Israel murder 12 people throwing stones

Predator_ wrote: »

The Jews terrorism knows no bounds.

Not all Jews are responsible for the actions of Israel. I would use the term Zionist terrorism, which is far more accurate.

Joonaspp wrote: »

I blame the nation when the government is involved.

Well, then you would blame Israeli's then, which I again would disagree as not all Israeli's would agree with there government, but to be fair, those who are Zionists, I would very much consider at fault.

I taught the following article from time gave some interesting insight into this:

Behind the Israel Protest Turmoil: A Middle East Without a Peace Process

I know that it's off topic and just a short part of the story, even from the Israeli point of view, but it's an official part and publicly recognized that I just found and wanted to share:

http://www.whathasisraeleverdoneforpeace.com/

Heh, you caught me, but I still don't want long discussions or sword to sword battles over politics - it's very tiring for me :P. I'm not a politician.

I will comment on your expenses remark -

It's known that holding an army to gaurd the settelments in Gaza is expensive. 30000 soldiers is a very wild exaggerations, and I know more or less how soldiers were stationed there.

Don't forget that right now there are many soldiers stationed by the border so it's not that huge saving.
If you take into account expenses of the Solid Lead operation and the others to follow you will see that Israel doesn't save money on this.
If you take the huge cost of moving and compinsating the settelers for the loss of houses and businesses you will understand that this assumption is groundless.

The real reason was an attempt reduce the friction there, save lifes of both sides and to pave the road for peace at that border, which isn't really proving itself for now, but in the long run it will worth it.

Nodin, can I ask you a personal question: Do you protect the Palestinian side at 95% of the time to make their voice be heard, or you truly believe that they are right 95% of the time?

Nodin wrote: »

As regards the above, it's a case of colonisation of a people being wrong 99.999% of the time. And I leave the .0001% out only in the chance I haven't thought of everything.

I agree that colonisation in general is wrong, but it's important to take into account what circumstances led to that colonisation (same of them are just some aren't), and how to retreat from that colonisation without leading to a worst situation than it was before.

Two are needed for tango, and you aren't equal in your standing in my opinion, because you almost always omit the facts that stand for Israel.

In the matter of the subject of the thread I can understand the Palestinians and slightly support their desire, but rushing through the borders can only deteriorate the situation (agree?) and shouldn't be encouraged by people that care about human lifes.

Marmara 2 event is coming near. I see we will have a lot to discuss. Right now I can say that it will bring no good to neither of the sides.

comeraghs wrote: »

"peace flotilla" ..... deliberate provocation of a sovereign nation ... if they want to help the Palestinian people they would send aid through "legal channels"

Israel blocks all kind of stuff from going in, for example they blocked Pasta at one point. The blockade is incredibly petty on Israel part, and is an illegal act of collective punishment, and as such the people who are breaking it, are very much in the right.

comeraghs wrote: »

& support the removal of the nutjobs in Hamas who are the real perpetrators of crimes against the Palestinian people.

Considering it is Israel, that has put 1.5 million Palestinian under an illegal blockade, I would say there main problem, is the occupation. Also, long before Hamas existed the occupation was still going strong.

comeraghs wrote: »

The option to send supplies to Gaza exists now without causing
risk to life. why not use it?

Hamas & their predecessors of whatever name don´t recognise the right for Isreal to exist.

From my experience of traveling in the middle-east, the vast majority of people, Palestinian & Israeli want to live in peace but unfortunatly the Palestinian "leadership" in Gaza would rather carry on a futile "war" than sit down, negotiate, compromise & build a lasting peace.

The extremist Jewish settlers are no better but afaik they haven´t threatened to wipe out the entire Musilm population.


I struggle to understand the people on here who take this Palestinians are white & Isreal is black viewpoint to a very complex situation. Of course the IDF will defend itself against attack ... who wouldn´t? obviously Palestinians are angry at how they are treated but do the anti-Isreal posters here really believe that Isreal wants to commit genocide against the Palestinians? treat them like sub-humans? SERIOUSLY? if they wanted to take the West Bank & Gaza! they could have & would have! 20% of the population of Isreal itself is Palestinian .. they are represented in the Knesset, in the national football team, Druze musilms serve in the army!

comments like that are fueled by ignorance & racism. the majority on both sides wants peace,

Absolute BS, obviously committing genocide in Palestine would have huge ramifications, so no they couldn't take the west bank & Gaza in an out & out war, the International community wouldn't allow it. So the Israeli's are doing it in a step by step, piece by piece fashion.

Nodin wrote: »

Unfortunately the 'facts that stand for Israel' are always going to be undermined by the fact they're still building civillian colonies outside their own borders - thats not showing any notion of a retreat. It's an aggressive act which shows the intent underneath the rhetoric.

As to Gaza ......
http://www.inss.org.il/upload/(FILE)1289897263.pdf

Obviously its not just me that doesn't think that Ariel "bulldozer" Sharon turned hippy.

Ok, I understand better now what bothers you the most. The building in the territories.
I'll tell you what bothers me the most and most of the Israelis: their security.
We fear that even after giving the territories to the Palestinians there will be no peace as they will demand more. Hamas may demand Israeli withdrawal from cities like Haifa, Jaffa and other mixed cities. Hamas even refuses to recognize the existence of Israel.
We will only give up on territories if all the Palestinians will announce on the end of the conflict and the end of all demands after all the details will be concluded.
There is something you should understand: The Israelis will be willing to go very far to achieve that peace. They will give many territories, including lands which are being build upon right now. If not, the palestinians will be given evenly worth lands.
Why aren't we not doing it right away? There is a big mistrust between us and the Palestinians. When Abas made a statement a few days ago, that Israel stole their land in 48, and ignores the fact that the Arab nations together with the Palestinians inside the current Israel attacked the new born Jewish state wishing to end its existance, how does it influence on our mutual trust?!
We need a partner that wants to end the conflict, not a one that takes the peace process intermediately for achieving further goals in the future.

Building is not the main problem. At least not in my opinion.
If it depended on me, I would stop it, but I'm not the only citizen in the country, and I too think that there are greater obstacles than that because it is reversable, but lost security to the state is much less reversable.

When I'm talking about Hamas I'm talking about Hamas in the West bank that might rise their head, and other terror organizations.

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About the flottila:

If on the ships there will be terrorists armed with knifes, axes, metal poles and pistols or worse, they will not be welcomed.
I really hope that the army will just sabotage the ship's propeller or something and tow it to the Turkish waters and leave it to the Turks to deal with it. If it's possible.

I wonder what aid they will be bringing now. Hope for them that something more than expired medicine and wheelchairs.

comeraghs wrote: »

might be of interest to some!

http://www.anfearrua.com/news.asp?url=http://news.google.com/news/url||sa=t|fd=R|usg=AFQjCNHG-UCqe7leiedq2UFzwtTiOuM4zA|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/19/mahmoud-abbas-palestinian-territories

thanks, I was reffering to that interesting quote (cynically) in my comment above:

""In November 1947, the general assembly made its recommendation and answered in the affirmative. Shortly thereafter, Zionist forces expelled Palestinian Arabs to ensure a decisive Jewish majority in the future state of Israel, and Arab armies intervened. War and further expulsions ensued."

bending of the history at its best.

And immediately afterwords the article continues:

"Cleverly, Abbas has removed Palestinians from the stage of responsible actors. According to him, they played no role whatsoever – they were merely the victims of Israeli actions. Of course, the inconvenient truth is that Israel accepted the partition plan while the Palestinians and Arab states rejected it and, instead, launched a war against the nascent state of Israel. The Palestinian refugee problem – whose fate is central to Abbas's perception of justice – is a direct result of that war. "