooting their mouth off about paedophilia and expressing a degree of tolerance towards the abuse of children.

    I am a heterosexual and have a child and I think that David Norris is a suitable candidate for the presidency. I have no problem with his sexuality. Judging by his reported comments he may be somewhat undiplomatic at worst.


  • #676
    Sean Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 858 ✭✭✭Sean Bateman


    spank_inferno wrote: »
    He didnt do that.

    You would know that if you read what he said and context in which he said it.

    Why do Norris apologists always try and muddy the waters?

    He's advocating the seduction of younger men by older men and appears to be titillated by talk of child abuse. I can almost her him tittering excitedly at the thought of it all.

    I'm shocked at the Sindo's claim that 30% of people want to see this person as President of Ireland. This is the same mentality that sent Dustin the turkey to the Eurovision.

    ANYONE who votes for David Norris should be ashamed of themselves. They don't deserve the vote.


  • #677
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Batsy wrote: »
    Is the reason why nobody here seems to like David Norris is because he speaks with an English accent?

    I'd never heard of him until a few weeks ago when I read about him on here. But then he appeared on Sky News - I can't remember why - a few weeks ago and he sounded English.

    No, there are many reasons why people in Ireland dislike David Norris, just as there are many reasons why many like him.

    Ireland is still in many ways a very backward country and there are still plenty of people who are homophobic and don't like Protestants, either.

    As for his accent, he can sound English if he wants to. Back in the early 1990s I was at a meeting of the Maynooth Gay and Lesbian Society where David Norris was the guest speaker.

    It was one of the most entertaining evenings that I have ever enjoyed. He has an awesome ability to imitate accents - quite on a par with the late great Dermot Morgan. That evening he did the "Dub" accent, the Dublin Corporation official, the Dort, the Corkman, the English Tory, the North Country miner, the Scot, his Egyptian boyfriend, his Israeli pal, the New Englander and the Texan, and many, many more ---

    If he wasn't the huge success he is as an academic, he could earn big money as a stand-up comedian any day.

    In fact, he almost did permanent harm to me, because I had had a few glasses of wine beforehand and needed to go to relieve my bladder, which was in danger of exploding, but I couldn't tear myself away from his performance ...

    The man is a genius, and also extremely likeable and charming.


  • #678
    Sean Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 858 ✭✭✭Sean Bateman


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    The man is a genius, and also extremely likeable and charming.

    Then invite him to your next dinner party.

    But please don't suggest him as a potential guardian of the Constitution.

    I'm truly shocked at the contents of that infamous interview. I'm also shocked at the naivety of those who are supporting this guy's candidacy.


  • #679
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    ANYONE who votes for David Norris should be ashamed of themselves. They don't deserve the vote.
    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    I don't normally get agitated about things like this but in my humble view, anyone even contemplating voting for Norris needs their head examined and is an advert for dictatorship.

    You're a confused puppy.


  • #680
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    No, there are many reasons why people in Ireland dislike David Norris, just as there are many reasons why many like him.

    Ireland is still in many ways a very backward country and there are still plenty of people who are homophobic and don't like Protestants, either.

    As for his accent, he can sound English if he wants to. Back in the early 1990s I was at a meeting of the Maynooth Gay and Lesbian Society where David Norris was the guest speaker.

    It was one of the most entertaining evenings that I have ever enjoyed. He has an awesome ability to imitate accents - quite on a par with the late great Dermot Morgan. That evening he did the "Dub" accent, the Dublin Corporation official, the Dort, the Corkman, the English Tory, the North Country miner, the Scot, his Egyptian boyfriend, his Israeli pal, the New Englander and the Texan, and many, many more ---

    If he wasn't the huge success he is as an academic, he could earn big money as a stand-up comedian any day.

    In fact, he almost did permanent harm to me, because I had had a few glasses of wine beforehand and needed to go to relieve my bladder, which was in danger of exploding, but I couldn't tear myself away from his performance ...

    The man is a genius, and also extremely likeable and charming.


    I take it from the comment in bold that if one dislikes David Norris, you are either homophobic or Protestant-hating?

    What if you simply believe that

    (1) His views on sexual relationships between 15-year old boys and 40-year old men need clarification and explanation;

    (2) His intellectualism is more than overstated; and

    (3) in light of the above, he is liable to put his foot in it sooner or later as President.


    BTW, I have met the man and spent some time in his company and also found him likeable and charming but there are more than a few likeable and charming people that I would never let near the Presidency.


  • #681
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,397 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I have issues with past TD's standing for an getting the role of president, so that would rule out Cox and Higgins for me. (I doubt I would have voted for either anyway on other grounds)
    As for Norris - the guy is a bit like a mildly loose cannon and I honestly don't want to see him as president. Nothing to do with his sexuality - he just doesnt fit the bill for me.
    Not sure who is going to be left for review after that.


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  • #682
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Breezer


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    I find Davis Norris objectionable and I shudder to think of him as our President.

    It has nothing to do with his homosexuality. It's his eccentricity and his comments in the interview with Helen Lucy Burke.

    The country's in a bad way at the moment and requires a steady hand - someone who will project the right image of Ireland. Someone exuding professionalism and a straight bat...someone who will be respected abroad. That sure as hell isn't David Norris or Michael D Higgins. It's probably Pat Cox or Mairead McGuinness.

    As for Norris's comments in that interview...they chill me to the bone. Here we've a guy who is unlikely to ever have children of his own basically shooting his mouth off about paedophilia and the age of consent. My issue is that I can almost see and hear him tittering and laughing about the subject. I fear that he got a perverse sense of enjoyment about referring to older teachers putting their hands in students' pockets. Referring to the ancient practice of recruitment and education of younger men by older homosexuals just reinforces people's fears about the sinister underlying objectives of men like Norris - To legitimise homosexuality and recruit younger people.

    I don't normally get agitated about things like this but in my humble view, anyone even contemplating voting for Norris needs their head examined and is an advert for dictatorship.

    You have no problem with Norris' homosexuality but believe it is sinister of him to try to 'legitimise' it? Incidentally, it's been legitimate in this country since 1993, largely on account of Norris' actions.

    What exactly is Norris, in your view, recruiting these young people to?
    ANYONE who votes for David Norris should be ashamed of themselves. They don't deserve the vote.
    So instead of democracy, should we just ask you who you want in charge in future?


  • #683
    Sean Bateman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 858 ✭✭✭Sean Bateman


    Breezer wrote: »
    You have no problem with Norris' homosexuality but believe it is sinister of him to try to 'legitimise' it? Incidentally, it's been legitimate in this country since 1993, largely on account of Norris' actions.

    What exactly is Norris, in your view, recruiting these young people to?

    By alluding to what used to happen in ancient Greece (the grooming of young boys by older homosexual men), he's revealing his own views on what should be allowed in Ireland. He's actually debasing homosexuality by allowing its opponents to link it to paedophilia.


  • #684
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Breezer


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    By alluding to what used to happen in ancient Greece (the grooming of young boys by older homosexual men), he's revealing his own views on what should be allowed in Ireland. He's actually debasing homosexuality by allowing its opponents to link it to paedophilia.
    So if, in the course of a discussion, I allude to say, communism, does that mean I am revealing my own views on what sort of system we should have in Ireland? Am I debasing having an organised political system by allowing anarchists to link it to dysfunctional systems?

    Again I ask you to explain your statements. What is Norris' "sinister" recruitment process? What is he recruiting these young people to do? And why is it "sinister" for him to see homosexuality as legitimate?


  • #685
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Breezer wrote: »
    So if, in the course of a discussion, I allude to say, communism, does that mean I am revealing my own views on what sort of system we should have in Ireland?

    Similar to the ban on childless people speaking about pedophilia, some people may say you should not even be talking about communism unless you are Chinese or Russian.


  • #686
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Godge wrote: »
    I take it from the comment in bold that if one dislikes David Norris, you are either homophobic or Protestant-hating?


    Perhaps you should read texts more carefully before jumping to such kneejerk conclusions. Read the sentence preceding the one you have boldfaced and you will see - I hope - that I say there are many reasons why people in Ireland dislike David Norris. Homophobia and the fact that he is a Protestant - and it is you, not I who use the word "hating" - are only two of them.


  • #687
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Sean Bateman wrote: »
    He's actually debasing homosexuality by allowing its opponents to link it to paedophilia.

    Ooh, debased homosexuality!

    I'm so voting for him now! :D


  • #688
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Perhaps you should read texts more carefully before jumping to such kneejerk conclusions. Read the sentence preceding the one you have boldfaced and you will see - I hope - that I say there are many reasons why people in Ireland dislike David Norris. Homophobia and the fact that he is a Protestant - and it is you, not I who use the word "hating" - are only two of them.

    In fairness on gay issues in general there are quite a few gay commentators, mainly young ones, who are quite aggressive in condemning people as homophobic if they do not accept in their entirety thier views on gay issues. The result is that in too many cases heterosexual people who have been very publicly supportive of gay issues tend to avoid voicing their opinions on any issue where it is not in agreement of the current gay view of the issue. In other words many people start to censor thier views or refrain from expressing them in case it ' upsets' the gay community or at least the very vocal sector of the gay community. Equality means you have to be willing to allow people to freely discuss issues. Of my gay acquaintences not one has raised the subject of the Norris controversy with me, though in general they will very willing bring up other gay issues. For my part I have acquiesced in this' conspiracy of silence'.


  • #689
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    anymore wrote: »
    In fairness on gay issues in general there are quite a few gay commentators, mainly young ones, who are quite aggressive in condemning people as homophobic if they do not accept in their entirety thier views on gay issues. The result is that in too many cases heterosexual people who have been very publicly supportive of gay issues tend to avoid voicing their opinions on any issue where it is not in agreement of the current gay view of the issue. In other words many people start to censor thier views or refrain from expressing them in case it ' upsets' the gay community or at least the very vocal sector of the gay community. Equality means you have to be willing to allow people to freely discuss issues. Of my gay acquaintences not one has raised the subject of the Norris controversy with me, though in general they will very willing bring up other gay issues. For my part I have acquiesced in this' conspiracy of silence'.


    Interesting. The gays I know are not at all aggressive or dogmatic. Maybe it's because I spend a lot of time in a couple of countries where people don't have as many hang-ups as I notice in Ireland when I am here.

    I agree with you about what equality means, but maybe it is still a relatively new concept in Ireland and a lot of people are still getting used to it and have not fully internalised it. I suppose there's also a sense of shame at the realisation of what a "whited sepulchre" our society was until fairly recently and, in some quarters, a deep denial, which manifests itself in all sorts of finger-pointing and whataboutery.

    I believe that either Michael D. or David Norris would make a good President. They have what it takes to do the job - representing, shaking hands, things like that. It's important to bear in mind that a President has no real power to change anything tangible. The rest of the world would not be interested in what either of them said in an interview with a low-grade hack for a minor magazine a decade ago.

    As regards the other poster who would like to give two fingers to the Church of Rome, I believe there are far better ways of doing that - and a lot more to that organisation. But the President is elected to represent all the people and I have no doubt at all that David Norris would extend every courtesy (far more than it deserves) to the church.


  • #690
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Interesting. The gays I know are not at all aggressive or dogmatic. Maybe it's because I spend a lot of time in a couple of countries where people don't have as many hang-ups as I notice in Ireland when I am here.

    I agree with you about what equality means, but maybe it is still a relatively new concept in Ireland and a lot of people are still getting used to it and have not fully internalised it. I suppose there's also a sense of shame at the realisation of what a "whited sepulchre" our society was until fairly recently and, in some quarters, a deep denial, which manifests itself in all sorts of finger-pointing and whataboutery.

    I believe that either Michael D. or David Norris would make a good President. They have what it takes to do the job - representing, shaking hands, things like that. It's important to bear in mind that a President has no real power to change anything tangible. The rest of the world would not be interested in what either of them said in an interview with a low-grade hack for a minor magazine a decade ago.

    As regards the other poster who would like to give two fingers to the Church of Rome, I believe there are far better ways of doing that - and a lot more to that organisation. But the President is elected to represent all the people and I have no doubt at all that David Norris would extend every courtesy (far more than it deserves) to the church.
    Thank you for comments. i look ago gave the Church of Rome the two figers but am only now realising how cowardly many of the non RC denominations have been on the subject of clerical child abuse, so for me it is a case of ' A plague on all their houses'. Also for me, on principle, I will henceforth not vote for poltical candidates from the public sector in anmy election for the reason they have economically insulated themselves from the economic recession whilst pushing us us private sector into the mire.


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  • #691
    irishh_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,700 ✭✭✭irishh_bob


    anymore wrote: »
    In fairness on gay issues in general there are quite a few gay commentators, mainly young ones, who are quite aggressive in condemning people as homophobic if they do not accept in their entirety thier views on gay issues. The result is that in too many cases heterosexual people who have been very publicly supportive of gay issues tend to avoid voicing their opinions on any issue where it is not in agreement of the current gay view of the issue. In other words many people start to censor thier views or refrain from expressing them in case it ' upsets' the gay community or at least the very vocal sector of the gay community. Equality means you have to be willing to allow people to freely discuss issues. Of my gay acquaintences not one has raised the subject of the Norris controversy with me, though in general they will very willing bring up other gay issues. For my part I have acquiesced in this' conspiracy of silence'.

    PC liberals are very overbearing when it comes to sacred cows , gays are one of those sacred cows and thus above reproach


This discussion has been closed.
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