Phoenix Park Etiquette

Rew · 31-05-2011 09:34AM #1

I got beeped twice today for cycling down the main road in the park, I was well in (basically on the yellow line) doing about 40kph. I go though there twice a day and Id normally do the Castleknock half on the road on the way in in the mornings as I find it easier and safer to be on the road for the roundabouts, then on to the cycle path to the zoo and back on to the raod for the last round about and out the main gate. I'm I wrong or am I just meeting drivers who haven't had their morning coffee?

On a brighter note did my found a slightly better route (18.5km) and got door to door faster (43:55) then the bus can get bus stop to bus stop which is a great result, im saving time and money and getting fitter by the day!!

Lumen · 31-05-2011 09:37AM

You are legally entitled to use the road.

QueensGael · 31-05-2011 09:50AM

I've given up using the cycle lanes in the park; they're full of pedestrians, dogs, buggies, joggers - none of whom think they need to get out of my way, even when I used my voice-activated warning system

Much prefer to stay on the road. And as previously stated, you're perfectly entitled to use it.

ThisRegard · 31-05-2011 09:54AM

You've just met a couple of ignorant drivers, I stick to the roads when on a training spin and only got beeped at once by some oul bag, the majority of drivers seem to behave within the confines of the park. I only use the cycle lanes in the mornings when on the way to work, but haven't done that in a long time.

In the evenings the cycle lane is grand as long as you're not looking to do any form of speed, it's more suited to recreational cycling.

Caroline_ie · 31-05-2011 09:58AM

I do see on a regular basis people on their TT bikes on the cycle lanes, in the aero position etc
wtf.

fat bloke · 31-05-2011 10:29AM

You know you're not allowed train in the Phoenix Park now?

mikemac · 31-05-2011 10:34AM

Safer on the road.
I crashed off the bike and need stitches and missed time off work swerving to avoid two power walking on the green cycle lane on the main avenue, these ladies put more energy into swinging their arms then walking.

Yeah, my fault though
I didn't expect them to walk straight out in front of me with their backs to me

They're lucky they didn't get a tyre and a 70kg cyclist into them over 20km/ph :mad:

LCRC_BAX · 31-05-2011 10:35AM

fat bloke wrote: »

You know you're not allowed train in the Phoenix Park now?

Unbelievably this is true - few of our lads got pulled in by park ranger during the snow - they were on xc / mtn bikes on a Sat morning doing a few laps off road - the ranger tried to tell them they were 'training' and this wasn't allowed. But you are allowed to ride your bike..... what's the difference between training & just riding & is the park not for everyone's benefit?

What a load of nonsense.

Lusk Doyle · 31-05-2011 10:38AM

LCRC_BAX wrote: »

Unbelievably this is true - few of our lads got pulled in by park ranger during the snow - they were on xc / mtn bikes on a Sat morning doing a few laps off road - the ranger tried to tell them they were 'training' and this wasn't allowed. But you are allowed to ride your bike..... what's the difference between training & just riding & is the park not for everyone's benefit?

What a load of nonsense.

And the runners / joggers there are doing what...??? Not training surely!!!

fat bloke · 31-05-2011 10:43AM

They're exercising:rolleyes:

muckwarrior · 31-05-2011 10:45AM

LCRC_BAX wrote: »

the ranger tried to tell them they were 'training' and this wasn't allowed.

The ranger would be better off spending his time telling all the ignorant pedestrians to get the hell off the cycle lane.

a148pro · 31-05-2011 10:48AM

I reckon a lot of people don't know they're cycle only lanes. I jogged there for years without copping on. They should put up some proper visible signage explaining its cyclists and cyclists only. Only a matter of time before someone is hurt. ..

Rew · 31-05-2011 10:51AM

Not to mention the salmon riders, I had to push in for 2 riders on road bikes in all the kit cycling side by side in the wrong direction chatting yesterday evening.

The no training in the park is a joke, who in their right mind came up with that? I do my Army fitness tests in the park every year are they going to put a stop to that? 50 soldiers in combat gear doing 10k up the main road, don't think the park rangers would dare!

mikemac · 31-05-2011 10:53AM

a148pro wrote: »

They should put up some proper visible signage explaining its cyclists and cyclists only.

It would make no difference

For example, the cycle lane along Clontarf is well signposted
And the walkers & joggers have two footpaths and the promenade so three options for them.

Doesn't keep some off the cycle lane though.

RTT · 31-05-2011 10:54AM

I prefer to use the cycle lane as until recently the road was in bits with potholes etc.
It is frustrating with joggers and walkers on the green cycle lane when they get in my way, but when I'm in my car, I admit it can be frustrating being stuck behind a cyclist on the road if they're not using the lane.

Lumen · 31-05-2011 10:57AM

a148pro wrote: »

I reckon a lot of people don't know they're cycle only lanes. I jogged there for years without copping on. They should put up some proper visible signage explaining its cyclists and cyclists only. Only a matter of time before someone is hurt. ..

Signage won't make it safer. If you increased the compliance rate from 25% to 99% the cyclists will just go faster and the remaining 1% will get hurt.

It's a shared amenity. Cyclists should go exercise care around pedestrians just like everywhere else.

Related to this, I almost collided with a salmoning cyclist a few weeks ago as I overtook a slower cyclist on my commute. I had checked for peds in the immediate surroundings but wasn't looking for salmon further up the track. I should have been more careful - you just cannot expect people to abide by what seem like obvious rules.

It's safer and more fun to overtake on the grass.

I don't really understand the point of training in the Park anyway. It's just not possible to sustain any sort of speed around cars, peds and leisure cyclists.

Rew · 31-05-2011 10:58AM

RTT wrote: »

I prefer to use the cycle lane as until recently the road was in bits with potholes etc.
It is frustrating with joggers and walkers on the green cycle lane when they get in my way, but when I'm in my car, I admit it can be frustrating being stuck behind a cyclist on the road if they're not using the lane.

I was nearly taken out of it on a cycle lane recently by a fella turning around to talk to someone he tuned onto the path with his arm out.

Was very quiet this morning they weren't stuck behind me at all, in fact they sailed by me no problem.

Oink · 31-05-2011 11:11AM

Rew wrote: »

[...] The no training in the park is a joke, who in their right mind came up with that? [...]

Whoever it is obviously has his own private version of the Phoenix park bye laws, because I can't find it in here:

http://www.phoenixpark.ie/about/phoenixparkbyelaws/

EDIT:

Lumen wrote: »

You are legally entitled to use the road.

OK, but some cycle lanes are compulsory, some are not. It either IS, or ISN'T.
Does anyone know what's the case in Phoenix park?

Lumen wrote: »

It's a shared amenity. Cyclists should go exercise care around pedestrians just like everywhere else.

Is it officially, legally shared? Genuine question, because my understanding is that there is one lane for pedestrians, one for cyclists, and ne'ver the twain shall meet.

And finally, I thought both lanes, on either side of the road, could be used in both directions. Was I right ot wrong? (Thanks.)

mikemac · 31-05-2011 11:25AM

Oink wrote: »

And finally, I thought both lanes, on either side of the road, could be used in both directions. Was I right ot wrong? (Thanks.)

I'm pretty certain the cycle lanes are marked as one way

muckwarrior · 31-05-2011 11:25AM

a148pro wrote: »

I reckon a lot of people don't know they're cycle only lanes. I jogged there for years without copping on. They should put up some proper visible signage explaining its cyclists and cyclists only. Only a matter of time before someone is hurt. ..

The different coloured lane with bicycles painted on it isn't enough of a clue?

Having a designated cycle lane is utterly pointless if it isn't going to be enforced. If rangers chastised people for walking on it instead of bothering cyclists for 'training' then I reckon within a couple of months a large proportion of the offenders would get the message.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for the RSA to add pedestrian/cycle lane etiquette to their awareness ads?

c0rk3r · 31-05-2011 11:31AM

"As much as a like looking at your ass would you mind removing it from the cycle lane. Im gonna be around in another 15minutes, i might see you again"

She will either move off the lane or stay put

"Ah! you again! Im guessing you were waiting for me to come around again. tell you what, Ill take your number and call you later, im abit busy at the moment"

This is how you pick up women in the phoenix park cycle lanes or they move off the lane thinking your a weirdo. Good fun either way

Lumen · 31-05-2011 11:33AM

Oink wrote: »

some cycle lanes are compulsory, some are not. It either IS, or ISN'T. Does anyone know what's the case in Phoenix park?

The national legislation on mandatory cycle lanes is dependent on precise signage, but the Phoenix Park is not governed by the same signage rules as normal public roads as it's owned by the OPW. Therefore, AIUI, legally the cycle tracks in the Park are not mandatory.

Oink wrote: »

Is it officially, legally shared? Genuine question, because my understanding is that there is one lane for pedestrians, one for cyclists, and ne'ver the twain shall meet.

This has been discussed to death before (search).

As I understand it pedestrians are not specifically restricted from the cycle tracks, but it makes little practical difference how the lanes are designated since you have a duty of care to pedestrians even when they're in the wrong place. Analogy: cyclists are not allowed on motorways. If a car driver saw a cyclist on a motorway and did not take reasonable care resulting in an accident they'd be liable to prosecution for dangerous driving. You can't just run into people because they're wrong.

In any case it is not safe for cyclists to be flying down those cycle paths since they are right next to on-road parking, and therefore there will always be used by peds. Access to the non-cycling footpath is blocked by low rails for most of the length of the Park, so people with buggies are forced to use the cycle path or the grass.

Lumen · 31-05-2011 11:41AM

muckwarrior wrote: »

Having a designated cycle lane is utterly pointless if it isn't going to be enforced.

Depends how you interpret the signage. One interpretation is "this path may be used by cyclists". Another is "this path may only be used by cyclists". Another is "only this path may be used by cyclists".

It's a Park, a place of leisure. Deer frolick, children play, rollerbladers and amateur tridorks show off their lack of dignity, MILFs wobble their cellulite. This is not the place for speed.

ThisRegard · 31-05-2011 12:06PM

Lumen wrote: »

I don't really understand the point of training in the Park anyway. It's just not possible to sustain any sort of speed around cars, peds and leisure cyclists.

You're just not doing it right ! It's easy enough if you do a loop on the Military Road side.

fat bloke · 31-05-2011 12:11PM

Lumen wrote: »

. This is not the place for speed.

Well....

time and a place and all that:pac:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdM7KuTxffU

100Suns · 31-05-2011 12:12PM

If you are not allowed to train in the Park (no statutory/bye-law provision cited to date), yet you use your commute to work for training, in the event that you are involved in an accident, will your CI insurance coverage be void? Is there an OPW/CI conspiracy? That's how ludicrous the situation is. How does a ranger distinguish the purpose of a cyclist's trip. Will GPS tracking be mandatory for cyclists in the Park to ascertain their motives? If that's all that that ranger has to do, An Bord Snip Nua should prioritise looking at wastage in the Ranger's service in the OPW.

Lusk Doyle · 31-05-2011 02:15PM

100Suns wrote: »

If you are not allowed to train in the Park (no statutory/bye-law provision cited to date), yet you use your commute to work for training, in the event that you are involved in an accident, will your CI insurance coverage be void? Is there an OPW/CI conspiracy? That's how ludicrous the situation is. How does a ranger distinguish the purpose of a cyclist's trip. Will GPS tracking be mandatory for cyclists in the Park to ascertain their motives? If that's all that that ranger has to do, An Bord Snip Nua should prioritise looking at wastage in the Ranger's service in the OPW.

Average speed cameras at all entrances like they have in the UK of GB & NI. Speed above a certain kph will be understood to be training rather than merely cycling!

Caroline_ie · 31-05-2011 02:24PM

Maybe if you go dressed all Fredish, they won't bother you because surely, you can't be a 'discovery team' rider training.
Maybe the OPW know their freds and are actually really smart.

QueensGael · 31-05-2011 02:27PM

If there's a training ban, then how does one explain the various bootcamp/fitness/yoga outfits that are operating in the park?

$$$

Lusk Doyle · 31-05-2011 02:29PM

QueensGael wrote: »

If there's a training ban, then how does one explain the various bootcamp/fitness/yoga outfits that are operating in the park?

$$$

I would say €€€ but we all know that these aint worth much anymore so $$$ it is!

muckwarrior · 31-05-2011 02:55PM

Lumen wrote: »

In any case it is not safe for cyclists to be flying down those cycle paths since they are right next to on-road parking, and therefore there will always be used by peds.

I agree with you, to an extent at least. Cyclists need to be more careful than usual and expect a certain amount of pedestrians crossing their path. However, they shouldn't be forced to take to the grass every 50 metres to bypass groups of people that couldn't be bothered using the path that runs parallel only a few meters away.

Depends how you interpret the signage. One interpretation is "this path may be used by cyclists". Another is "this path may only be used by cyclists". Another is "only this path may be used by cyclists".

True, but when you have two parallel paths, one with bicycle signage and one without, would you not expect most semi intelligent/considerate people to think "Oh that one must be for cyclists, I'll walk on this one instead."?

Phoenix Park Etiquette

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