Era Based Games ??

Danin · 10-06-2011 3:42pm #1

Have you got loadouts hanging in storage at home that you throw a glance at on the way out on a Saturday morning and say to yourself “ I wish I could get a chance to wear that more often” or do you wish that we had a game once every few months based on WWII or Vietnam so you can dust off some AEGs and Loadouts you don’t get to play with as much as you’d like, or just maybe you'd like to get into putting a collection together but say to yourself "Sure when would I use it" and it stops you from buying...

This may be regurgitating an old thread but hey who isn’t doing it these days LOL, Give us your opinions....

Puding · 10-06-2011 4:59pm

to be brutally honest i do not believe there is enough interest in the republic for quarterly themed games/events, i think you could even have trouble squeezing a yearly game out of them

in the uk i think at last count i had seen, WW2 , Cold war and Vietnam events as the main three with historical themes

i have a complete wardrobe of themed impressions for use in events, i knew full well when i brought them a trip to the uk would also be needed

the development of themed historical events will need a few more years for the community to grow and mature, you get arguments when asking people to invest in midcaps let alone buying a complete historically accurate set of equipment

MonkeyGuy · 10-06-2011 7:42pm

Good man the Danin!

Anyways I suppose Puding is right, 'tis a shame though. Personally, I'm one of the "when would I get to use it" types. Plus I think there's a serious lack of affordable AEGs for historical based loadouts. People are much more likely to spend just over €100 quid on an m4 that they can pick up straight away and shoot, rather than spending lots of money on a gun that'll probably need some work before being skirmishable.

At the end of the day though, it's like almost every other problem with the sport in this country. Only we, the players can do something about it. The more interest there is the more likely sites are to hold events targeted at those eras. Then, interest only grows more.

Now I wan't a Stoner LMG even more.... Thanks...

Inari · 10-06-2011 11:15pm

Loadouts are loadouts. You can wear them anytime. You are only as limited as you make yourself.

In my opinion, this stuff is the pure ethos of become the change you wish to see. Want more people to see Era-themed loadouts as viable? Show them it's viable with your awesome era-themed loadout.

I agree with Puding that an event is not suitable for Ireland...but I don't think that you need an event.

PS: Anyone brave enough to rock a Rambo III loadout?

EDIT: I kind of forgot what thread I was in (Historical Loadouts + this = confused Inari) - as such my reply is a little more loadout based; sincerest apologies

swiftblade · 10-06-2011 11:21pm

TBH i would put together a Era-themed loadut (WWII, Nam, Falklands) in a flash. The only thing holding me back is money, or the lack of it.

I think it's the same for most people.

The_ChiefDUB · 11-06-2011 12:35am

I think the success of the Black Ace Chronicles game in Red Barn a few weeks ago and the enthusiasm shown by those who took part is evidence that there is demand enough for at least a couple of Vietnam themed games a year.

TheDoc · 11-06-2011 9:09pm

Got a vietnam loadout, not games so sold it, and of course two pop up this year haha.

Always wanted a WW2 loadout but again like there really is no point in getting one since there is just no themed games.

While I know there is plenty of guys out there with them, I like to be competitive on the weekend skirmish and oldskool loadouts just really dont let you be that competitive and a big of an empty gun in a skirmish : /

Puding · 11-06-2011 9:14pm

The_ChiefDUB wrote: »

I think the success of the Black Ace Chronicles game in Red Barn a few weeks ago and the enthusiasm shown by those who took part is evidence that there is demand enough for at least a couple of Vietnam themed games a year.

seen the pictures, seems like a good turn out, but i wonder what the response would be if you restricted molle and the replica rifs people could use...

Firekitten · 11-06-2011 9:51pm

Nam and WW2 are big games in the uk, and run fairly often, but as Puding says, its hard to really mobilise that sort of interest within the Irish community... too many just want a sunday skimish.

That however, shouldn't stop you wearing nam kit, or ww2 to the game? why would it ?

I've turned up at random sunday games with the sten and kit, or my nam gear.... just for giggles....

Lemming regularly wears his nam webbing, tiger stripes, and boonie and runs around with his stoner or m60.

If you want to buy a loadout... buy it, don't be afraid of skirmish site fashion.... its for you to play as you wish, not play how you think others wish you to.

MonkeyGuy · 11-06-2011 10:04pm

I think I mentioned this somewhere else... Anyways a guy today with an m16a1, he was wearing 90s? American woodland camo but sticking to cover beside him made it feel like I was in the shi1t :P

I didn't even think twice about what I was wearing or using though...

TheDoc · 12-06-2011 12:08am

Puding wrote: »

seen the pictures, seems like a good turn out, but i wonder what the response would be if you restricted molle and the replica rifs people could use...

woulda been about ten lads probably...

MonkeyGuy · 12-06-2011 12:10am

TheDoc wrote: »

woulda been about ten lads probably...

Wow Doc, your optimism amazes me :rolleyes:

Firekitten · 12-06-2011 2:27am

MonkeyGuy wrote: »

Wow Doc, your optimism amazes me :rolleyes:

He's actually quite right... how many guys at that game had ris on guns or scopes on assault rifles (Restricted at a lot of uk vietnam games) or wearing molle kit? (also not allowed)

They'd have fit if they had to actually invest in nam gear for the game...

Too many airsofters want a quick thrill, pretend to do vietnam, or ww2, without putting any effort in.

I'll tell you from personal experience, being in a vietnam game with everyone in full US kit around you, realistic weapons, defending a firebase from VC in the treeline, in a rainstorm, with whistle blasts and VC shouts going off, smoke drifting accross the clearing.... Its so unbeliveably atmospheric, and saying 'ok this is Da Nang, you lot with red arm bands are vc, you green bands are US.... is never going to cut it. Ever.

Getting people who want that in this small community though? Not enough to make a game. Even a simple restriction of tiger stripe, or od green bdus, and some form of green webbing, or for vc, black bdus, with chicom (€15 for christ sake) people would throw a fit for the sake of it...

Period gear accurately.... expensive.... but period games, authentically.... ?

Unforgetable.

TheDoc · 12-06-2011 11:18am

MonkeyGuy wrote: »

Wow Doc, your optimism amazes me :rolleyes:

Its nothing to do with optimism or pessimistic views, its simple fact.

You could count very easily the guys that were in era gear, and rifles.

There was modern stuff all over the place. I didn't have a problem with it, the game was class and I had a great time, in fairness my rifle and equipment wasnt genuine era stuff, but I made the effort atleast

And thats not having a pop saying people didnt try, I guess I just get the hump where I keep reading " aw but that costs so much money " and all these excuses and tbh, jsut bollox.

If you havnt got equipment era specific, or you havnt got midcaps, why people are getting uppity about not being able to play milsim or being at a disadvantage cause it "costs money"

Just pony talk.

Again I've no problem with people coming to era games with modern ****, yeah it takes a bit away from it but I've no problem. The game was class.

I guess I'm jsut readnia lot lately where someone post about a specific era game or milsim game and people come along

"O thats not fair, midcaps cost money and I dont have money"

Sorry to burst the bubble but if you cant afford midcaps, dont try play milsim games. Its not fair on those that spend the money for realism and immersion that rules and entrance lines get slack to allow anyone in.

And no its not elitism or me being bigheaded, and its not directed at the recent name game, its just obersavtional and very much fact.

And the fact was if the entrance rules to the recent nam game were strict, it would have been about 4-5 marines, NO sog, and maybe 3-4 VC.

Also woulda been a **** game, hence why era games etc, is just not a runner here.

Puding · 12-06-2011 11:26am

people into themed/historical airsoft are a small % of already a small number, the number of airsofters in Ireland is already small so the % into this type of games is just a minority,

it is the elephant in the room that no one wants to mention , i would image for the fear of being called 'ellitest' but when it comes down to it there are high restriction on true themed/historical events

im not nieve i know that my view of airsoft is in the minority, to me it is about the complete package, it is about the accuracy of everything, some people just have no interest in the 'dressing up' but tbh i find this slightly strange in itself because there still interested in accurate replicas , to me this is odd as it is without context, if no interest in accuracy why use accurate replicas might as well using markers for performance over accuracy

Firekitten · 12-06-2011 11:35am

Example; upcoming 'In Country' game at Combat South in the UK...

US forces have to wear Greens, with webbing, atleast.
Vc must wear black with webbing or chest rig.

Weapons: sniper rifles MUST be period, or have wood stocks
us forces... m4s or m16s, no ris, no optics unless period.
m60s , no ris.

vc... wood effect guns... aks, thompsons, ppsh, svd, etc.

They can be strict, because they get the numbers. No Irish site can afford to for the numbers as doc said. sad, but a fact of life at the moment.

Imagine if someone turned up at In Country with an mp5k and claimed its period because of Call of Duty Black Ops, they'd be laughed off the site.

Elitism? Yes, its entirely part of period airsoft. A fact, not opinion, Its why not everyone does it.

TheDoc · 12-06-2011 11:41am

Puding wrote: »

it is the elephant in the room that no one wants to mention , i would image for the fear of being called 'ellitest' but when it comes down to it there are high restriction on true themed/historical events

And there lies the problem really, and the fact that the number of attendees would be low, so yeah of course its ok to loosen restrictions a little. But if your signing up for a milsim game with camo restriction or a themed era game, you can put some effort in, and if you cant afford it, why is that someone elses problem, and why should the rules be bent.

For example the milsim happening in Bulurgan ( or whatever its spelt) is shaping up lovely and looks like its going to be really enjoyable.

I've gone out and bought a PMC loadout for it, and its not cause I'm flush, but cause I know its a milsim specific unit with roleplay and I wnat to look the part.

Yet there is people a week before the event having a tear over having to use midcaps, and because it costs money its penalising players and creating an unfair advantage.

And this is after the guys have outlined that that specific units are milsim driven, and that if you dont meet requirement you can sign up for the other factions, there is still people now in the milsim factions lacking preperation.

You dont walk into milsim overnight. Its preperation, you need to go research and invest in equipment to use.

Just because a game is announced as milsim or era specific, people need to just use their noodle and if they havnt got the equipment, or havnt got the finances, then dont sign up.

Most game organisers are lax enough with barriers to entry to allow more people attend, but players having a whinge or a go at organisers because of their own circumstances is just annoying : /

TheDoc · 12-06-2011 11:45am

Firekitten wrote: »

Elitism? Yes, its entirely part of period airsoft. A fact, not opinion, Its why not everyone does it.

Thats the problem, its not even elitism.

Thats like me walking out to a golf event in tracksuits and using wooden branches, whining at the organisers that its not fair that other players have invested in proper equipment and have played the game before.

Its a different type of airsoft, that I'd encourage everyone to try, but you dont just walk into it. It requires planning and investment.

When I went to PR2 I didnt just stroll into Sennybridge rocking my skirmishing attitude. I researched, talked to people, got advice, and invested in kit.

I just bought midcaps and that was it. I didnt have fancy weather clothing etc, I had a chinese BDU and got lashed out of it and was strung out for the weekend. But I made the effort by having midcaps.

I enjoyed the weekend and then started investing bit by bit into more kit for a milsim setup....

No ones asking you go buy a new laodout for €100's of pounds.

But if your gonig to a milsim in three weeks time, spend the €50 to get 8 midcaps and thats all you need to start off.

But going on about midcaps costs money and its unfair I just cant get my head around it. Its like if I turn up to a Formula 1 race on a trike and whinge about the other drivers having money and that its unfair : /

Puding · 12-06-2011 11:48am

Elitism? Yes, its entirely part of period airsoft. A fact, not opinion, Its why not everyone does it.

tbh i do not see this as elitiest, this is just an area of the hobby,

a friend but this in terms of other sports as an example and it works rather well, i can enjoy the hobby of cycling by going to halfords and picking up a mountain bike, but i would not be able to go to a velodrome and expect to take part, i could not enter a competitive road race and expect to be competitive, technically all the same activity cycling but needs different equipment

edit: dame it, doc beat me to it

MonkeyGuy · 12-06-2011 12:29pm

Sorry it was supposed to be a sarcastic joke...

Anyway I'd tend to agree with what ye're all saying. I don't have any era kit because basically I just bought any sort of camo coloured gear I could find when I started. I just wanted to get out and play but I'd be the first to admit that the Sunday skirmish field is the only place where it belongs. Events like that are started so that people who have a huge interest in that particular era have a chance to have a more realistic game.

If there was an event based around the middle-east at the moment. So say there were Marines and OpFor... Someone who had a Marine Pacific loadout from WW2 wouldn't dream of entering, so why should it be allowed vice versa?

I really want to get involved in events like this, but until I actually have the gear I don't feel like I have the right to enter. Not that I feel excluded or discriminated against, I just don't see why people who have put the money and effort into doing an era kit, should have their experience diluted by different era guns.

Lemming · 12-06-2011 12:34pm

To jump in on something that FK has mentioned above regarding Combat-South's "In Country" series of events, and to add on top of what Doc & Puding have said;

it's all about making an effort. Yes period events are stricter in terms of what they allow but even with the numbers that Combat South knows it will pull in (the events are always full), they do have a view that if players make an effort then it's a positive for the event and other players experiences as a whole.

For example, taken from the rules

Uniform requirements/restrictions for NVA/VC Forces

		Clothing		Footwear		Headwear		Webbing

Ideal		Traditional pyjama	Black pumps or 		Period NVA sun hat or 	Vietnamese/Chinese 
		suit or tan fatigues	sandals			VC low brimmed boonie 	made AK47 or SKS 
								hat			chest rig


Suggested	Plain black no pocket	Plain black boots	Straw Coolie hat or	Soviet plain tan AK
		fatigue trousers,				reproduction boonie 	chest rig
		black kung-fu style				or sun hat
		shirt or baggy green
		or khaki army shirt
		(remove any non-VC/NVA
		badges)
	

Acceptable	Plain black BDU type	Sturdy footwear,  	Modern plain olive 	Plain black, tan or 
		trousers. Black, green	no trainers		bush hat		olive shoulder bags. 
		or khaki shirt. No 							Anything pre-1960's 
		BDU's other than black							should be fine
		BDU trousers. Black
		pyjamas


Unacceptable	Modern camouflage of 	Trainers or trainer 	Baseball caps, woolly 	Modern webbing and 
		any type. Non-military 	types of footwear	hats			holsters. Assault/tactical 
		style clothing								vests

I wont bother with the other tables as I wanted to give a flavour of what is considered 'making an effort'. From the above table alone, I can see some players in Ireland going apocalyptic over the unacceptable list based solely on complaining about mid-caps never mind anything else. Those folks do not want to read the gun restrictions on the above linked page. Really ... they don't ..... seizures and possible death await their eyeballs.

Edit: As for wishing for 'themed' events in their area - to pick up on MonkeyGuy - and I don't mean to seem abusive or condescending here, but boll*cks to that attitude. Everyone wants it in a nice little convenient package suited explicitly for themselves. And whilst yes it's nice to have something dropped in your proverbial lap, the reality of more specialist events (be it themed, historical, and/or milsim in its varying flavours) is that they cater to smaller demographics of players ergo you will most likely need to make the effort to attend such an event.

For example, there are a handful of 'big' nam games in the UK each year. That's across the entirety of the UK and attracting foreign players as well (I know as I've been to a few whilst still living in Ireland). Do the math.

Firekitten · 12-06-2011 1:29pm

Complaining about the midcap issue is a load of hole....

3 hicaps... nearly €60?
8 midcaps... €60...

They carry pretty much the same ammo too in most cases... There is no price whining, they just don't WANT to make the effort to do it.

It's mostly the entitlement attitude prevalent in the community here, that and the fashion aspect. Though I suspect if we wanted to, we could suddenly turn the Irish scene ww2 or nam, with a little fashion manipulation

Puding · 12-06-2011 1:36pm

if you think the nam events are bad take a look the east wind series in the us

http://operationeastwind.com/ 9 day event

Examples

Soviet Reconnaissance Troops

Required Items:

* AK Series Airsoft Weapon (no M series), (recommend at least 2)
* Sealed and rated goggles (mesh ok but must be tighter than 20 mesh), (recommend 2 pairs)
* Greater than 3000 MAH worth of batteries in the form of at least two batteries (I.E. 3X 1100 MAH mini or 2X 3300 MAH large or 6X 600MAH etc
* Low or mid cap mags for weapons (no hi caps)
* Minimum of 2 complete uniforms in designated pattern:
o HEBE
o Afghanka
o VSR
o TTSKO
o KLMK
o KZS
o Acceptable Substitutes are Ukranian TTSKO, VDV Landing Suit, Czech OD BDU's, Berezka, Sumrak
* Minimum of 4 pairs of woolen socks - no cotton socks
* Warm Hat (Ushanka or Watch Cap)
* Long Underwear (brown/black/od)
* Soft cap (Kepi)
* Helmet
* Gloves (fingerless black leather preferred, full finger wool or leather good too)
* Black Leather Boots in appropriate design or acceptable substitute.
* Military sleeping bag
* Military Wool Blanket (Grey/brown/green...no US markings). Recommend 2.
* Veshmeshok (Russian Ruck Sack)
* Load bearing gear (Harness, Lifchika, Grad2)
* Wristwatch
* Saperka (Entrenching tool)
* Knife or Bayonet
* Minimum 2 dead rags
* Capacity to carry at least 2 liters of water into combat
* At least one correct canteen (Flyashka)
* Mess Kit with spoon, small cup, dishrag
* Compass (to be carried at all times on load bearing gear) Soviet wrist compass recommened.
* East Bloc Flashlight or small straight (torch) type light. No "L" US military lights.
* Notepad and a pen/pencil
* Personal first aid kit
* Personal care kit: (Soap, razor, toothbrush/toothpaste, nail clippers, towel etc)
* Equipment care kit: (sewing kit, boot care kit, twine, blue tape, bailing wire) -Both of the following kits to be kept in a non-descript drab case (od/black/brown).
* Light blue or White Undershirt (NO TELNYASHKI)

U.S. Army

Required Items:

* Period correct U.S. issue airsoft weapon system.
* Sealed and rated goggles.
* Low or mid cap mags.
* At least three woodland-pattern BDU uniforms
* At least four pairs of socks.
* Warm hat.
* Warmth layer.
* Long johns or poly pro.
* Patrol cap.
* USGI PASGT helmet.
* USGI PASGT armor vest.
* Gloves.
* Quality full-leather or Gore-Tex boots.
* Military sleeping bag.
* Sleeping pad.
* USGI Gore-Tex jacket in woodland pattern.
* A Medium or Large ALICE rucksack.
* Load bearing gear.
* Wristwatch.
* Shelter half.
* An entrenching tool, a mattock, a machete, or a hatchet.
* A pocket knife.
* At least two dead rags.
* Capacity to carry at least two liters of water on patrol.
* At least one USGI Canteen with the canteen cup.
* Water purification tablets.
* USGI mess kit with silverware.
* USGI compass.
* USGI angle head flashlight with colored lens inserts.
* Pad of paper and a pen or pencil.
* Individual first aid kit.
* Personal care kit.

TheDoc · 12-06-2011 2:04pm

MonkeyGuy wrote: »

Sorry it was supposed to be a sarcastic joke...

A yeah man I know wasnt having a pop, but it was an opportunity to address the inevitable questions that would follow .

Inari · 12-06-2011 2:23pm

I have to say that I agree holistically with Puding. Caring about what guns/devices you use is seen as intrinsic to our hobby, and yet most people tend not to give the same thought to their dress. For me, I have lots of loadouts planned, and awaiting construction/completion (US 'Nam era, Stargate loadout, STARS and some others) - all are specific to things I like, and want to invest time AND money into.

Themed events, in my opinion, should be strict. It is unfortunate that some people who want to play and comply cannot invest in the required items, however if it is to be truly themed, then they are necessary casualties - you need to show that the event is uncompromising. Ireland is indeed too small to cater for themed events...not because of player base, even though it is quite small. No, it is rather because of a lack of will to adhere to the ideals of the themed event. As such compromises are required at every step of the way, which is nowhere near as fun.

Is it elitist? I would agree with Firekitten and say yes. It is. Why? We are, in essence, forbidding people from playing unless that have the proper gear. It is a form of exclusion, which is necessary to creating true atmosphere. As such it is construed as elitism. But who really cares? Either you have the gear/money to buy the gear, and can play in the event, or you don't. In my mind, it really is that simple

MonkeyGuy · 12-06-2011 2:39pm

But say someone used Plain Olive BDUs rather than having the proper Nam GI uniforms. Is that unacceptable?

Firekitten · 12-06-2011 2:44pm

Depends on the event really. For most... its fine, for some, its not...

Same with Golf, Equestrian events, Mountain biking, or football... It varies at different levels.

MonkeyGuy · 12-06-2011 2:53pm

Basically what I'm asking is... If I was doing a Nam loadout, or even WW2 Marines, and I got Olive BDUs because they're much easier and cheaper to get your hands on, would I be considered an era player?

Puding · 12-06-2011 2:58pm

MonkeyGuy wrote: »

But say someone used Plain Olive BDUs rather than having the proper Nam GI uniforms. Is that unacceptable?

tbh it is more to do with the complete package rather than any single item, at any event i've seen a modern plan OD BDU set would be fine but you start trying to where OD in an ACU cut or OD crye precision trousers you would have issues, the cut is far more important the the physical age

there is a misconception that a theme is expensive a basic Vietnam loadout need not break the bank,

OD BDU
Webbing set
RIF

know you can spend 1000+ on the most expensive stuff you can find and shop at places like SOF, but if you smart you could put together the bdus and webbing for 100euros or less with a bit of searching and your looking at maybe 200 - 300 euros for the rif, there is no getting away from it the rif is the expensive bit but you can cheat and pick up a cheap second hand akm or ak47 ( or ak74 and just take off the flash hider and change mags ) and spray some black onto the bdus, and instantly a LRRP stand in

t

MonkeyGuy · 12-06-2011 3:02pm

Ok thanks Puding. What load baring gear did they have in WW" actually? And was it pattern 56 webbing in Nam?

Firekitten · 12-06-2011 5:38pm

Depends on nation...

(Vietnam was m56 btw for us army, marines used slightly different)

UK, used 38 pattern, and later, 44 pattern, as did aussies and commonwealth forces, US, used 1910, 1923, 1928, allsorts of mishmash kit... theres no 'single' us webbing set really... the kit was from all over. Depends on the rifle you use for us forces really... rather than unit or timeframe in ww2.

Era Based Games ??

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