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Is David Norris Toast?

24567…70

Comments

  • #32
    skelliser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    reminds me of another presidential campaign concerning a tape!!

    anyone remember those famous words "on mature recollection...."


    This is only going to gain momentum, Norris needs to step up!


  • #33
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    He never actually denied the quotes, he said that they were taken out of context.

    The quotes are accurate.

    I wasn't realy referring to the quotes.
    That's all been discussed before on boards

    Just a journalist going on live radio, referring to a tape but then she isn't sure where it is.
    If she fails to locate it she's going to look bad.
    Strange thing to do realy. :confused:


  • #34
    PatsytheNazi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    What about the following quote which was a line before the sentence you quoted? "“I haven’t the slightest interest in children, or in people who are considerably younger than me. I cannot understand how anybody could find children of either sex in the slightest bit attractive sexually…"

    Whatever about the ancient Greeks, that's a whole different ball game. In reality though back then those things where happening and accepted.
    So we'll vote for him so that when he is talking to Obama or Angela Merkel or over in China or Japan, they can talk about sex and teenage boys and Joyce etc What a great President he'll make :rolleyes:


  • #35
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    "Now again, this is not something that appeals to me, although when I was younger it would most certainly have appealed to me in the sense that I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older, attractive, mature man taking me under his wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities, and treating me with affection and teaching me about life - yes, I think that would be lovely; I would have enjoyed that.".

    'I would have liked an older man'.

    Yep. earth shattering.


  • #36
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    "Now again, this is not something that appeals to me, although when I was younger it would most certainly have appealed to me in the sense that I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older, attractive, mature man taking me under his wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities, and treating me with affection and teaching me about life - yes, I think that would be lovely; I would have enjoyed that.".

    If you changed that to an attractive, older woman, would it be any different? I mean teenagers (I'm 20) are always going on about those "milf's". If you are a gay teenager, what's different about a "dilf" for lack of a better word? Is this not what he's talking about?


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  • #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ah the stone throwing begins.
    I haven't the slightest doubt that this being brought up is mud slinging by those who would rather Sen Norris is not president.
    I heard the liveline thing and read the misrepresentations,yes misrepresentations.

    The gas thing is,the only people who peddle it are opponents of his bid and the only people that will put any credence in it are people who wouldn't have voted for him anyway for well reasons of bigotry mainly.


  • #38
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Nodin wrote: »
    'I would have liked an older man'.

    Yep. earth shattering.
    Its quite clear he is advocating paedophillia. That sounds quite similar to the "classical" form hence it is false to say that it was a strictly academical discussion about the Greeks as he advocates such a practice, saying that he himself would enjoy it.

    While he says "younger" its not clear what exact age he was referring to.


  • #39
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ah the stone throwing begins.
    I haven't the slightest doubt that this being brought up is mud slinging by those who would rather Sen Norris is not president.
    I heard the liveline thing and read the misrepresentations,yes misrepresentations.

    The gas thing is,the only people who peddle it are opponents of his bid and the only people that will put any credence in it are people who wouldn't have voted for him anyway for well reasons of bigotry mainly.
    Nice bit of mudslinging there, anyone who objects to Norris views on pedophilia must be a bigot.


  • #40
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ah the stone throwing begins.
    I haven't the slightest doubt that this being brought up is mud slinging by those who would rather Sen Norris is not president.
    I heard the liveline thing and read the misrepresentations,yes misrepresentations.

    The gas thing is,the only people who peddle it are opponents of his bid and the only people that will put any credence in it are people who wouldn't have voted for him anyway for well reasons of bigotry mainly.


    I want to hear from Senator Norris and there's no point in him hoping that if he keeps his head down it will all go away. I was definitely intending to vote for him.


  • #41
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    PatsytheNazi wrote: »
    So we'll vote for him so that when he is talking to Obama or Angela Merkel or over in China or Japan, they can talk about sex and teenage boys and Joyce etc What a great President he'll make :rolleyes:

    or they can discuss this lovely poem

    LITTLE LAD OF THE TRICKS

    by Padraig Pearse.


    Little lad of the tricks,
    Full well I know
    That you have been in mischief:
    Confess your fault truly.

    I forgive you, child
    Of the soft red mouth:
    I will not condemn anyone
    For a sin not understood.

    Raise your comely head
    Till I kiss your mouth:
    If either of us is the better of that
    I am the better of it.

    There is a fragrance in your kiss
    That I have not found yet
    In the kisses of women
    Or in the honey of their bodies.

    Lad of the grey eyes,
    That flush in thy cheek
    Would be white with dread of me
    Could you read my secrets.

    He who has my secrets
    Is not fit to touch you:
    Is not that a pitiful thing,
    Little lad of the tricks ?


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  • #42
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    PatsytheNazi wrote: »
    So we'll vote for him so that when he is talking to Obama or Angela Merkel or over in China or Japan, they can talk about sex and teenage boys and Joyce etc What a great President he'll make :rolleyes:

    You're being ridiculous now. I mean we've just come from the time period where sex was hushed up, nobody would talk about it and even things like condoms where banned. I thought we had moved on, it looks like some haven't. And what makes you think that any of that would be brought up in official conversation?


  • #43
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    sensibleken - not one of your better posts. :rolleyes:


  • #44
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    I think most of us know Pearce was a blood lusting pervert to be fair.


  • #45
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    According to Lucy Burke there was material that Magill considered too dicey to print and she gave Joe Duffy that info - off air - but it was not broadcast. .

    Thus conveniently allowing her to imply scandal without producing anything legally actionable or verifiable. Great standards by liveline as usual.
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    She has the tape but it is mislaid in her home. I would be fairly confident that it will turn up. .

    "mislaid". It beats 'ascended into heaven', but outside of that.......

    Considering how long its been known he was in the running, do you not think she would have dug it up by now?


  • #46
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭subway


    this has been on the radar for a while now, he seems to be ignoring it.
    he had a chance last week when it started to break.

    his lack of response to date is pathetic. his original comments moreso. if there is something there to defend the indefensible then lets hear it


  • #47
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    sensibleken - not one of your better posts. :rolleyes:

    what i am illustrating is the inherent bias and taking certain quotes selective and out of context.

    That poem has been used as something to unjustly suggest Pearse was a pederast. something someone could easily arrive at on first reading, if you never read of pearses upset over the allegation.

    similarly you could arrive at the conclusion that Norris is a pederast despite the fact that in the same quote he denies it.

    It just depends on which bias you have


  • #48
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    subway wrote: »
    this has been on the radar for a while now, he seems to be ignoring it.
    he had a chance last week when it started to break.

    his lack of response to date is pathetic. his original comments moreso. if there is something there to defend the indefensible then lets hear it

    He defended it 9 years ago.


  • #49
    zuroph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    subway wrote: »
    this has been on the radar for a while now, he seems to be ignoring it.
    he had a chance last week when it started to break.

    his lack of response to date is pathetic. his original comments moreso. if there is something there to defend the indensible then lets hear it

    eh, he responds to it on his website, and also gave a full and frank interview about it a good while back, and also links that article. Or should he respond every single time someone mentions it?

    last week when it started to break? this happened in 2002 and was well published then too.


  • #50
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Its quite clear he is advocating paedophillia. That sounds quite similar to the "classical" form hence it is false to say that it was a strictly academical discussion about the Greeks as he advocates such a practice, saying that he himself would enjoy it.

    While he says "younger" its not clear what exact age he was referring to.

    It's generally taken as referring to post adolsecents, thus its not paedophillia.


  • #51
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 9,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    This "classical Greek paedophilia/pederasty’" was fairly restricted to the Athenian upper class (ignoring the Spartans) from what I recall from my classics courses. Being from the Catholic tradition I'd not initially have looked too favouriable on a David Norris presidential candicacy, however lately he did seem to be proposing some interesting doctrines with respect to closer ties with the UK and above all, he is not beholden to a party. So I hope for him this matter can be resolved.


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  • #52
    sensibleken
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,650 ✭✭✭sensibleken


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    "Now again, this is not something that appeals to me, although when I was younger it would most certainly have appealed to me in the sense that I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older, attractive, mature man taking me under his wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities, and treating me with affection and teaching me about life - yes, I think that would be lovely; I would have enjoyed that.".

    i see nothing wrong in this. any more than a young man having sexual fantasies around a teacher.

    If said adult were to take advantage and Norris was underage then it would be a crime, but nothing is there to suggest that, he says explicitly that the reverse doesnt appeal to him.


  • #53
    zuroph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Its quite clear he is advocating paedophillia. That sounds quite similar to the "classical" form hence it is false to say that it was a strictly academical discussion about the Greeks as he advocates such a practice, saying that he himself would enjoy it.

    While he says "younger" its not clear what exact age he was referring to.

    he clarifies in the response that he was saying that he would have like to have had an older male to guide him when he was a teen/young adult, to deal with his sexuality, in a time when it was very hard to be gay in Ireland. That he was very isolated and the company of someone who had been through similar was something that he would have enjoyed and learned from.


  • #54
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭subway


    first i've heard of it was last week.
    you must be aware that this is getting a lot of media attention right now amid his bid for president?

    surely its something he should comment on publicy, given that his opposition are getting a lot of airtime.

    i'll admit i was not aware of any response on his website. it had not been brought to my attention here and did not come up on a few searches.
    i'll read it now to see what he has to say but i would also suggest that he get on the airwaves and point out that there is nothing on this new tape to shame him and that he has already answered the criticisms on his site.


    ill reserver judgement til ive read the reply, but he (and his supporters) would be doing well to get the article up the google rankings.


  • #55
    kn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,897 ✭✭✭kn


    savvyav wrote: »
    Has anyone got a link to the original article? I can't find it anywhere.
    I think (I hope anyway) Norris was speaking in academic terms- when I did Greek and Roman Civilisation in college we learned about a Greek legend that describes a bull raping a woman and somehow this is seen in academic circles as representing the formation of the EU. Does that mean that the EU condones beastiality? Of course not. It's an academic metaphor!
    As for the younger man being initiated into adult life, I can only imagine that he meant having an older person to guide you through one of the big moments of adult life (be you straight or gay) would be comforting and reassuring.
    The fact she can't find the tape is not proving anything to me. I would love to hear what he said about incest though, just to be clear on it.
    This hasn't put me off voting for him but I wish he'd learn to censor what he says sometimes, just to avoid situations like this- its like the whole commonwealth/ 1916 rebels debacles all over again.

    Btw- did anyone hear HLB's snappy comment "I'm very well-known actually!"
    Emmm....are you?

    Here is a link to the relevant part of the article.

    http://sites.google.com/site/norrisarticle/


  • #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,785 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Nice bit of mudslinging there, anyone who objects to Norris views on pedophilia must be a bigot.
    Eh?
    Nowhere does Norris say he believes in paedophilia.
    Show me where he does.Kindly get your facts straight,pardon the pun.

    There is however a complete attempt by this woman and no doubt with Noris haters in the background to discredit him by spinning an article in frankly a perverse direction.
    I had to laugh when she was saying that 9 yrs ago when she read the article out to him over the phone,he said great well done or words to that effect.
    She didn't give him a written copy of it,I'll bet she deliberately gave him the rushed version over the phone at the time,to cover her arse in printing the article.
    And of course now her norris hating,homophobic beliefs are to the fore again as she digs it up to spread some uber catholic fascist agenda.

    Thats what I think.


  • #57
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Thats a good point, if a priest said any of this there would be uproar and massive widespread condemnation.

    You mean like the uproar about the roman catholic church said some of the children that were abused were complicit and that it has been two years after the Ryan report was published and still not one court case is pending? :rolleyes:


  • #58
    zuroph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    subway wrote: »
    first i've heard of it was last week.
    you must be aware that this is getting a lot of media attention right now amid his bid for president?

    surely its something he should comment on publicy, given that his opposition are getting a lot of airtime.

    i'll admit i was not aware of any response on his website. it had not been brought to my attention here and did not come up on a few searches.
    i'll read it now to see what he has to say but i would also suggest that he get on the airwaves and point out that there is nothing on this new tape to shame him and that he has already answered the criticisms on his site.


    ill reserver judgement til ive read the reply, but he (and his supporters) would be doing well to get the article up the google rankings.

    Its been on boards for months also. He released a statement about same on website, and links to the articel there. He's quite good for repsonding to questions about his opinions, there is a direct method of sending queries on his site. The commonwealth and the 1916 smears have also been discussed at length on boards, and he responded to both on his site also.


  • #59
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,708 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Imagine the scenario of a straight man in his fifties talking about his youth and wondering what it would have been like for him as a 15 year old male and, say, a hot 23 year old female ...

    "When I was younger it would most certainly have appealed to me in the sense that I would have greatly relished the prospect of an older, attractive, mature woman taking me under her wing, lovingly introducing me to sexual realities, and treating me with affection and teaching me about life - yes, I think that would be lovely; I would have enjoyed that."

    Does it still sound so disgusting?

    This scenario was portrayed, for example, in the Van Halen song "Hot for teacher. "

    The other point is, has nobody on here ever said something which could have a different interpretation put on it, even though that was not what they intended?

    David Norris talks a lot. I'm sure, like a lot of us, there are certain things he has said in the past that he wishes he hadn't. I don't for one second believe he was advocating paedophilia in any sense.


  • #60
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Nodin wrote: »
    Thus conveniently allowing her to imply scandal without producing anything legally actionable or verifiable. Great standards by liveline as usual.



    "mislaid". It beats 'ascended into heaven', but outside of that.......

    Considering how long its been known he was in the running, do you not think she would have dug it up by now?

    From what I gather it was the topping of the Liveline poll by Norris a few days ago that goaded her into going public. On Liveline she admitted to supporting his campaign to decriminalize homosexuality (both financially and through working for him) - hardly the actions of somebody with an anti-gay or anti-Norris agenda. As for the missing tape - assuming it doesn't turn up - perhaps Magill still have their original copy of the article as submitted (before they deleted the offending passages)? It was nine years ago and any of us who write and keep tapes/articles etc know just how difficult it can be to put our hand on something when we need it. I have no axe to grind, don't particular warm to HLB but on this occasion feel she has raised important issues.


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  • #61
    zuroph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,102 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    kn wrote: »
    Here is a link to the relevant part of the article.

    http://sites.google.com/site/norrisarticle/
    And here's the response

    http://joejacksonjournalist.com/2010/09/06/david-norris-the-joe-jackson-interview/


This discussion has been closed.
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