It's official: Gardai are above the law.

hatrickpatrick · 27-05-2011 01:44PM

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

In fairness, he shouldn't be put in with the violent offenders as he'd be killed.

But he should definitely be locked up all the same.

That's what solitary confinement for your own protection is for. Gards aren't the only people who need protection in prison and there are established procedures for providing such.

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Yes we are all equal and unfortunately this is the same sentance that would have been handed down to anyone else in a similar situation.

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/courts/boxers-brutal-attack-in-nightclubs-toilet-2577094.html

The judge in the case specifically stated it was because he was a Gard and they are allowed exceptions.

sbsquarepants · 27-05-2011 01:45PM

prinz wrote: »

Yup, because no non-coppers have ever gotten suspended sentences for that kind of thing.

Civillians have of course gotten suspended sentences for things like this, they deserved to go to jail too.
But what really galls here is the reason why he got it. That is fairly disgusting in all honesty. Surely the fact that he is a cop makes what he done worse. Thereforethe punishment should be more severe, not less?

Bannasidhe · 27-05-2011 01:45PM

So a man who is employed by the State to uphold and enforce the law beats someone until they are unconscious and has the custodial part of his sentence suspended because as it it his job to uphold the law he may suffer serious consequences...perhaps he should have thought of that before beating someone until they were unconscious. Oh, but he isn't going to suffer the full consequences now is he?

Wile E. Coyote · 27-05-2011 01:46PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Link?

I find that hard to believe. Willing to be corrected though!

I find that hard to believe as well. His choosen career shouldn't even come into it as he was off duty.

prinz · 27-05-2011 01:47PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Civillians have of course gotten suspended sentences for things like this, they deserved to go to jail too.
But what really galls here is the reason why he got it. That is fairly disgusting in all honesty. Surely the fact that he is a cop makes what he done worse. Thereforethe punishment should be more severe, not less?

Well like I said they should have a Garda stockade to imprison members given jail time somewhere in the country and he should serve the full sentence IMO.

On the other hand the actual sentence he got is nothing out of the ordinary compared to members of other professions etc.

AudreyHepburn · 27-05-2011 01:48PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Read the one in the OP. He got 12 months suspended and would spend 6 behind bars. The defense forgot to point out that Gardaí and prison officers get extra mitigation so the next day they went back to court and the whole sentence was suspended.

No link me please. As you would expect me to if I were in your shoes.

I don't understand what the above or the crime itself has to do with his career.

He was off duty, it is irrelevant.

Biggins · 27-05-2011 01:49PM

If the Garda was given favouritism, that I do not agree with.
He should be seen equally - but that's an opinion, not a judgement.

AudreyHepburn · 27-05-2011 01:50PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Civillians have of course gotten suspended sentences for things like this, they deserved to go to jail too.
But what really galls here is the reason why he got it. That is fairly disgusting in all honesty. Surely the fact that he is a cop makes what he done worse. Thereforethe punishment should be more severe, not less?

Morally yes of course.

As regards what punishment he gets though, he was off duty so his career should be irrelevant. He did not do what he did in relation to his career.

Bannasidhe · 27-05-2011 01:50PM

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

I find that hard to believe as well. His choosen career shouldn't even come into it as he was off duty.

So his warrant card is void when he is off duty? He was employed to uphold the law!! He chose that profession! He gave an oath...which I am pretty sure does not include the words 'while on duty only'!

Rew · 27-05-2011 01:50PM

Thread should actually be ex-garda but doesn't make as good of a headline.

Wolfe Tone · 27-05-2011 01:51PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No link me please. As you would expect me to if I were in your shoes.

I don't understand what the above or the crime itself has to do with his career.

He was off duty, it is irrelevant.

The link is in the first post...

Just in case anyone forgot what this copper, Dean Foley, did to his victim;

Mr Murphy suffered a broken nose, facial fractures, broken teeth and bleeding to the brain after the assault. The court heard the brain injuries Mr Murphy sustained were such that he has no recollection of the assault which left him lying unconscious on a city pavement

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-guilty-of-street-assault-2644546.html

jme2010 · 27-05-2011 01:51PM

When a copper is finaly convicted, dont they get a stronger sentance because they know the law before they're breaking it?

Wolfe Tone · 27-05-2011 01:52PM

jme2010 wrote: »

When a copper is finaly convicted, dont they get a stronger sentance because they know the law before they're breaking it?

No they get a lesser one because they are Gardaí, that fact is grounds for mitigation.

AudreyHepburn · 27-05-2011 01:52PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So his warrant card is void when he is off duty? He was employed to uphold the law!! He chose that profession! He gave an oath...which I am pretty sure does not include the words 'while on duty only'!

Well obviously we ALL have to uphold the law at all times.

But surely the Gardai are entitled nights of when they are just normal people like the rest of us?

Frank Black · 27-05-2011 01:53PM

jme2010 wrote: »

When a copper is finaly convicted, dont they get a stronger sentance because they know the law before they're breaking it?

Ehhh - obviously not.

Bannasidhe · 27-05-2011 01:54PM

Well, know we know the answer to Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tommyhaas · 27-05-2011 01:55PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

Would you have posted this if he wasn't a copper

Have to say, that's up there with the stupidest comments I've read on here

If he wasn't a Garda, he would be in jail, hence the thread would not have existed in the first place. The whole point of the thread is the mitigation in sentencing a Garda can benefit from

Today, Mr Foley's Defence Counsel Donal O'Sullivan told the court that he had failed to mention yesterday a principal in law which accepted that some mitigation in sentencing is granted to former guards and prison officers because they were likely to suffer more in prison.

I know a lot of people argue that regularly people are found guilty of this sort of thing, and avoid custodial sentences

While agree that there is far too much inconsistency regarding sentencing, the fact is that in this particular case,a custodial sentence was avoided purely on the basis of the lad been a Garda.

Other sentences handed out by other judges can't be compared to this case, due to different circumstances/Judges etc. The fact though that one Judge, in line with the law, has decided that by being a Garda you can get off a 6mth custodial sentence is IMO disgraceful

userod · 27-05-2011 01:55PM

Biggins wrote: »

If the Garda was given favouritism, that I do not agree with.
He should be seen equally - but that's an opinion, not a judgement.

The Gaurd was given favouritism. That was acknowledged in court. While your opinion that he should be seen equally is one I agree with, that is not the case. The law entitles him to extra leniency due to his occupation.

_feedback_ · 27-05-2011 01:56PM

I'm not in any way anti-Gardai. Have a look at previous threads on the subject.

But the idea that they should get lesser sentences because they would suffer more in prison is a load of shít.

He should have thought about what prison would be like before he beat the shít out of someone.

AudreyHepburn · 27-05-2011 01:56PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The link is in the first post...

Just in case anyone forgot what this copper, Dean Foley, did to his victim;

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/garda-guilty-of-street-assault-2644546.html

Just a little advise; You might find it easier to get people to see your point if you were a little more helpful pointing out where it is.

Anyhoo I looked at the link and I still where his career made a difference to sentence except in relation to where he will serve it.

Wile E. Coyote · 27-05-2011 01:57PM

jme2010 wrote: »

When a copper is finaly convicted, dont they get a stronger sentance because they know the law before they're breaking it?

By that train of thought a politician should get the worst possible punishment seeing as they're the one's who write the laws but it doesn't happen like that. Everyone should be treated the same.

Whats needed is more consistency and harsher terms when the courts are dishing out sentances and then we wouldn't have this arguement.

userod · 27-05-2011 01:58PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

The fact though that one Judge, in line with the law, has decided that by being a Garda you can get off a 6mth custodial sentence is IMO disgraceful

Surely though the mitigation shouldn't be that large? Perhaps 6 months down to 4 months or 5 months but to strike out the entire custodial sentence? What if the original sentence had been 3 years with 2 years suspended. Would he have the full 1 year suspended aswell upon mention of the mitigation entitlement?

hatrickpatrick · 27-05-2011 01:58PM

To the people asking for source, did anyone READ the link I posted in my thread starter?!?!?!

Today, Mr Foley's Defence Counsel Donal O'Sullivan told the court that he had failed to mention yesterday a principal in law which accepted that some mitigation in sentencing is granted to former guards and prison officers because they were likely to suffer more in prison.

Judge Ó Donnabháin said that 'we are in a completely different place today to where we were yesterday and if a point had to be made then perhaps it has been made'.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0527/foleyd.html

Show Time · 27-05-2011 01:58PM

Rew wrote: »

Thread should actually be ex-garda but doesn't make as good of a headline.

If nothing else he has lost a cushy job with a nice pay packet and the option of adding a few stone to his weight every year.

Wolfe Tone · 27-05-2011 01:59PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Just a little advise; You might find it easier to get people to see your point if you were a little more helpful pointing out where it is.

Anyhoo I looked at the link and I still where his career made a difference to sentence except in relation to where he will serve it.

Ah now, read the link in the OP. The poster even quoted the most important bit

Today, Mr Foley's Defence Counsel Donal O'Sullivan told the court that he had failed to mention yesterday a principal in law which accepted that some mitigation in sentencing is granted to former guards and prison officers because they were likely to suffer more in prison.

On that basis the sentence was suspended.

Bannasidhe · 27-05-2011 01:59PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Well obviously we ALL have to uphold the law at all times.

But surely the Gardai are entitled nights of when they are just normal people like the rest of us?

We ALL do not get paid to uphold the law. We ALL do not possess Warrant Cards.

The Gardaí should have equal rights - yes.They should NOT have extra rights!

kopfan77 · 27-05-2011 01:59PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Unfortunately I'm not even surprised.

Ordinary joe does it he gets jailed, Garda does it he walks free. Just the way it is.

Untrue...Ive lost count of the number of times Ive read in papers of "Ordinary Joe" being in a similar situation....even "Ordinary Joe" who has previous convictions...and still receiving a suspended sentence

Court system in this country is a joke full stop....not just in this case but in majority of cases

AudreyHepburn · 27-05-2011 01:59PM

tommyhaas wrote: »

Have to say, that's up there with the stupidest comments I've read on here

It's a perfectly valid question actually and I think can all see the answer would be no.

If he wasn't a Garda, he would be in jail, hence the thread would not have existed in the first place. The whole point of the thread is the mitigation in sentencing a Garda can benefit froml

In all likelyhood he would not be in jail, how many times do we hear on the the news 'so-and-so has received a 5 years sentence with the last three suspended' or ' a five year suspended sentence?

Wolfe Tone · 27-05-2011 02:00PM

kopfan77 wrote: »

Untrue...Ive lost count of the number of times Ive read in papers of "Ordinary Joe" being in a similar situation....even "Ordinary Joe" who has previous convictions...and still receiving a suspended sentence

Court system in this country is a joke full stop....not just in this case but in majority of cases

Does ordinary joe get his sentence suspended on the grounds that he is a garda? Didn't think so. Ordinary joe would be doing 6 months.

AudreyHepburn · 27-05-2011 02:00PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We ALL do not get paid to uphold the law. We ALL do not possess Warrant Cards.

The Gardaí should have equal rights - yes.They should NOT have extra rights!

No they shouldn't and they don't.

Again he was off duty so really his status as a Garda is totally irrelevant to the crime and you know that really.

It's official: Gardai are above the law.

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