Do primetime do more investigating than the Gardai?

lightspeed · 26-05-2011 02:03AM #1

Last week there was the prime time show about the taxi industry and the crooked NCT offices and following that the gardai are apparently investingating the claims revealed in the prime time show. This week a prime time investigates uncovered allegations of irish priest accused of rape and child molestation (the usual)when they were over in africa. Of course following such allegations the gardai are now investigating the matter further. So im curious as to how many other serious crimes go unreported until a tv show can uncover them? Im not so sure as to why or how prime time are better are discovering crimes than the gardai?

Einhard · 26-05-2011 02:04AM

The difference is the gardai tend not to make hour long documentaries about their investigations...

Overheal · 26-05-2011 02:04AM

Hi lightspeed, I'm Chris Hansen. Would you care to sit down?

Senna · 26-05-2011 02:06AM

Everything Prime Time investigates has been in paper or reports from years previous. Just cause its TV, people take notice.

Laika1986 · 26-05-2011 02:17AM

Senna wrote: »

Everything Prime Time investigates has been in paper or reports from years previous. Just cause its TV, people take notice.

No, it's cos it's not the Gards, people prefer to just give out about them.

K-9 · 26-05-2011 02:18AM

Errrr, no.

Bad and all as the Guards are they are better than the Daily Mail and have more checks and balances like courts and stuff.

Elisabeth Blanctorche · 26-05-2011 02:46AM

Senna wrote: »

Everything Prime Time investigates has been in paper or reports from years previous. Just cause its TV, people take notice.

Really? I never heard about bribing the NCT staff in any previous newspaper or television report, before prime time last week.

Kojak · 26-05-2011 02:54AM

Einhard wrote: »

The difference is the gardai tend not to make hour long documentaries about their investigations...

Crimecall wouldn't be far off an hour long documentary, but the guards don't make that - the criminals make that show...

General General · 26-05-2011 03:26AM

Let's see Primetime foot some turf in the summer.. or build a wall for you on the cheap... well, not the cheap... but at a reasonable rate... well, not a reasonable rate... but...

Mully_2011 · 26-05-2011 07:46AM

General General wrote: »

Let's see Primetime foot some turf in the summer.. or build a wall for you on the cheap... well, not the cheap... but at a reasonable rate... well, not a reasonable rate... but...

go back to sleep there

Bosco boy · 26-05-2011 08:00AM

I think if you watch the 9pm news any night of the week you will see reports of investigations which have resulted in people recieving long prison sentences which primetime didn't feature. They are also well able to put a spin on things.

tails_naf · 26-05-2011 09:04AM

In fairness though, the Gardai at a local level seem pretty useless.

Friend had a car stolen - was told hard luck. You'd imagine the Gardai if they had any sense would at least try be on the look out to see if it was being lined up to be used in another crime, but no - they didn't care. Turns out it was only joy riders - but no effort was made to recover it for him.

Myself - I bought a car from a dealer - and after a few months suspected it was clocked. Went to the Gardai after a bit of looking into it. Was told 'What were they supposed to do - it was a civil matter'? Last I heard clocking was illegal - therefore a criminal matter - but they couldn't be arsed.

Tax and Insurance, and Drink Driving checks around Christmas are the only things I've seen them do.

Can anyone relate a story where a crime they know of WAS investigated by the Gardai - I don't mean murder or anything that serious - I mean theft, fraud, etc.

CreepingDeath · 26-05-2011 09:22AM

lightspeed wrote: »

Im not so sure as to why or how prime time are better are discovering crimes than the gardai?

"Discovering" crimes is one thing, gathering enough evidence to prove it is another.
It has to go through the local sergeant first, then the DPP to decide whether they have enough to go on.

In America, if the police stung the NCT testers like that, it might be inadmissible due to "entrapment" - inducing someone to commit an offence.

Wibbs · 26-05-2011 09:24AM

I would agree on the crime against property stuff, in my experience, with a few notable exceptions they've been about as much use as tits on a bull. Mostly down to lack of funding and lack of vigour in sentencing by the courts, so I don't blame the guards on that score. Though that said I have met the odd useless monobrowed windowlicker and you wonder how the fcuk did they sign their name on the application form.

Sonnenblumen · 26-05-2011 09:25AM

Overheal wrote: »

Hi lightspeed, I'm Chris Hansen. Would you care to sit down?

Mr Chris Hansen? Please come with us!

LETHAL LADY · 26-05-2011 09:30AM

Elisabeth Blanctorche wrote: »

Really? I never heard about bribing the NCT staff in any previous newspaper or television report, before prime time last week.

To be fair, I know someone who was sacked from an NCT centre for taking backhanders, it was published in the local newspaper so unless you read every newspaper published in the country it is possible you may have missed it.:p

prinz · 26-05-2011 09:31AM

lightspeed wrote: »

So im curious as to how many other serious crimes go unreported until a tv show can uncover them? Im not so sure as to why or how prime time are better are discovering crimes than the gardai?

I think you've answered your own questions there boss. TV Shows have the time, money and luxury to sniff out any sort of a lead on a story. The AGS mostly have to wait until crimes are reported, as well as dealing with all the other crap like facing down a few mongs on Dorset St.

AGS have to deal with the actual crimes as well, as well as trying to chase up possible leads etc. Also the journalists are free to operate in ways which the gardaí often aren't.

As mentioned above, for every Prime Time Investigates, there are hundreds of AGS Investigates, only we never get to see a nicely edited, condensed version from one side on TV. Open any paper any day and you'll see the results of garda investigations that take a lot more time and effort than setting up a camera and doing an interview.

MagicSean · 26-05-2011 09:49AM

tails_naf wrote: »

In fairness though, the Gardai at a local level seem pretty useless.

Friend had a car stolen - was told hard luck. You'd imagine the Gardai if they had any sense would at least try be on the look out to see if it was being lined up to be used in another crime, but no - they didn't care. Turns out it was only joy riders - but no effort was made to recover it for him.

Myself - I bought a car from a dealer - and after a few months suspected it was clocked. Went to the Gardai after a bit of looking into it. Was told 'What were they supposed to do - it was a civil matter'? Last I heard clocking was illegal - therefore a criminal matter - but they couldn't be arsed.

Tax and Insurance, and Drink Driving checks around Christmas are the only things I've seen them do.

Can anyone relate a story where a crime they know of WAS investigated by the Gardai - I don't mean murder or anything that serious - I mean theft, fraud, etc.

Just go to a district court and you'll see all the people charged with these crimes.

hondasam · 26-05-2011 09:59AM

tails_naf wrote: »

In fairness though, the Gardai at a local level seem pretty useless

how many work in your local station?

ilovelamp2000 · 26-05-2011 10:05AM

the guards only give a **** when they're forced to. Primetime forces them to do something.

mecanoman · 26-05-2011 10:07AM

tails_naf wrote: »

In fairness though, the Gardai at a local level seem pretty useless.QUOTE]

From my experience with the Gardai. Car's been robbed, mine and the wifes.

They've been great. I presonally won't want their job.

A lot of people dont have and decent level or manners towards them.

In the US when stopped most people do as there told and reply with "sir".

(great fan of Cops:))

Bit of manners always helps.

JayeL · 26-05-2011 10:16AM

tails_naf wrote: »

Last I heard clocking was illegal - therefore a criminal matter

Actually they're right; the act of clocking a car is not illegal. Obviously should be, but it isn't. As a result, those doing it are only ever done on a minor fraud charge.

YFlyer · 26-05-2011 10:27AM

Where did my post go? :mad:

faceman · 26-05-2011 10:31AM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

In America, if the police stung the NCT testers like that, it might be inadmissible due to "entrapment" - inducing someone to commit an offence.

AFAIK evidence obtained via entrapment is admissible in many cases in the US. Its not admissible in Ireland.

hondasam · 26-05-2011 10:38AM

YFlyer wrote: »

Where did my post go? :mad:

Maybe the postman took it !

prinz · 26-05-2011 10:48AM

YFlyer wrote: »

Where did my post go? :mad:

Maybe it was taken by a joint Prime Time Investigates/Garda team as evidence.

prinz · 26-05-2011 10:52AM

tails_naf wrote: »

Myself - I bought a car from a dealer - and after a few months suspected it was clocked. Went to the Gardai after a bit of looking into it. Was told 'What were they supposed to do - it was a civil matter'? Last I heard clocking was illegal - therefore a criminal matter - but they couldn't be arsed..

Oh deary me...

Unlike in the UK, it is not a criminal offence under Irish law to tamper with a car’s mileage, Faughnan said. “You may not mislead a customer about any aspect of a car, and you cannot sell a car that is unroadworthy, but no law says that you cannot change the odometer dial,” he said. Most cars can be clocked for a fee of between €80 to €100 without even removing the instrument cluster.
The only redress for consumers who have been duped is to contact the National Consumer Agency, which can take legal action against vendors. But the agency has shown a preference for “naming and shaming” Irish car dealers found engaging in car clocking rather than taking them to court.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5161841.ece

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/clocking-scam-hits-fifth-of-cars-from-uk-2237372.html

This highlights the nature of many complaints with regard to AGS I'd say. People who think they know the law better than the people we pay to enforce it. They couldn't be arsed, or they actually know the correct procedure... Hmmmm.

lightspeed · 26-05-2011 12:56PM

im not trying to insult the gaurds but it bothers me that crimes dont get investigated until their is some public pressure that leads to political pressure.i know of a friend of mine that obtained a dodgy nct for giving a back hander and it seems like other people were well aware of such practices going on from NCT ofices so why was it not till prime time began investigating could there not be an investigation. It appears that there is the bigger problem of trust and confidence in the gardai than a minority of garda members that are not concerned with doing their job right. Why was it that in a sexual abuse claim people from home and abroad trusted a tv show from Ireland than the national police force of Ireland? Its not just the gaurds but on the prime time show about the taxi industry roddy molly who i think is the taxi regulator said he mentioned some of the problems to the the head of the RSA and to the minister for transport if i recall and he had not got a response. Prime time recieved no reposponse from the head of the RSA and the next day i hear on the radio that the RSA have said there will be a full investigation. There was no investigation going to happen until or without the prime time show. Is that not concrete proof that prime time can have moe power at enforcing regulation than the actual regulatory bodies themselves?

prinz · 26-05-2011 01:00PM

lightspeed wrote: »

im not trying to insult the gaurds but it bothers me that crimes dont get investigated until their is some public pressure that leads to political pressure.i know of a friend of mine that obtained a dodgy nct for giving a back hander and it seems like other people were well aware of such practices going on from NCT ofices so why was it not till prime time began investigating could there not be an investigation.

Did your friend go to the gardaí, I'm guessing not. Did you go to the gardaí? If everyone says 'ah sure everyone knows x or y, and they'll find out about sometime' then nothing gets done. Get up, go in and report the issue.

tails_naf · 28-05-2011 04:46PM

prinz wrote: »

Oh deary me...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5161841.ece

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/clocking-scam-hits-fifth-of-cars-from-uk-2237372.html

This highlights the nature of many complaints with regard to AGS I'd say. People who think they know the law better than the people we pay to enforce it. They couldn't be arsed, or they actually know the correct procedure... Hmmmm.

Very interesting - I stand corrected on the illegality of clocking.

Would I be right in saying that at one stage it was almost made illegal? Because at the time I bought that car (end of 2005) I remember hearing something about the law changing in regard to clocking and that it hadn't been illegal up till then. I naturally assumed it was made illegal subsequently.

That was actually another thing that actually made me believe the car was clocked - because between making the deal to buy the car (which hat 65k miles on it) and picking the car up - the dealer had since fully replaced the dash (clock was reset to 0 by doing this). He said the rev counter was broken , so he replaced the dash 'for me', and at no extra cost. I later thought this was to cover his clocking tracks - because there was a LOT of talk about making clocking criminal in the media at the time. So was the dealer that sound to spend his own money on a car a deal was done on - or was he sh*t scared he could be done for something?

tails_naf · 28-05-2011 04:55PM

prinz wrote: »

Oh deary me...

Unlike in the UK, it is not a criminal offence under Irish law to tamper with a car’s mileage, Faughnan said. “You may not mislead a customer about any aspect of a car, and you cannot sell a car that is unroadworthy, but no law says that you cannot change the odometer dial,” he said. Most cars can be clocked for a fee of between €80 to €100 without even removing the instrument cluster.
The only redress for consumers who have been duped is to contact the National Consumer Agency, which can take legal action against vendors. But the agency has shown a preference for “naming and shaming” Irish car dealers found engaging in car clocking rather than taking them to court.

Hold on - on closer inspection of that - it seems to say changing the mileage is ok, as long as you make the purchaser aware of it - if you don't tell the purchaser it was changed, then you are misleading them about an aspect of the car. So while the act of changing is legal, selling the car in that state and misleading the customer is illegal.

So in essence clocking - in the sense that the customer is not made aware of the mileage change - is indeed illegal - or can someone explain this differently?

Do primetime do more investigating than the Gardai?

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