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It's official: Gardai are above the law.

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Comments

  • #212
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Is not a case of me not liking AGS, I have an objection to the very cozy relationship between the judiciary and the gardaí.


    And why is that?

    Are they not both arms of the law enforcement Ministry.?


  • #213
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    And why is that?

    Are they not both arms of the law enforcement Ministry.?
    Not when they are battering people into unconsciousness or making up lies in court which are then accepted as gospel by judges. Too much weight is given to the word of a Garda imo, as well as preferential treatment such as that on display here, hence my objection to the "cozy relationship".


  • #214
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Not when they are battering people into unconsciousness or making up lies in court which are then accepted as gospel by judges. Too much weight is given to the word of a Garda imo, as well as preferential treatment such as that on display here, hence my objection to the "cozy relationship".


    'Lies in court' now you will have evidence to back that up I'm sure.

    Terribly sorry you feel the word of a Garda would carry more weight that an ordinary citizen, but hey, I know where you are coming from, and wouldn't give too much weight to your opinions;)


    Good man yourself.:D


  • #215
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    And why is that?

    Are they not both arms of the law enforcement Ministry.?

    Because both have to be independent, impartial, otherwise justice will be compromised and open to abuse. Judges of old believed everything that the Police stated in court, but since discovering that the Police can lie/deceive as much as the next man then even more reason that "cozyness" between the 2 is unacceptable.


  • #216
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Wolfe Tone wrote: »
    Not when they are battering people into unconsciousness or making up lies in court which are then accepted as gospel by judges. Too much weight is given to the word of a Garda imo, as well as preferential treatment such as that on display here, hence my objection to the "cozy relationship".
    Not exactly true that, my 2 brothers in law are prison officers and regularly witness judges tear strips off Garda witnesses.


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  • #217
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Because both have to be independent, impartial otherwise justice will be compromised and open to abuse. Judges of old believed everything Police stated in court, but since discovering that the Police can lie/deceive as much as the next man then even more reason that there is no "cozyness"
    Some Judges still do!


  • #218
    fergpie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭fergpie


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jonsnow
    I don,t think most people on this thread are outraged that dean foley got a suspended sentence(although some obviously are) but are outraged about the LEGALITIES which gained him the suspended sentence ie.that as a garda he would suffer worse in prison than a regular citizen.

    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    And what is wrong with that concept?

    So because someone would recieve a hard time in prison he should get a suspended sentence. peodophiles get a hard time in prison. should we give them suspended sentences?? NO.
    There's no logic to the argument and the mitigating circumstances...


  • #219
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Not exactly true that, my 2 brothers in law are prison officers and regularly witness judges tear strips off Garda witnesses.
    I also have anecdotal evidence to the contrary.


  • #220
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Because both have to be independent, impartial, otherwise justice will be compromised and open to abuse. Judges of old believed everything that the Police stated in court, but since discovering that the Police can lie/deceive as much as the next man then even more reason that "cozyness" between the 2 is unacceptable.

    'Police can lie and deceive as much as the next man'


    Think about that bulldust mate ,and take a lie down.


  • #221
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    fergpie wrote: »
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jonsnow
    I don,t think most people on this thread are outraged that dean foley got a suspended sentence(although some obviously are) but are outraged about the LEGALITIES which gained him the suspended sentence ie.that as a garda he would suffer worse in prison than a regular citizen.




    So because someone would recieve a hard time in prison he should get a suspended sentence. peodophiles get a hard time in prison. should we give them suspended sentences?? NO.
    There's no logic to the argument and the mitigating circumstances...


    There might not be logic pal, but there is a legal recognition.


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  • #222
    Dangerous Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    And what is wrong with that concept?

    A lot - a hell of a lot. We are led to believe that the police in Ireland are supposedly held to higher level of accountability than the general public. When legislation is used to prevent police from being accountable for their actions - something is dreadfully wrong. That any man can walk free from court after admitting to administering such a beating defies belief. That it is a member of our police force, is sickening.

    Also, I know some have mentioned that the victim asked that Dean Foley not serve a prison sentence. I don't believe that his wishes should have had any bearing on the judge's decision. Remember, Dean Foley carried out a sickening, brutal attack with his brother on an inebriated man; it is no stretch to say that he could easily have killed him. The judge has a responsibility to interpret and serve the law but he also has a duty of care to the public. I personally am not happy that a person such as Dean Foley is now at liberty, and could potentially attack someone again. He is a dangerous criminal and should be in prison with his own kind.


  • #223
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    'Police can lie and deceive as much as the next man'


    Think about that bulldust mate ,and take a lie down.

    Fact I am afraid to say. Probably news to you though.


  • #224
    flash1080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭flash1080


    FÚCK THE LAW


  • #225
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Dangerous Man wrote: »
    A lot - a hell of a lot. We are led to believe that the police in Ireland are supposedly held to higher level of accountability than the general public. When legislation is used to prevent police from being accountable for their actions - something is dreadfully wrong. That any man can walk free from court after admitting to administering such a beating defies belief. That it is a member of our police force, is sickening.

    Also, I know some have mentioned that the victim asked that Dean Foley not serve a prison sentence. I don't believe that his wishes should have had any bearing on the judge's decision. Remember, Dean Foley carried out a sickening, brutal attack with his brother on an inebriated man; it is no stretch to say that he could easily have killed him. The judge has a responsibility to interpret and serve the law but he also has a duty of care to the public. I personally am not happy that a person such as Dean Foley is now at liberty, and could potentially attack someone again. He is a dangerous criminal and should be in prison with his own kind.
    Of course it shouldn't matter what the victim says, if he could get people off prison sentences it would encourage intimidation, threats etc.


  • #226
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Why is it every discussion here ends up in "sure continue with your garda(etc) bashing?" I'm not bashing garda, I'm disgusted with a member of AGS getting away with 6 months in prision just because he is a guard. Like someone else pointed out, if it was suspended off the bat I wouldn't care as much As that's the norm for out system :mad: but to get off just because he is AGS is a farce!


  • #227
    Kev_ps3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭Kev_ps3


    cool im going to join the Guards and commit a crime, they wont send me to jail cos they dont do that is this country anymore:rolleyes:


  • #228
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    /steals pic

    http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247743_1588122682903_1830902510_1026877_6637921_n.jpg


  • #229
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    On RTE News: "A jail sentence for a Garda is a particular hardship" :rolleyes: , can I use that excuse if I refuse to pay my TV licence :p

    Must be a great life being a Garda, get way with stuff like this, can borrow over a million for a pub, 400,000 for a house etc... refuse to pay the loans back, claim you cannot survive on a Garda wage... :mad:


  • #230
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    davetherave wrote: »
    Laois woman gets suspended sentence for manslaughter of husband


    Boxer gets suspended sentence for unprovoked assault.


    Man gets suspended sentence for stabbing Polish couple


    Where was the AH outrage bus when these happened?? Or does it only rear it's head when a Garda is involved????
    Dont forget these.


  • #231
    fergpie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭fergpie


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    There might not be logic pal, but there is a legal recognition.

    No one is disputing its legal recognition. People are disputing its LOGIC!


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  • #232
    jonsnow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    So!

    You are tell me I am talking through my arse for explaining the judges decision to you?

    For telling you what is actually the law.:eek:

    The fact that you disagree with it is the all important factor here isn't it?

    I'd shift myself out of this thread before I begin to look foolish, if I were you.


    Nothing personal mind.

    you didn,t explain the judges decision to me .I understand the judges decision as well as anyone on this thread can given the pretty sparse details that have been given on the legal reasoning behind it.You didn,t go into any greater detail than the original rte link which mentioned something vague about mitigating factors.You just put the word legalities in bold and talked condescendingly to another poster.

    It would appear that the judge only gave his judgement verbally.Therefore unless you were physically present during the trial you would have no more idea than me how the judge came to his judgement.What case law and statute he used to decide "what the law is".If you were their please enlighten me.



    Obviously the fact that I disagree with the judges sentencing policy is the reason that I posted here.I don,t think that my opinions on this topic could be construed as foolish tbh.Although of course you are entitled to your own opinion in relation to that matter.


  • #233
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,204 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I am one of those who has expressed my outrage at this special provision before the law for Gardaí - I am not, and have never been, a serial critic of the force - indeed I have on occasion worked at Templemore.
    Indeed, it is because I respect both the Law and the principles upon which the Gardaí were founded (Guardians of the Peace) that I am so outraged that when a member of the force breaks those very laws s/he is sworn to protect that their sentence is reduced due to only the position they hold. A position which grants them powers unavailable to other members of society.
    Yes- Gardaí should be held to a high standard and face the consequences of their actions if they break the law. They literally are charged with policing society to ensure the laws of the land are upheld so the existence of 'mitigating circumstances' which grants them a get-out-of-jail-free card is an insult to justice which undermines the principles the force is based on- policing by the will of the people. If the people do not see that the Gardaí are subject to the exact same laws as the rest of society, that relationship is threatened.


  • #234
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    Dangerous Man wrote: »
    A lot - a hell of a lot. We are led to believe that the police in Ireland are supposedly held to higher level of accountability than the general public. When legislation is used to prevent police from being accountable for their actions - something is dreadfully wrong. That any man can walk free from court after admitting to administering such a beating defies belief. That it is a member of our police force, is sickening.

    Also, I know some have mentioned that the victim asked that Dean Foley not serve a prison sentence. I don't believe that his wishes should have had any bearing on the judge's decision. Remember, Dean Foley carried out a sickening, brutal attack with his brother on an inebriated man; it is no stretch to say that he could easily have killed him. The judge has a responsibility to interpret and serve the law but he also has a duty of care to the public. I personally am not happy that a person such as Dean Foley is now at liberty, and could potentially attack someone again. He is a dangerous criminal and should be in prison with his own kind.

    "He is a dangerous criminal and should be in prison with his own kind"

    What backup have you for making that statement pal.?

    Of course the attack was totally reprehensible, but unfortunately hundreds of such events occur over every week-end in Ireland, in chip shops all over the country.

    How many of these 'dangerous criminals' are sent to prison?

    The law is the law and justice has to be seen to have an equal consequence to wrongdoers.

    So take off your anti Garda glasses pal, and wise up to the fact that the law was enacted in this case, and rightly so.


  • #235
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    The reason I think that people get their knickers in a twist about the Garda is that he is supposed to be a guardian of the Law and not going around assaulting people possibly knowing he will probably get away with it. People expect the Garda to be above that, hence the fuss.


  • #236
    Bosco boy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Bosco boy


    flash1080 wrote: »
    FÚCK THE LAW

    that's Flash1080 folks, aged 5


  • #237
    FlutterinBantam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    jonsnow wrote: »
    you didn,t explain the judges decision to me .I understand the judges decision as well as anyone on this thread can given the pretty sparse details that have been given on the legal reasoning behind it.You didn,t go into any greater detail than the original rte link which mentioned something vague about mitigating factors.You just put the word legalities in bold and talked condescendingly to another poster.

    It would appear that the judge only gave his judgement verbally.Therefore unless you were physically present during the trial you would have no more idea than me how the judge came to his judgement.What case law and statute he used to decide "what the law is".If you were their please enlighten me.



    Obviously the fact that I disagree with the judges sentencing policy is the reason that I posted here.I don,t think that my opinions on this topic could be construed as foolish tbh.Although of course you are entitled to your own opinion in relation to that matter.

    Post 199 mate.


  • #238
    LizT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,089 ✭✭✭✭LizT


    My opinion:
    This is an absolute disgrace. This is not someone forgetting to pay for their tv licence. This garda beat a man to a pulp, he was lucky not to have brain damage!

    The guy had bleeding on the brain, broken bones and broken teeth. This wasn't just one punch thrown in a drunken argument, it is a malicious attack.

    As for the argument that he might receive a tough time in prison - maybe he deserves it! He would be in prison for a serious offence. What is stopping any criminal arguing they will receive a tough time because they are a certain sexuality, a certain colour or a certain religion.

    Having one law for gardai and another for the general population is really unfair.


  • #239
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    hellboy99 wrote: »
    On RTE News: "A jail sentence for a Garda is a particular hardship" :rolleyes: , can I use that excuse if I refuse to pay my TV licence :p

    Cripes it would be a particular hardship for anyone I would imagine.


  • #240
    jonsnow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭jonsnow


    J K wrote: »
    It's more likely the final days were choreographed to give the defendant a well deserved scare. I think he spent a few weeks in jail and then the deliberations on sentence drew out to a few sleepless nights.

    The Judge would have formed a broad view during the case of whether there would be a custodial sentence or jail time.

    .
    I would be 99% sure that that is what happened.But I think it is still a ridiculous
    position to take in relation to the hardship for gardai angle.


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  • #241
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    FlutterinBantam wrote: »
    "He is a dangerous criminal and should be in prison with his own kind"

    What backup have you for making that statement pal.?

    Of course the attack was totally reprehensible, but unfortunately hundreds of such events occur over every week-end in Ireland, in chip shops all over the country.

    How many of these 'dangerous criminals' are sent to prison?

    The law is the law and justice has to be seen to have an equal consequence to wrongdoers.

    So take off your anti Garda glasses pal, and wise up to the fact that the law was enacted in this case, and rightly so.


    How was this equal? He got away with 6 months in prison because he is/was a guard, if this had not come to light he would serve 6 months in prison. Please explain how this is equal?


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