Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The Future of Irish Railfreight

Options
  • 05-06-2011 1:13am
    #1
    J Cheever Loophole
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭


    Hello all. Relatively new to the site and have really been a lurker rather than a poster. I'd describe myself more as a casual train spotter than a serious contributor on the subject, and have fond memories of seeing the mixed freight (or 'goods' as it was when I was a child :o) going to Adelaide, on my daily commute to and from Belfast. Like I'm sure others here feel, it's been terrible to see the railfreight industry nearly wiped out.

    However the remaining freight flows seem to be relatively successful, and I've read a number of stories that hint at brighter times ahead, including the possibility of the reopening of the line to Foynes for a new freight flow, the possibility of Coillte moving timber between Derry and Waterford, and issues around new rail lnes for freight at Cork port (planning turned down) and Dublin port (lines extended).

    I'd be curious to hear other more informed opinions on two questions therefore. Has railfreight passed its nadir, and if yes, what will railfreight be likely to look like in ten years time - products being moved, destinations etc. I realise this is crystal ball gazing, but I'd be curious to hear what people think.

    Finally, apologies if this is something that has been discussed to death here before - happy for the thread to be merged / deleted if appropriate.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I always thought it a bit odd that even as freight on the network was being reduced, IR decided it was worth the effort to introduce an entirely new freight livery for the few locos left on the job. One would have thought such a move would come in conjunction with an expansion of the rail freight division.

    Unless it was a deliberate (desperate?) attempt to increase visibility in the hope of increasing customer base.

    I think the country is just too small for a viable freight system. Especially as the roads have improved dramatically and thus road freight is more efficient than it was. Bulk, non-time sensitive material, fine. But even container freight is pointless. By the time it gets to the Limerick yard and gets transferred to a truck for local delivery, you might as well just truck it from Dublin docks. Especially if traffic levels are such that one haas to wait a while before a viable load.

    Perhaps the Roadrailer system would be one salvation? It obviates the need to use cranes at each end and thus makes point-to-point a bit more feasible. On the other hand, I don't know if they come in 20' versions, or what the weight of the rail gear would do to the legality of the trailer. (I'm thinking here of the 1980s US design with integrated rail wheels, not the current version with bogies left on a siding)

    (Old:
    railmax2.jpg

    New:
    amt_roadrailer_462024.jpg)

    NTM


  • Options
    #3
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    imho the new freight livery was a cheap fix for locos well over due for ppaint

    why would you rail timber to waterford when presumably you could ship it from Derry?

    Railfreight is uncompetive with roads.End of.

    we have no money. therefore forget spending millions rebuilding the line to Foynes and any other project not using the existing infrastructure and spare capacity.


  • Options
    #4
    Drimnagh Road
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭Drimnagh Road


    Somebody said to me in the pub the other night that Stobart offered to rebuilt the line to Foynes for €7 million and could guarantee IE x amount of tonnage, but IE weren't interested.

    Obviously, I can't back up this claim with evidence, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.


  • Options
    #5
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Another aspect of rail freight that is often overlooked by the naysayers is the whole area of private sidings - where a manufacturer/distributor (Irish Sugar/Greencore, Tara Mines, Irish Cement, NET/IFI, Bord na Mona, Fry Cadbury, Shell, Kerry Co-Op at Farranfore, Tegral in Athy etc.etc.) railed out their goods or railed in raw materials thus removing the need for transhipment. CIE/IE have gone out of their way to discourage this type of business and while some of the big names like IFI are now gone the concept is still good - even in a small country. Government laissez faire policy when it comes to implementing EU directives to encourage the transfer of freight from road to rail doesn't help either. Barring the Second Coming nothing is going to change. More closures and the gradual reduction of the railway system to the Dublin/Cork & Dublin/Belfast lines would seem to be the order of the day.


  • Options
    #6
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    JD put this link up recently - although aimed at pleasing the resident enthusiasts, there is a deeper message towards the end of the video. Fifty juggernauts removed from the road for each freight train journey, less emissions and significant fuel savings. :)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13592652


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I suspect that any form of distributed rail freight is unlikely to grow unless the costs of road fuel become so high that business are willing to give up on "just in time" and the flexibility that road freight gives in direct point to point transportation at a time that suits the individual business.

    A bit like giving up the car to get a bus, you lose the freedom to choose your departure & arrival times and the route is determined by others.


  • Options
    #8
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    Drimnagh Road wrote: »
    Somebody said to me in the pub the other night that Stobart offered to rebuilt the line to Foynes for €7 million and could guarantee IE x amount of tonnage, but IE weren't interested.

    Obviously, I can't back up this claim with evidence, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.
    And if this were true, someone in government would want to step from the shadows and smack the corporate knuckles of Irish rail with a rather thick length of timber. Anything that is a source of revenue is a plus and should be grabbed; it should not be down to whether or not it sits comfortably with Irish Rail as to whether something has merit or not. That mentality is why we have very little freight now because the incumbent allowed it to decline.

    Also, Stobarts has a large and growing presence in this country. Tesco's national distribution centre is a few miles from where I live and Stobart's now move all of their goods by road from that centre to their stores nationally.


  • Options
    #9
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    steamengine wrote: »
    JD put this link up recently - although aimed at pleasing the resident enthusiasts, there is a deeper message towards the end of the video. Fifty juggernauts removed from the road for each freight train journey, less emissions and significant fuel savings. :)

    Some railroads figured these both out some time ago and put it into their advertising. From 2008:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeCIruqe0FM


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saqb4MtVm4o


    The second figure is actually better than that. I verified their numbers by looking at the corporation's annual report. It lists the gallons of fuel purchased in the year, and also lists the ton-miles hauled. Divide the one by the other, you get the advertised 423 miles to the gallon. However, that also counts all the ancillary uses of fuel, such as switching, loco relocation, maintenance of way work, and so on. (Of course, a truck does carry more than one ton, but it only starts to catch up when you get to 30 tons or so). It's also to be said that you get more economy of scale on CSX, where the runs are a tad longer than Ireland.

    As long as the runs are as short as they are in Ireland, barring extremely unlikely increases in the price of diesel, the bigger factor is going to be time and convenience. Unless the proportional time penalty involved with intermodal is reduced, and the ability to get from the railhead to the final destination is reasonable, it's not going to be appealing.

    NTM


  • Options
    #10
    J Cheever Loophole
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭J Cheever Loophole


    corktina wrote: »
    why would you rail timber to waterford when presumably you could ship it from Derry?

    Well, at a guess, might it be because the volume of timber coming from the North-west would not be enough to justify a seperate boat / freighter going in and out of the Foyle?
    corktina wrote: »
    Railfreight is uncompetive with roads.End of.

    Does the presence of the DFDS and IWT freight routes show that that is not always the case?
    corktina wrote: »
    we have no money. therefore forget spending millions rebuilding the line to Foynes and any other project not using the existing infrastructure and spare capacity.

    I understand what you're saying, but how does such a statement tie in with An Bord Pleanala's decision to refuse Cork Port planning permission without a rail link? Furthermore, the talk of the link to Foynes - is it not linked to a significant new find of zinc ore deposits - might a €7 million investment be seen as a shrewd move in certain circumstances?

    Like I said at the outset, I'm no expert, and really all I can offer are more questions than answers!


Advertisement