Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

flahavaj · 12-06-2011 10:08PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

I would love to know who came up with this ageing thing and Justin's teams. look at the last team he picked V Clare in Limerick
C Hennessey; Born 1977 age 31

S Kearney Born

K Moran Born 1987 Age 21

D Prendergast; Born 1981 Age 27

T Browne, Born 1973 Age 35

B Phelan, Born 1979 Age 29

J Kennedy; Born Age

M Walsh (capt), Born 1983 Age 25

D Bennett; Born 1976 Age 32

S Prendergast, Born 1980 Age 28

D Shanahan, Born 1977 Age 31

S Molumphy; Born 1984 Age 24

J Mullane, Born 1981 Age 27

G Hurney, Born 1981 Age 27

E McGrath. Born 1980 Age 28

OK, there was 3 or 4 fellows in their 30's that started, but most of the team was in their mid 20's the age most say you have to be to win All-Irelands. Of the ones that were 30 or more in Justin's team, two of them played today, one of whom is Tony Browne who is getting better and better by the games he plays.

Its not so much that Justin's team was ageing, its that he stuck with the same small panel that was the problem IMO. And in fairness there are guys in that team who were only starting due to injuries - if Ken, Kelly and Murphy had been fit they'd have started which would drive up the avarage age again.

Deise Tom · 12-06-2011 10:10PM

flahavaj wrote: »

The only consolation in moving Brick back is that we have a ready made replacement fir Brick in Kevin Moran who has been unbelieveable every time I've seen him in the role for De La Salle. It would be a huge risk though, I agree and you can't help but wish it had been tried during the league - the fact Davy was happy to do it mid-game shows he has obviously considered it before.

I do agree with you in general that there is way to much pessimism here. It is early doors - nobody ever won anything the the second week of June. Any team trying to bed in 5 championship debutants, as well as the relatively inexperienced Shanahan is going to take a while to settle down. The young forwards all made a good contribution. If you'd told me ten years ago three young forwards with barely any chempionship experience would walk into the team and contribute 13 points I'd have been ecstatic. They'll only get better - and remember we have the likes of Brian O' Halloran and Jake Dillon waiting to come in in the next couple of years as well. Not bad at all.

Cork gave six players their debut against Waterford in 1999. They went on to win the Munster and All-Ireland finals. If you are good enough you will settle in quickly.

KevIRL · 12-06-2011 10:11PM

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Well the team is out on the piss again tonight. One of these years they'll wait til the final to do that.

Next championship game isnt for a month. These guys are amateur and deserve to let the hair down and blow off some steam.

Great first post in the thread btw:rolleyes:

O Riain · 12-06-2011 10:14PM

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Well the team is out on the piss again tonight. One of these years they'll wait til the final to do that.

Theyre into a Munster final after a tough tough game. Lot of pressure going into first championship game and Munster final is a month away, with the effort these boys put in I dont think anyone can begrudge em letting lose a little.

suitcasepink · 12-06-2011 10:18PM

egpower wrote: »

I thought Tony Browne was under serious pressure today especially in the first half. I was watching him closely and I just thought he was using all his experience to deny Mulcahy posession rather than playing in the normal positive manner of his as if he was not confident / fit enough ? Anyone else have that view ?

Yea I thought I was the only one to think this.. He was defo caught a few times, he was able to use his intelligence and experience to stop problems a good few times but he was definitely caught for pace especially in the second half. I dont agree with the running joke "Hes getting better with age" but maybe today was just a blooper, as the games go on he could improve..

Deise Hurler · 12-06-2011 10:18PM

We were lucky to come out of Thurlus today with a win but this was always going to be a possible banana skin and going into a munster final having not played to our potential and being underdogs is a good position to be in.

Here's my two cents for what its worth.

Posters are saying that davy didnt make good decisions on the line but the moving of brick to full back worked out a treat, but then again brick could play anywhere and be brilliant. His dominance is a loss to the half back line but against a tipp forward line who will go for goals against us, i feel he will be needed in front of the goal for the next day.

Goalkeeper is another area I feel we need to make a change at. Clinton Hennessy for all his quality in open play is just not a shot stopper. Any half decent shot on the goal tends to result in a goal. Adrian Power is a much better keeper, i feel and with him in goals I don't think we wont be leaking the goals we are. I don't think this change will be made but if we are to concede less goals Clinton needs to learn to stand his ground when a forward is bearing down on goal, make himself big and stop making these ridiculous dives which never result in a save.

Another player I would like to see added to the starting team is Aidan Kearney, who is a class act and if fully fit is well capable of returning to the form of a few years ago. I would play him in what many consider his best position wing back. I would fear Jamie Nagle starting wing back the next day as he has got heaps of chances and is just not up to intercounty standard, even if he did ok when he came on today.

Our half forward line was cleaned out today in the aeriel battle with limerick, especially in the second half. This is something which needs to be worked on with in training over the next few weeks. I wouldn't make any changes in this line however as I feel we have the right players in the right positions here (unless kelly hits a rich vein of form of course). Instead we need to work of the quality of ball played into the forwards and of our puck outs.

Finally, it was great to get three goals today and I think having Shane Walsh in Full Forward (should have been left there for the whole match) and Brian O' Sullivan, who looks like a good goal threat, as well as Mullane in there has added a dimension to our game that we just haven't had in recent years. We could have had 5 goals today and with the right ball into these boys vs Tipp who knows.

Anyway my team for the next day would be:

1. Adrian Power
2. Darragh Fives
3. Brick Walsh
4. Noel Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Kevin Moran
7. Aidan Kearney
8. Ritchie Foley
9. Stephen Molumphy
10. Maurice Shanahan
11. Shane O' Sullivan
12. Pauric Mahony
13. Brian O' Sullivan
14. Shane Walsh
15. John Mullane

Cake Man · 12-06-2011 10:19PM

KevIRL wrote: »

Next championship game isnt for a month. These guys are amateur and deserve to let the hair down and blow off some steam.

Great first post in the thread btw:rolleyes:

Was just about to post something like this, the lads play an amateur sport and their free to go out and have a few pints. They're not robots who must go home and straight to bed after today. In fact I'd nearly say it would better that they go out for a few quiet ones and have a bit of craic with each other, team bonding and all that.

washman3 · 12-06-2011 10:23PM

That was some second half today,as a Limerick supporter im gutted for the players but fair play to waterford for digging deep and winning the battle,5 newcomers too,great to see.Nothing to fear in MF. Best of luck. as for next weeks semi,dont rule out Honan doing a "Kevin Downes" on the game.This chap is capable of running riot.Remember Tipp had nobody to match a limited Aisake last year.!!

P.S. where have all the Deise fans gone?

Deise Tom · 12-06-2011 10:24PM

flahavaj wrote: »

Its not so much that Justin's team was ageing, its that he stuck with the same small panel that was the problem IMO. And in fairness there are guys in that team who were only starting due to injuries - if Ken, Kelly and Murphy had been fit they'd have started which would drive up the avarage age again.

Again is that a bit of a mit. Have a look at Justin's first championship team in 2002 against Cork I think, and that which he selected against Clare in his last game. There is five players that were involved in the two games from the start.

Team in 2002

S Brenner
J Murray
T Feeney
B Flannery
P Queally
F Hartley
E Murphy
T Browne
D Bennett
E Kelly
A Moloney
P Flynn
J Mullane
S Prendergast
E McGrath

Team in 2008

C Hennessey;
S Kearney
K Moran
D Prendergast;
T Browne,
B Phelan,
J Kennedy;
M Walsh (capt),
D Bennett;
S Prendergast,
D Shanahan,
S Molumphy;
J Mullane,
G Hurney,

15. E McGrath

Professey Chin · 12-06-2011 10:26PM

4 of which are still there.....

Deise Tom · 12-06-2011 10:26PM

KevIRL wrote: »

Next championship game isnt for a month. These guys are amateur and deserve to let the hair down and blow off some steam.

Great first post in the thread btw:rolleyes:

If its true, does it not say that what was in Damien Tiernan's book was correct despite what some will say. Did i read some place in the past when Clare was it won their all-Ireland's the players gave it up while they were in the championship.

deisedude · 12-06-2011 10:26PM

KevIRL wrote: »

Also big plea to Waterford fans....Please turn out for the Munster final. Being vastly outnumbered by Limerick fans today was pretty embarassing considering not so long ago we regarded ourselves as amoung the best supported teams in the country.

Were we vastly outnumbered? Where i was sitting I couldnt even see a Limerick fan! There were more Limerick fans on the terrace undoubtedly. Have to remember Limerick fans havent had a team to cheer in over a year as the Limerick people didnt follow Justins junior B team last year so a good turnout with their renewed sense of optimism was surely expected

Cake Man · 12-06-2011 10:29PM

Goalkeeper is another area I feel we need to make a change at. Clinton Hennessy for all his quality in open play is just not a shot stopper. Any half decent shot on the goal tends to result in a goal

Looking at the highlights, I thought Clinton could have stopped the first LK goal, it skidded on the greasy surface but you would have expected him to save it. Bit disappointed with that one. But I very much doubt he'll be dropped now.

Deise Tom · 12-06-2011 10:30PM

Deise Hurler wrote: »

We were lucky to come out of Thurlus today with a win but this was always going to be a possible banana skin and going into a munster final having not played to our potential and being underdogs is a good position to be in.

Here's my two cents for what its worth.

Posters are saying that davy didnt make good decisions on the line but the moving of brick to full back worked out a treat, but then again brick could play anywhere and be brilliant. His dominance is a loss to the half back line but against a tipp forward line who will go for goals against us, i feel he will be needed in front of the goal for the next day.

Goalkeeper is another area I feel we need to make a change at. Clinton Hennessy for all his quality in open play is just not a shot stopper. Any half decent shot on the goal tends to result in a goal. Adrian Power is a much better keeper, i feel and with him in goals I don't think we wont be leaking the goals we are. I don't think this change will be made but if we are to concede less goals Clinton needs to learn to stand his ground when a forward is bearing down on goal, make himself big and stop making these ridiculous dives which never result in a save.

Another player I would like to see added to the starting team is Aidan Kearney, who is a class act and if fully fit is well capable of returning to the form of a few years ago. I would play him in what many consider his best position wing back. I would fear Jamie Nagle starting wing back the next day as he has got heaps of chances and is just not up to intercounty standard, even if he did ok when he came on today.

Our half forward line was cleaned out today in the aeriel battle with limerick, especially in the second half. This is something which needs to be worked on with in training over the next few weeks. I wouldn't make any changes in this line however as I feel we have the right players in the right positions here (unless kelly hits a rich vein of form of course). Instead we need to work of the quality of ball played into the forwards and of our puck outs.

Finally, it was great to get three goals today and I think having Shane Walsh in Full Forward (should have been left there for the whole match) and Brian O' Sullivan, who looks like a good goal threat, as well as Mullane in there has added a dimension to our game that we just haven't had in recent years. We could have had 5 goals today and with the right ball into these boys vs Tipp who knows.

Anyway my team for the next day would be:

1. Adrian Power
2. Darragh Fives
3. Brick Walsh
4. Noel Connors
5. Tony Browne
6. Kevin Moran
7. Aidan Kearney
8. Ritchie Foley
9. Stephen Molumphy
10. Maurice Shanahan
11. Shane O' Sullivan
12. Pauric Mahony
13. Brian O' Sullivan
14. Shane Walsh
15. John Mullane

If you were to have Adrian in goal, would you get rid of the short puck outs. Adrian's puck outs are a huge advantage and it could be criminal not to use them.

KevIRL · 12-06-2011 10:30PM

deisedude wrote: »

Were we vastly outnumbered? Where i was sitting I couldnt even see a Limerick fan! There were more Limerick fans on the terrace undoubtedly. Have to remember Limerick fans havent had a team to cheer in over a year as the Limerick people didnt follow Justins junior B team last year so a good turnout with their renewed sense of optimism was surely expected

I did a quick headcount at half time and it was 10,216 Limerick, 5,143 Waterford and 181 nuetral

deisedude · 12-06-2011 10:33PM

KevIRL wrote: »

I did a quick headcount at half time and it was 10,216 Limerick, 5,143 Waterford and 181 nuetral

You must have missed me, I went out to the jacks at half time!:D

flahavaj · 12-06-2011 10:44PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

Cork gave six players their debut against Waterford in 1999. They went on to win the Munster and All-Ireland finals. If you are good enough you will settle in quickly.

Its not as if Waterford aren't still in the runing for both Munster and the All Ireland. I'm sure Cork improved as the Summer went on in 1999 and the six lads bedded in more and more. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Fentdog84 · 12-06-2011 10:45PM

reasons for poor waterford turnout

1/ The weather- there was bad forecast for Sunday all week, and probably another 5-6000 would have turned up today had it not been pissing this morning so they decided **** that, its easier to watch on telly

2/ Ticket prices- we live in recessionary times but the GAA certainly arent. 30 euro for the stand is crazy. It was also pretty cynical leaving the Killnalin end closed thus stopping people going in for cheaper. Plus it made the stadium look even more empty.

3/ lack of hype- waterford were expected to win this game from the outset and little was known about Limerick, they have no real big names in the side. Lets face it they are not Kilkenny, Tipp or Cork. So the interest in the game wasnt going to be as high

flahavaj · 12-06-2011 10:49PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

Again is that a bit of a mit. Have a look at Justin's first championship team in 2002 against Cork I think, and that which he selected against Clare in his last game. There is five players that were involved in the two games from the start.

Team in 2002
S Brenner

J Murray

T Feeney

B Flannery

P Queally

F Hartley

E Murphy

T Browne

D Bennett

E Kelly

A Moloney

P Flynn

J Mullane

S Prendergast

E McGrath

Team in 2008
C Hennessey;

S Kearney

K Moran

D Prendergast;

T Browne,

B Phelan,

J Kennedy;

M Walsh (capt),

D Bennett;

S Prendergast,

D Shanahan,

S Molumphy;

J Mullane,

G Hurney,

15. E McGrath

How many of those changes were forced by retirement? If fit, Kelly, Ken and Murphy from the 2002 would also have started that game in 2008. It seesm to me Justin would pick players he knew well no matter how well or badly they were playing, based on their previous reputation. Davy Fitz does not.

Look at the turnover of players Fitzgerald has had in half the time. You're picking specific line ups to suit your argument, instead of looking at the overall policies of the managers. Say what you like about Davy (and at ths stage your incessant negativity towards him is getting very tedious tbh) but he has given a huge number and variety of player from across the county a chance to stake a claim for this team and has shown he won't pick players based on reputation.

Daysha · 12-06-2011 10:49PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

If its true, does it not say that what was in Damien Tiernan's book was correct despite what some will say. Did i read some place in the past when Clare was it won their all-Ireland's the players gave it up while they were in the championship.

Nobody ever denied that the players went out on a few sessions in the past (not that there's any problems with that). The problem some had with it was how it was portrayed, i.e. that it was one of the contributing factors for not winning an All-Ireland.

And even if that was or wasn't the case, what difference would tonight make to any of that?

KevIRL · 12-06-2011 10:51PM

Fentdog84 wrote: »

reasons for poor waterford turnout

1/ The weather- there was bad forecast for Sunday all week, and probably another 5-6000 would have turned up today had it not been pissing this morning so they decided **** that, its easier to watch on telly

2/ Ticket prices- we live in recessionary times but the GAA certainly arent. 30 euro for the stand is crazy. It was also pretty cynical leaving the Killnalin end closed thus stopping people going in for cheaper. Plus it made the stadium look even more empty.

3/ lack of hype- waterford were expected to win this game from the outset and little was known about Limerick, they have no real big names in the side. Lets face it they are not Kilkenny, Tipp or Cork. So the interest in the game wasnt going to be as high

So in other words

1/ We are a county of fair weather fans
2/ Accept the point about the recession, however the terrace option was still there...The town end was not full. There was also options such as the season ticket for even better value
3/ We used to slag off the likes of Kilkenny fans for only showing up to the big games or finals, while patting ourselves on the back for our great support. Are we now no better than that.

Sure its a lot easier to just watch the game on TV and then slag off the team and manager afterwards isnt it

PTH2009 · 12-06-2011 10:51PM

being a Waterford fan is not good for the heart thats for sure.

Anyway a win a win. Limerick are a better team than everybody expected and will be a handful for any team in the quilfers. I believe Limerick could beat Wexford or Dublin on there day. Waterford have a lot of work to do the next few weeks hopefully wedont get any injurys from Round 3 of the Club championship next weekend. A Munster final is a special day and id say every Waterford supporter is delighted were in one.

The Tall Ships is on 30-3 June/July and then the Football Quilfer on 9th July and then the Munster Hurling Final on the 10th July good times for Waterford.

My understanding the final will be played in Thurles if its Waterford vs Clare and In Cork if its Waterford vs Tipperary.

KevIRL · 12-06-2011 10:53PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

being a Waterford fan is not good for the heart thats for sure.

Anyway a win a win. Limerick are a better team than everybody expected and will be a handful for any team in the quilfers. I believe Limerick could beat Wexford or Dublin on there day. Waterford have a lot of work to do the next few weeks hopefully wedont get any injurys from Round 3 of the Club championship next weekend. A Munster final is a special day and id say every Waterford supporter is delighted were in one.

The Tall Ships is on 30-3 June/July and then the Football Quilfer on 9th July and then the Munster Hurling Final on the 10th July good times for Waterford.

My understanding the final will be played in Thurles if its Waterford vs Clare and In Cork if its Waterford vs Tipperary.

Christ I really hope this isnt the case. Just put it on in Thurles. The Munster hurling final should be held there every season imo.

PTH2009 · 12-06-2011 10:57PM

Daysha wrote: »

Nobody ever denied that the players went out on a few sessions in the past (not that there's any problems with that). The problem some had with it was how it was portrayed, i.e. that it was one of the contributing factors for not winning an All-Ireland.

And even if that was or wasn't the case, what difference would tonight make to any of that?

Sure the Carlow, Donegal and Roscommon teams are probly out on the piss tonight too. Soccer/Rugby players are always heading out after matches so the gaa players deserve a night out too.

Fentdog84 · 12-06-2011 10:57PM

KevIRL wrote: »

Christ I really hope this isnt the case. Just put it on in Thurles. The Munster hurling final should be held there every season imo.

So you would be happy to give Tipp home advantage then?

PTH2009 · 12-06-2011 10:59PM

KevIRL wrote: »

Christ I really hope this isnt the case. Just put it on in Thurles. The Munster hurling final should be held there every season imo.

Waterford would not object to a final in Thurles either would any Waterford supporter. Sure the Dublin Footballers played almost all of there Leinster finals in Croke Park which is in Dublin.

flahavaj · 12-06-2011 10:59PM

Fentdog84 wrote: »

So you would be happy to give Tipp home advantage then?

Thurles is as much a home ground for the Waterford lads at this stage in fairness. They love playing there.

shockframe · 12-06-2011 11:01PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

Again is that a bit of a mit. Have a look at Justin's first championship team in 2002 against Cork I think, and that which he selected against Clare in his last game. There is five players that were involved in the two games from the start.

Team in 2002
S Brenner

J Murray

T Feeney

B Flannery

P Queally

F Hartley

E Murphy

T Browne

D Bennett

E Kelly

A Moloney

P Flynn

J Mullane

S Prendergast

E McGrath

Team in 2008
C Hennessey;

S Kearney

K Moran

D Prendergast;

T Browne,

B Phelan,

J Kennedy;

M Walsh (capt),

D Bennett;

S Prendergast,

D Shanahan,

S Molumphy;

J Mullane,

G Hurney,

15. E McGrath

This is a ridiculous argument your putting forward because of the 2002 side at least 5 of that team would have been more or less retired by the time 2008 came along and around 5 of the 2008 may have been too young to play in 2002.

its also worth pointing out that eoin murphy, ken mcgrath and eoin kelly would have played in both 2002 and 2008 were it not for injuries.

Under Justin Waterford lost 4 semi finals on the trot and under davy they won the first one he was involved in.of course though it was karma they lost the all ireland final according to some cliched-hack in the times in love with Cork and Kerry.

For those quick to knock Davy Fitz he makes some very important decisions at vital times in games.Under Justin Waterford would not have made the comebacks against Galway in 2009, Cork in 2010 and todays win against Limerick.Bringing in Eoin Kelly against a tiring Limerick back line was not a bad move likewise calling on declan prendergast and ken mcgrath for the clare game last year.

hes taken over at a time when some of waterfords most high profile players have started to depart the scene and has bled some players on the fringes of the justin era with younger players something another manager may not have had the guts to do.its not easy being over a county team in transition.Gerard Mccarthy,Eamonn Cregan are examples of this.

Further to add he beat one of the most respected coaches in the game today in Donal O Grady.no mean feat.

Im not saying Davy is a Brian Cody or Mickey Harte level manager but he deserves some credit for keeping waterford from fading away.

For any Waterford posters here ask yourself this.Would a coach from say Ballygunner or Mount Sion achieved what Davy has.

Deise Hurler · 12-06-2011 11:02PM

Deise Tom wrote: »

If you were to have Adrian in goal, would you get rid of the short puck outs. Adrian's puck outs are a huge advantage and it could be criminal not to use them.

Power's puckout's can be an advantage alright. If we could bypass our half forward line with his lenght of puck that would be great as we are struggling to win aeriel ball here. However his shotstopping skills would be the main reason why I think he should start. Power stands big in the goal and is capable of making great saves too. Clinton always dives when forwards are bearing down on him, but its not a dive that makes the goal smaller and rarely results in a save. A goalkeeper should always keep his feet and make himself big in such situations, I feel.

KevIRL · 12-06-2011 11:02PM

Fentdog84 wrote: »

So you would be happy to give Tipp home advantage then?

No problem at all. Thurles is the home of Munster hurling and its essentially a second home for Waterford anyway. We play better there than anywhere else,

Fentdog84 wrote: »

If it is Tipp in the munster final, will probably stay away because we wont have much of a chance against them, based on this showing.

Wont matter to you anyway seeing as you'll most likely turn your back on the team :rolleyes:

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2009-2011

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