Blasphemy?

Bob Cratchet · 18-06-2011 05:55PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Bob Cratchet, As I said already, I am mourning my mother and I asked you not to drag her into this discussion. Anyone who wasn't a scut would have left the matter at that and discuss issues rather than persons.

if you represent what Christianity is all about, then I'm doubly glad that I have nothing to do with it. Nor will I ever want to.:mad::mad:

Using you're very own argument (not mine), why would anyone respect your requests, beliefs, mourning or mother ?

Ellis Dee wrote: »

"offence is usually in the eye of the beholder, in the eyes of people who choose to take offence. That is your way of seeking to dominate others. What a cowardly cop-out it is to just scream "offence" every time someone says something that ridicules your belief

As for respect, I have always believed that it is something that has to be earned.

Guitar_Monkey · 18-06-2011 06:24PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I did not understand that this is a Christian forum. I thought it was a general forum and that this was a thread discussing blasphemy. Are you sure it is a Christian forum, and do you really expect everyone to just accept that particular ethos?

Look at the top left of your screen. I'm not lecturing anyone, i'm just asking you to show a little respect and be less offensive in the way you choose to get your point across. I have no problem with your beliefs at all or you engaging in this thread on the topic of blasphemy. As i previously said, i believe everybody has the right to believe in whatever they want without persecution or mockery from others...be it God, Allah, Satan, Odin, Fairies, Pixies...whatever....as long as they're not harming anyone. I believe it's called religious freedom.

Ellis Dee · 18-06-2011 06:33PM

Bob Cratchet wrote: »

Using you're very own argument (not mine), why would anyone respect your requests, beliefs, mourning or mother ?

There is something called decency. Ask someone to explain it to you.:mad:

Ellis Dee · 18-06-2011 06:38PM

Guitar_Monkey wrote: »

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I did not understand that this is a Christian forum. I thought it was a general forum and that this was a thread discussing blasphemy. Are you sure it is a Christian forum, and do you really expect everyone to just accept that particular ethos?

Look at the top left of your screen. I'm not lecturing anyone, i'm just asking you to show a little respect and be less offensive in the way you choose to get your point across. I have no problem with your beliefs at all or you engaging in this thread on the topic of blasphemy. As i previously said, i believe everybody has the right to believe in whatever they want without persecution or mockery from others...be it God, Allah, Satan, Odin, Fairies, Pixies...whatever....as long as they're not harming anyone. I believe it's called religious freedom.

Yes, you are lecturing, but that's your own problem.:rolleyes:

I, too, believe in religious freedom, but understand that as meaning that people are free to believe in whatever religion they want, or none. It seems you just understand freedom as being the freedom to agree with you.

Incidentally, do you know anything about blasphemy laws in other countries, and do you think you might like to outline some interesting examples of such legislation and engage in discussion of them rather than coming on as a rather bullying person who takes it upon himself to tell others how they should express themselves?

Guitar_Monkey · 18-06-2011 07:35PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Guitar_Monkey wrote: »

Yes, you are lecturing, but that's your own problem.:rolleyes:

Incidentally, do you know anything about blasphemy laws in other countries, and do you think you might like to outline some interesting examples of such legislation and engage in discussion of them rather than coming on as a rather bullying person who takes it upon himself to tell others how they should express themselves?

No...i'm not. I'm just asking you to be a bit more considerate in some of your comments. You asked me my age earlier....i'd be interested in your own, because you're behaving rather childishly.
As for your second point......."It seems you just understand freedom as being the freedom to agree with you."...absolute bull....i told you i had no problem with whatever people choose to believe in...or not, as the case may be. Some of my best friends are Athiests, and they're very capable of arguing their points without resorting to mockery.
I'm not really concerned with blasphemy laws. The thread isn't even about that. It's about wether a certain image is blasphemous to Christians. I don't really agree with blasphemy laws to be honest. As i said, it's pretty easy to avoid that stuff if you want. As a fan of extreme music, i've been exposed to all sorts....it dosn't really bother me. So i don't think stuff should be banned just because a certain group might find it offensive. It's only if it's in someone's without their consent that i think it's a bit of a problem.

By the way....i think we both need to step back a bit. I didn't mean to come across bullyish...if i did, i apologise. There is a bit of a trend of people trolling in this forum with the attitude of winding up and mocking the Christians and religious for a bit of a "laugh". All i meant was have a bit of consideration for the beliefs of others, seeing as this is a Christian forum.
Anyway....whatever.....i'm not out for a fight. I just want to enjoy my weekend. Take it easy.

Onesimus · 18-06-2011 08:06PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

There is something called decency. Ask someone to explain it to you.:mad:

*poking you with his finger and teasing you* Stop talking to your self, stop talking to yourself :pac:

Ellis Dee · 18-06-2011 08:17PM

Onesimus wrote: »

*poking you with his finger and teasing you* Stop talking to your self, stop talking to yourself :pac:

Ellis Dee · 18-06-2011 08:21PM

Guitar_Monkey wrote: »

Ellis Dee wrote: »

No...i'm not. I'm just asking you to be a bit more considerate in some of your comments. You asked me my age earlier....i'd be interested in your own, because you're behaving rather childishly.

Why do you half-apologise and then make snide comments like that? My age is none of your business, but I suppose I'm old enough to be your father; I'm old enough to be most people's.:rolleyes: Fortunately, I know I'm not yours. Now, enjoy your weekend, too.

Morbert · 18-06-2011 08:42PM

ISAW wrote: »

Yes. An atheistic government which wont protest them and institute a "There is no God and we will work against any who ask us to respect their religious beliefs" regime.

Every time that happened in history you could count the corpses. Hundreds of millions of them! That's a reason why.

I did not say atheistic. I said secular. Secular governments protect the right of people to practice their religion (within the confines of the law). "Atheistic governments" (by which you presumably mean the Godless, but still deeply religious regimes of Stalin and Mao) do not.

The Church is helping children worldwide. I don't see international atheism helping any of them . Their meetings seem to be more concerned with talk and doing down religions.

How is this related to the question of whether or not it should be illegal to offend religious sensibilities?

Ellis Dee · 18-06-2011 08:50PM

Morbert wrote: »

I did not say atheistic. I said secular. Secular governments protect the right of people to practice their religion (within the confines of the law). "Atheistic governments" (by which you presumably mean the Godless, but still deeply religious regimes of Stalin and Mao) do not.

How is this related to the question of whether or not it should be illegal to offend religious sensibilities?

Good points! Actually, I doubt whether there have been many genuinely atheistic governments at all in the history of the world. By that I mean governments that have really thought about the matter and come to the realisation that religion has a pernicious influence on people. Those governments that have cracked down on religion have always been totalitarian ones, which want to control everything and are unwilling to tolerate any organised groups that are not under their (the governments') control. It is not religion per se that has bothered them, but any hint of groups that might conceivably challenge or erode their power.

lmaopml · 18-06-2011 09:25PM

I don't think anybody thinks that it should be illegal. The same way as it's not illegal to view those who actually thrive on it as somewhat arrogant, obnoxious, and childish (none of these things are illegal ) - Neither is ignoring those dipictions as a childish kind of ruse...daily mail style.

Ellis Dee, I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my Dad just over a year ago and it's difficult to come to terms with any loss, especially that of a parent or child. I wish you the best..

Guitar_Monkey · 18-06-2011 09:56PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Guitar_Monkey wrote: »

Why do you half-apologise and then make snide comments like that? My age is none of your business, but I suppose I'm old enough to be your father; I'm old enough to be most people's.:rolleyes: Fortunately, I know I'm not yours. Now, enjoy your weekend, too.

Fair enough, your age is none of my business, just as mine is none of yours. Don't try and say i'm making snide comments when you've been acting like a tosser all day. Oh, and those smileys you keep using...with the raised eyes ? Really cool ! If you're old enough to be my father, then start acting like it. You're a classy individual....:rolleyes: (see what i did there ?)
Good luck to you sir !

Ellis Dee · 18-06-2011 10:00PM

lmaopml wrote: »

I don't think anybody thinks that it should be illegal. The same way as it's not illegal to view those who actually thrive on it as somewhat arrogant, obnoxious, and childish (none of these things are illegal ) - Neither is ignoring those dipictions as a childish kind of ruse...daily mail style.

Ellis Dee, I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my Dad just over a year ago and it's difficult to come to terms with any loss, especially that of a parent or child. I wish you the best..

Thank you, Imaopml. Very kind of you to say that. I know it takes time to get over a bereavement and what you say about the loss of a child reminds me of one of the few things that really scare me. Fortunately, that is one thing that I have been spared and my children are grown up and successful.

As the Vulcans say, I say to you: Live long and prosper.:)

lmaopml · 18-06-2011 10:02PM

Star Trek

Love it! You too...

Ellis Dee · 18-06-2011 10:02PM

Guitar_Monkey wrote: »

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Fair enough, your age is none of my business, just as mine is none of yours. Don't try and say i'm making snide comments when you've been acting like a tosser all day. Oh, and those smileys you keep using...with the raised eyes ? Really cool ! If you're old enough to be my father, then start acting like it. You're a classy individual....:rolleyes: (see what i did there ?)
Good luck to you sir !

Note to self: Ignore this eejit from now on!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

lmaopml · 18-06-2011 10:14PM

Ellis Dee, do you have a cauldron for that big spoon of yours? Oh sorry, it seems you do

a favourite.

I think I'll go off and look at some other threads now...lol....

Guitar_Monkey · 18-06-2011 11:02PM

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Note to self: Ignore this eejit from now on!:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Right back at ya !

philologos · 18-06-2011 11:06PM

Bob Cratchet · 18-06-2011 11:11PM

A little bit of moderation goes a long way

Ellis Dee · 19-06-2011 06:56AM

Guitar_Monkey wrote: »

Right back at ya !

Is this one of the smarter members of your family?:D:D:D ROFLMAO

PDN · 19-06-2011 07:39AM

Mod Warning

Can we stop the bickering please? Moderating this thread is like having to look after a group of 5-year olds. Posters should address the post, rather than attacking the poster.

Also, leave the moderating to the mods. Let them determine who is trolling and who isn't. Moderating issues are addressed by the Reported Post button, or via PM, not inthread.

Guitar_Monkey · 19-06-2011 09:52AM

Apologies to everyone for taking the thread off topic...and to you PDN, i'll leave it to you guys from now on. I'm not much of a poster anyway, i tend to lurk mostly

. Maybe i'll stick to that from now on.

Bob Cratchet · 19-06-2011 12:47PM

PDN wrote: »

Mod Warning

Can we stop the bickering please? Moderating this thread is like having to look after a group of 5-year olds. Posters should address the post, rather than attacking the poster.

Also, leave the moderating to the mods. Let them determine who is trolling and who isn't. Moderating issues are addressed by the Reported Post button, or via PM, not inthread.

Good man. Best to nip it in the bud early in future, then there would be no problems.
I always report trolling, but it can be a long time before anything can be done about it, and by that stage it gets way out of hand. I'm not blaming you guys, you can't be here all the time. BTW my surname is not misspelt as you referred to earlier, it's the correct Irish spelling as used in our family. I'd appreciate if you could respect that small point, at it is important to us. Thanks

19-06-2011 08:55PM

Lapin wrote: »

Anyone know where and when this art exhibition is taking place?

According to the UCC website, it's on in the O'Rahilly Building on Thursday, 23th June. However, ANF says it's on (additionally?) Friday, 24th June. ANF has the details of people to contact if you want to protest (phone and email) here.

I am so saddened by this, though not particularly surprised that such an exhibition is being shown.

Kyrie eleison!
Mother Mary, have pity on us!

Bob Cratchet · 19-06-2011 09:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

According to the UCC website, it's on in the O'Rahilly Building on Thursday, 23th June. However, ANF says it's on (additionally?) Friday, 24th June. ANF has the details of people to contact if you want to protest (phone and email) here.

I am so saddened by this, though not particularly surprised that such an exhibition is being shown.

Kyrie eleison!
Mother Mary, have pity on us!

They are not much of an artist if they have to go down that route for publicity and to get their pictures on display. What's the matter with UCC, can they attract no other artists ?

gimmebroadband · 19-06-2011 09:57PM

Bob Cratchet wrote: »

They are not much of an artist if they have to go down that route for publicity and to get their pictures on display. What's the matter with UCC, can they attract no other artists ?

None with any taste anyway!

mehfesto · 24-06-2011 02:24PM

Surely art is not only subjective, but multi-layered and heavily reliant on context. I mean a shark in formaldehyde in a museum is informative, but place it in a gallery and it is art and we are forced to look at in a different way. That's before we read or inspect what the artist was trying to say with what he or she presents to us.

A lot of people here seem to think that the Virgin Mary simply cannot be depicted in a way that does not fit their notions of what Mary 'is'. It could be argued that in this way, Christians are reacting not un-similarly (albeit less aggressively) to how some Muslims reacted to the depiction of Mohammed. It is not a case of 'you can't', but rather a case of 'you shouldn't'. It implies there is an ownership of Mary. Which is interesting.

Blasphemy is questionable in this instance for me. It harks back to this:

'This is not a pipe'. And it isn't. It's a 2 dimensional depiction of what we understand to be a pipe. Similarly, this is not Mary. It is one person's depiction of her. The artists depiction cannot harm or undermine what you believe Mary to be. You are not being told for definite, something that is grossly offensive. You are merely shown an image which you are asked bisect and mentally digest for yourself.

In all comes down to perspective, I suppose. But for me, something like this is quite tame. By the standards of 'Piss Christ' at least.

Morbert · 24-06-2011 03:43PM

Just so we're all on the right page, how many Catholics here think such art should be illegal?

gimmebroadband · 24-06-2011 05:56PM

Morbert wrote: »

Just so we're all on the right page, how many Catholics here think such art should be illegal?

What sort of a question is that???? God gave everyone FREE WILL to sin or not to sin, to blaspheme or not blaspheme! I'm sure Jesus wouldn't approve of His Mother being mocked!!!!

Morbert · 24-06-2011 06:04PM

gimmebroadband wrote: »

What sort of a question is that???? God gave everyone FREE WILL to sin or not to sin, to blaspheme or not blaspheme! I'm sure Jesus wouldn't approve of His Mother being mocked!!!!

Just making sure, as it is technically illegal in Ireland to blaspheme.

Blasphemy?

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