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JUstice the American Way

2

Comments

  • #32
    Mawbish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭Mawbish


    He was arrested on board his flight about to depart JFK airport - he left his mobile phone and other belongings behind his rather plush suite in NYC he tried his best to scarper but thankfully the cops and the district attourney got the arrest warrent and hauled him off the plane.
    He went from DNA & full medical exam (to search for scratches or bruising left on him by the victim) straight to bail hearing and was turned down flat.

    We'll have to wait and see how the trial goes (ain't no way he's pleading anything other than NOT GUILTY)

    Another woman has come forward to say he attempted to rape her in 2002 I think it was....she's now pondering if she should press charges....

    This guy was a potential presidential candidate LOL


  • #33
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I've always thought it a disgrace that anyone's identity was made public in relation to any criminal charge up to and until a guilty sentence has been passed and I stand by that.


  • #34
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I've always thought it a disgrace that anyone's identity was made public in relation to any criminal charge up to and until a guilty sentence has been passed and I stand by that.
    What makes it worse some accusers remain unidentified when the other person is found innocent. It is therefore very easy to ruin a persons reputation.

    Coming out to the press 8 years after an alleged assault when you are an adult at the time is a little odd too.

    It doesn't take a complicated conspiracy theory to think that this is a possible stitch up.


  • #35
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I've always thought it a disgrace that anyone's identity was made public in relation to any criminal charge up to and until a guilty sentence has been passed and I stand by that.

    i completely agree with this. as far as i can see this lad's been ruined already only by the fact that he left a mobile phone behind in a hotel room and was taken off his flight home (which afaik he's been sheduled to take anyway).

    so in the context of the poster's original point - ie. fair play to the states for their unflinching pursuit and detention of a possible rapist, whoever he may be - i'm not completely sure i'd want to live in a country where ANYBODY can be remanded to the likes of Rikers Island on the basis of one claim by one person...especially when it's more than obvious there's any amount of people who would like this guy ruined and millions ($$) of different reasons why this woman could try her hand at making a false claim.

    imo, as some pointed out earlier, it would cost less and be a whole lot fairer if this guy's passport was taken from him, an ankle bracelet fitted and he was confined to house arrest until he's convicted or aquitted.


  • #36
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Rawhead wrote: »
    I know the man has a presumption of innocence, but you have to hand it to the Americans the way they have dealt with Dominique Strauss-Kahn.
    -Hauled off first class in JFK
    -Perp walked in front of the worlds media
    -Remanded in custody to Rikers Island (equivellent to the Joy)

    Consider the same situation in this banana republic
    -Plane given priority take off clearance
    -Super injunction placed on victim
    -Gardai sent in 3 months later to get evidence

    I know the Americans get it wrong a lot of the time, but man do they give the public at least a sense that the big guys don't always get away with it i.e. Bernie Madoff

    Why is parading someone in front of the worlds media for an ALLEGED assault a good thing?

    What if he is found innocent?


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  • #37
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    i completely agree with this. as far as i can see this lad's been ruined already only by the fact that he left a mobile phone behind in a hotel room and was taken off his flight home (which afaik he's been sheduled to take anyway).

    so in the context of the poster's original point - ie. fair play to the states for their unflinching pursuit and detention of a possible rapist, whoever he may be - i'm not completely sure i'd want to live in a country where ANYBODY can be remanded to the likes of Rikers Island on the basis of one claim by one person...especially when it's more than obvious there's any amount of people who would like this guy ruined and millions ($$) of different reasons why this woman could try her hand at making a false claim.

    imo, as some pointed out earlier, it would cost less and be a whole lot fairer if this guy's passport was taken from him, an ankle bracelet fitted and he was confined to house arrest until he's convicted or aquitted.


    How do you know that the only evidence is her claim?


  • #38
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Nodin wrote: »
    How do you know that the only evidence is her claim?

    Nobody knows what the evidence is. Thats part of the problem. How can the case be discussed accurately when the evidence (or lack thereof) isn't readily available.


  • #39
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    orourkeda wrote: »
    Nobody knows what the evidence is. Thats part of the problem. How can the case be discussed accurately when the evidence (or lack thereof) isn't readily available.

    Indeed.

    Personally I'd be suprised if they grabbed somebody off a plane, arrested and charged them if all they had was one word vs another...however I have no more clue what they have than the next eejit.


  • #40
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Actually, the case shouldn't be discussed on here at all until it's over, going by recent events.


  • #41
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    You can only imagine the outcome if he was implicated in that manner in Ireland...

    "We need to keep moving forward, we cannot shock the markets or the IMF"...

    "The IMF are delighted at our engagement with their organisation and a decision was made to release the suspect as he enjoys diplomatic immunity anyway so it's only a waste of tax payers money holding a trial"...

    Fair play to the Yanks for holding him to the same standard as everyone else less privileged, without fear or favour, it just shows this sorry backwater kip up for the childish smarmy corrupt sh*thole that it is...


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  • #42
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Actually, the case shouldn't be discussed on here at all until it's over, going by recent events.

    ....different jurisdiction, different laws etc.


  • #43
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    i completely agree with this. as far as i can see this lad's been ruined already only by the fact that he left a mobile phone behind in a hotel room and was taken off his flight home (which afaik he's been sheduled to take anyway).

    so in the context of the poster's original point - ie. fair play to the states for their unflinching pursuit and detention of a possible rapist, whoever he may be - i'm not completely sure i'd want to live in a country where ANYBODY can be remanded to the likes of Rikers Island on the basis of one claim by one person...especially when it's more than obvious there's any amount of people who would like this guy ruined and millions ($$) of different reasons why this woman could try her hand at making a false claim.

    imo, as some pointed out earlier, it would cost less and be a whole lot fairer if this guy's passport was taken from him, an ankle bracelet fitted and he was confined to house arrest until he's convicted or aquitted.

    This guy isn't your ordinary Joe who has to go to an airport with a passport to leave a country, he is connected with some of the wealthiest people on earth, people with private jets, etc. He probably has his 1 Mil bail money hanging off his shoe or else he has it on his credit card. Dead right to remand him.


  • #44
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    You can only imagine the outcome if he was implicated in that manner in Ireland...

    "We need to keep moving forward, we cannot shock the markets or the IMF"...

    "The IMF are delighted at our engagement with their organisation and a decision was made to release the suspect as he enjoys diplomatic immunity anyway so it's only a waste of tax payers money holding a trial"...

    Fair play to the Yanks for holding him to the same standard as everyone else less privileged, without fear or favour, it just shows this sorry backwater kip up for the childish smarmy corrupt sh*thole that it is...

    What does arresting anyone on suspicion of a serious sex crime prove about the criminal justice system of any nation.

    Nobody has been prosecuted and the case has not even got to court yet. If this is true why is the US worthy of praise on the basis of an arrest?


  • #45
    thebigbiffo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭thebigbiffo


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    it just shows this sorry backwater kip up for the childish smarmy corrupt sh*thole that it is...

    hy·po·thet·i·cal (himacr.giflprime.gifpschwa.gif-thebreve.giftprime.gifibreve.gif-kschwa.gifl) also hy·po·thet·ic (-thebreve.giftprime.gifibreve.gifk)
    adj. 1. Of, relating to, or based on a hypothesis: a hypothetical situation. See Synonyms at theoretical.
    2. a. Suppositional; uncertain. See Synonyms at supposed.
    b. Conditional; contingent.


  • #46
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,916 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    This guy isn't your ordinary Joe who has to go to an airport with a passport to leave a country, he is connected with some of the wealthiest people on earth, people with private jets, etc. He probably has his 1 Mil bail money hanging off his shoe or else he has it on his credit card. Dead right to remand him.

    It isn't a matter of right or wrong with a crime of this magnitude. Surely it's a matter of necessity that a crime like this be investigated. For all anyone knows he could be perfectly innocent. Let's just see how the investigations develop first.


  • #47
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,113 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    Fair play to the Yanks for holding him to the same standard as everyone else less privileged, without fear or favour, it just shows this sorry backwater kip up for the childish smarmy corrupt sh*thole that it is...

    Is he being treated the same as everyone else? When wsa the last time you saw images from an American court of someone charged with attempted rape?


  • #48
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    You can only imagine the outcome if he was implicated in that manner in Ireland...

    "We need to keep moving forward, we cannot shock the markets or the IMF"...

    "The IMF are delighted at our engagement with their organisation and a decision was made to release the suspect as he enjoys diplomatic immunity anyway so it's only a waste of tax payers money holding a trial"...

    Fair play to the Yanks for holding him to the same standard as everyone else less privileged, without fear or favour, it just shows this sorry backwater kip up for the childish smarmy corrupt sh*thole that it is...
    HellFireClub wrote: »
    This guy isn't your ordinary Joe who has to go to an airport with a passport to leave a country, he is connected with some of the wealthiest people on earth, people with private jets, etc. He probably has his 1 Mil bail money hanging off his shoe or else he has it on his credit card. Dead right to remand him.

    Can you really not see the blatant contradiction of these two posts?


  • #49
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Can you really not see the blatant contradiction of these two posts?

    No I can't see any contradiction whatsoever. He is clearly a flight risk, he clearly has connections way beyond those that any of the rest of us would have access to, if we wanted to get out of the US in a hurry. There is no extradition agreement between the US and France so if he did manage to get out of the jurisdiction, there would be very little chance of getting him back for a trial and if he is found guilty, he is facing up to 75 years in custody.

    My first post you quoted, I fully stand over, which is that if he was suspected of committing the same set of crimes in this country, I think it is beyond any doubt whatsoever that he would be enjoying foie gras and bordeaux in his country chateau at the moment, because we have one form of treatment that we reserve for the wealthy and the powerful in this country and another form of treatment that we keep for the rest of us, hence why the country is in absolute bits...

    No contradiction there whatsoever that I can see...


  • #50
    up for anything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,791 ✭✭✭up for anything


    thebigbiffo wrote: »
    millions ($$) of different reasons why this woman could try her hand at making a false claim.

    Money talks in more than one way. This could be one of the reasons why women from a certain section of society don't tend to report rape especially when the alleged rapist is from a rich an influential family. It could well be why the woman who says she was raped by him 8 years ago didn't report it at the time.


  • #51
    kraggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    Guill wrote: »
    If he is innocent it is rough treatment, however, it does look like he tried to flee the country once already.

    You see, the press are making out that he tried to flee on that Air France flight.

    But he was due to leave the country that day to fly to Europe for 2 meetings, one of which was with the European Finance Ministers to sort out the bail out crisis.

    I'm not so sure he was on the run.


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  • #52
    Guill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    kraggy wrote: »
    You see, the press are making out that he tried to flee on that Air France flight.

    But he was due to leave the country that day to fly to Europe for 2 meetings, one of which was with the European Finance Ministers to sort out the bail out crisis.

    I'm not so sure he was on the run.


    Hence the words 'look like'.

    LOOKS LIKE the police are erring on the side of caution. Have any of his human right been violated by the authorities in this case?


  • #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,920 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Can someone explain to me what in the heck a superinjunction is?


  • #54
    Guill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Guill


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Can someone explain to me what in the heck a superinjunction is?


    Like an Injunction only better, and from Krypton.


  • #55
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    It seems this guy has a thing for girls in their 30's anyway...

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/politician-was-like-a-chimpanzee-in-heat-says-assaultclaim-writer-2648515.html


  • #56
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,496 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    HellFireClub wrote: »
    No I can't see any contradiction whatsoever. He is clearly a flight risk, he clearly has connections way beyond those that any of the rest of us would have access to, if we wanted to get out of the US in a hurry. There is no extradition agreement between the US and France so if he did manage to get out of the jurisdiction, there would be very little chance of getting him back for a trial and if he is found guilty, he is facing up to 75 years in custody.

    My first post you quoted, I fully stand over, which is that if he was suspected of committing the same set of crimes in this country, I think it is beyond any doubt whatsoever that he would be enjoying foie gras and bordeaux in his country chateau at the moment, because we have one form of treatment that we reserve for the wealthy and the powerful in this country and another form of treatment that we keep for the rest of us, hence why the country is in absolute bits...

    No contradiction there whatsoever that I can see...

    If this person was given the same treatment as the ordinary Joe Soap he wouldn't be all over the media and you wouldn't be talking about him. An ordinary Joe Soap probably wouldn't be refused bail because of his connections (but might be if he couldn't afford it). Bear in mind this is the same justice system that acquits the likes of OJ Simpson.
    HellFireClub wrote: »
    It seems this guy has a thing for girls in their 30's anyway...

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/politician-was-like-a-chimpanzee-in-heat-says-assaultclaim-writer-2648515.html

    According to the article you quoted, she was 22.


  • #57
    HellFireClub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭HellFireClub


    pickarooney wrote: »
    If this person was given the same treatment as the ordinary Joe Soap he wouldn't be all over the media and you wouldn't be talking about him. An ordinary Joe Soap probably wouldn't be refused bail because of his connections (but might be if he couldn't afford it). Bear in mind this is the same justice system that acquits the likes of OJ Simpson.

    Because another Joe soap wouldn't/couldn't be a flight risk by virtue of the absence of the connections that this guy has. Joe Soap would have to present himself at an airport and the process of departure would stop him from leaving.

    This isn't the case when you have the numbers of some of the world's richest bankers and business people in your mobile phone, with private jet's and runways.

    I'm not saying the justice system is without fault, as you suggest with the OJ Simpson aquittal, but at least they have the balls and the self respect for their own citizens to treat the charges that have emerged with the seriousness they deserve, without any deference whatsoever to his rank in society. Something I still argue that we would not have been capable of doing as a state if this guy happened to be staying the night in Farmleigh and the same set of allegations emerged over here...


  • #58
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Guill wrote: »
    Hence the words 'look like'.

    LOOKS LIKE the police are erring on the side of caution. Have any of his human right been violated by the authorities in this case?

    I suspect there is very strong evidence against Strauss-Kahn ie forensics and perhaps body marks etc for them to hold him in custody. If there was little then I think given his status he would be on bail.


  • #59
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,331 ✭✭✭RichieC


    American justice! F*ck yea.. cop shoots young black man, says he mistook his gun(2.44 lb) for a taser(7 oz), walks away.

    lets be like America.


  • #60
    Rawhead
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Rawhead


    RichieC wrote: »
    American justice! F*ck yea.. cop shoots young black man, says he mistook his gun(2.44 lb) for a taser(7 oz), walks away.

    lets be like America.

    Irish justice! **** yea.. banker bankrupts country, says he can't remember access codes and walks away.

    lets be like Ireland.


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  • #61
    Joonaspp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38 ✭Joonaspp


    Americans r so stoopid.


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