Israel murder 12 people throwing stones

shedweller · 16-05-2011 09:40AM

The Israeli wrote: »

ask them nicely to leave?

You mean leave the concentration camp you have created? israel continually defies human rights to those in Gaza and expects everyone else to think it's ok.
israel has Palestinians cooped up in Gaza, denies them medicine etc. and expects them to be ok with that.
And the use of white phosphorous? That just speaks for itself.
Talk all you want about how hard it is to shoot someone in the legs. Pity about you.:rolleyes:

shedweller · 16-05-2011 09:45AM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

What a horrible thread. No wonder this country is fvcked up. Some of you here belong in the zoo, or marching to a drum with your hand in the air. Hope I never have to meet any of you.

Horrible indeed. But if we all stick our heads in the sand then we won't see whats going on in the world. This is but one issue out of many in the world but i fear it will grow into something much bigger in the future.

lastlaugh · 16-05-2011 09:46AM

lastlaugh wrote: »

Can anyone give me proper justification why Israel continues to illegally settle on what is considered occupied territory?

If people are continually being shat on, how can you expect anything other than violence?

I'll put this question out again in the hope someone can give an answer.

lastlaugh · 16-05-2011 09:58AM

Didn't think so.

old_aussie · 16-05-2011 10:03AM

How many times will I have to tell the Palestinians...

Sticks and stones may break my bones,
But names will never hurt me.

It's names, Not Bullets, names,names, names..

thegreengoblin · 16-05-2011 10:07AM

It truly amazes me how so many supposedly educated people can row in so enthusiastically behind a state which is represented by a terrorist organisation which counts the maniacs of Iran as allies and which openly expresses a wish to see its neighbouring 'pigs' wiped off the face of the earth.

Yes, Israel has done plenty of wrong in its past and should never be above international law. But blowing up buses packed with innocent men, women and children is as low as you can get. When the Palestinians get rid of the murdering, fascist thugs in Hamas then there might be a shimmer of hope. That's the real problem.

Dudess · 16-05-2011 10:20AM

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

What a horrible thread. No wonder this country is fvcked up.

It isn't - unless you think it doesn't take much for a country to be fvcked up.

Some of you here belong in the zoo, or marching to a drum with your hand in the air. Hope I never have to meet any of you.

You're not alone in your barging on to this thread to go on about people being horrible on it yet not specifying which people. I take it you mean one particular "side" rather than across the board - and that being the "side" you disagree with?

thegreengoblin wrote: »

It truly amazes me how so many supposedly educated people can row in so enthusiastically behind a state which is represented by a terrorist organisation

Not too far from describing Israel - and those who back it truly amaze me too.

which counts the maniacs of Iran as allies and which openly expresses a wish to see its neighbouring 'pigs' wiped off the face of the earth.

Yes, Israel has done plenty of wrong in its past and should never be above international law. But blowing up buses packed with innocent men, women and children is as low as you can get. When the Palestinians get rid of the murdering, fascist thugs in Hamas then there might be a shimmer of hope. That's the real problem.

Just because people are critical of Israel's bullying doesn't mean they support Hamas. I despise Hamas too - I despise any of those who inflict violence on others. I'm not interested in taking sides, I just condemn those who brutalise. But unfortunately in this debate there are people who cannot function without taking a "side". I don't see critics of Israel backing Hamas though, but I do see Israel "supporters" praising its military. A state uniform doesn't legitimise terrorism however...

wes · 16-05-2011 10:20AM

thegreengoblin wrote: »

But blowing up buses packed with innocent men, women and children is as low as you can get.

So when Israel kills innocent civilians, I take it you don't think its "as low as you can get"? Dropping white phosphorous on civilians not low enough either?

gigino · 16-05-2011 10:23AM

The Israeli wrote: »

Ask yourself:

Around 140 people bridging a barbed wired fence. They call to free Palestine and urge into the nearby village of Megdel Shams. Some of them are armed with stones.
Now it's a matter of time: Behind them there are thousands that want to do the same. Among them there are terror groups that would like to use this opportunity and infiltrate into Israel.
How would you act instead of Israel? Like really.. talk to their hearts? ask them nicely to leave?
Accordingly to Israel by the Israeli fire 2-4 Syrians have been killed and dozens were wounded. The rest, accordingly to Israel were killed and wounded by the Syrians. Now, you may not believe to the Israeli numbers, but would you believe to the Syrian numbers? The same syrians who have killed hundreds of their own and tried to distort the truth about what is happening in their country?
Why did the syrian army didn't stop these demonstrators? What could Israel do otherwise? Israel was prepared for this day, but failed to unticipate the border bridging. A border which is 200 kilometers long.

You all should know that if Israel wouldn't have opened fire (the order was to fire to the legs) and didn't restrain itself (yes, it did) the outcome could be thousands of Syrians in Israel, Syrian terror groups including Hizbalah and Al Qaeda too maybe. Hundreds would have died and a serious shake to the stability in the region.

Before you blame, think.
If you have any military experience you would know that there was no other quick and effective way to stop the deterioration at the border beside opening fire, at that time, with the means that Israel had at that place. Aagain, soldiers were ordered to shoot to the legs, the orders are always to the legs. But soldiers are humans, and they may miss the legs of moving people. You wouldn't be any better at this.
Sounds horrible to some delicate ears, but it's the reality that some of you probably don't know and fail to understand.
You can suggest how to stop a moving inflamed crowd from crossing the border and after crossing how to get it back, and if you were too slow how to deal with the situation, because the infiltrated terrorists inside of Israel could reach a significant number within several hours.

Again, every death of a cevilian is tragedy, but in reallity, they knew the risk, THEY LED TO IT, and their tragic death saved many many deaths of others, Israeli deaths and Syrian deaths.

+1. If a mob of rioters are throwing missiles at security forces, , instead of going home, and there is a history of rioters / terrorists from same demographic group killing Israelis whenever the opportunity presented itself, the rioters should have turned back. 99.9% of the land around them in the middle east is occupied by"friendly" arab countries ; countries which themselves more often than not do not have a great track record of respect for minorities. Saudi Arabia is one of the more pro-western countries there, its maybe a 100 or 200 times bigger than Israel and yet does it even allow Christian churches to be built there - never mind synagouges ?

brimal · 16-05-2011 10:30AM

This thread is full of 'armchair commentators' who love nothing more than to jump on bandwagons. Would be interesting to see how many of them actually visited Israel or their surrounding Arab neighbours.

I was over in Israel this past week and I was there for the first 2 days of trouble. I saw first hand the 'protesters' at work. In Jerusalem, The Old City was awash with Arabs causing nothing but trouble. It didn't look like a 'peaceful protest' to me.

Spitting, screaming, throwing stones at police & IDF. Also intimidating tourists, damaging buildings, etc.

When you see adult protesters handing stones to kids you have to really wonder who's responsible that kids get injured/killed in these situations.

I am not taking sides in the bigger picture. Both Israel and it's neighbours need to do more to work on this. They have both committed serious atrocities. I'm just telling you what I saw, first hand. Instead of most of you relying on media and propaganda to fuel your sometimes warped views.

ISDW · 16-05-2011 10:35AM

I totally support Israel's right to exist, I went and worked on a kibbutz there in the late 80s, had a fantastic time, met lovely people on the kibbutz and while travelling around the country, of all religions.

I do not understand however, how Israel can treat people the same way that the Jewish 'nation' have been treated throughout history. But then, I also don't understand how Irish people can be racist and anti-immigrant given our history. The way that Israel treats the Palestinians is wrong in my opinion, however, they do have a right to protect themselves, which I think is what they did this weekend. Syria has a bit of an agenda at the moment to deflect what is going on, what better way than to make the eyes of the world look at their Jewish neighbours.

The Western world needs to put pressure on Israel to treat the Palestinians with more respect and to allow them to live normal lives. However, the arab countries around Israel also need to do the same. The Palestinians are used as pawns by the whole region, and this is what needs to be changed. Yes Israel is in occupied territories, but most countries in that region are in some way. A lot of the middle eastern countries didn't exist in their present form until the empirical Western countries divided the area up and formed those countries.

I don't know the answer to this, but Israel does have a right to defend itself. Maybe in 20 or 30 years time, if the people of the countries in that region have been successful in their attempts at democracy, things will change and there will be peaceful coexistence.

Predalien · 16-05-2011 10:58AM

thegreengoblin wrote: »

It truly amazes me how so many supposedly educated people can row in so enthusiastically behind a state which is represented by a terrorist organisation which counts the maniacs of Iran as allies and which openly expresses a wish to see its neighbouring 'pigs' wiped off the face of the earth.

Yes, Israel has done plenty of wrong in its past and should never be above international law. But blowing up buses packed with innocent men, women and children is as low as you can get. When the Palestinians get rid of the murdering, fascist thugs in Hamas then there might be a shimmer of hope. That's the real problem.

The actions of Israel have continually led to surges in support for Hamas, when you treat people the way Israel has the Palestinians it's natural for people to resort to the more extremist viewpoint, why did IRA membership surge during internment and after Bloody Sunday?

Israel is probably quite happy Hamas has support amongst Palestinians, it means they can do as they like and treat any resistance to their illegal occupation as terrorism. Israel's greatest fear is a viable Palestinian state, they know that won't happen with Hamas so it suits them just fine that Hamas have some power at the moment.

FlutterinBantam · 16-05-2011 11:04AM

brimal wrote: »

This thread is full of 'armchair commentators' who love nothing more than to jump on bandwagons. Would be interesting to see how many of them actually visited Israel or their surrounding Arab neighbours.

I was over in Israel this past week and I was there for the first 2 days of trouble. I saw first hand the 'protesters' at work. In Jerusalem, The Old City was awash with Arabs causing nothing but trouble. It didn't look like a 'peaceful protest' to me.

Spitting, screaming, throwing stones at police & IDF. Also intimidating tourists, damaging buildings, etc.

When you see adult protesters handing stones to kids you have to really wonder who's responsible that kids get injured/killed in these situations.

I am not taking sides in the bigger picture. Both Israel and it's neighbours need to do more to work on this. They have both committed serious atrocities. I'm just telling you what I saw, first hand. Instead of most of you relying on media and propaganda to fuel your sometimes warped views.

Aaah now, steady up man, that's the truth you are speaking.

Doesn't go down too well in these parts, the lads like to have someone to spill their bile on, so coming up with the truth kinda spoils their party.

Away with you now, and don't be bringing the truth into these threads, that's not why they are started.

Just a vehicle to spew out the long churning sour hatred of anyone or anything who tries to do something positive like defending their citizens.

Hookah · 16-05-2011 11:07AM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Aaah now, steady up man, that's the truth you are speaking.

Doesn't go down too well in these parts, the lads like to have someone to spill their bile on, so coming up with the truth kinda spoils their party.

Away with you now, and don't be bringing the truth into these threads, that's not why they are started.

Just a vehicle to spew out the long churning sour hatred of anyone or anything who tries to do something positive like defending their citizens.

His post kinda correlates with the opening poster's; the protestors had stones.

What am I missing here?

FlutterinBantam · 16-05-2011 11:12AM

Hookah wrote: »

His post kinda correlates with the opening poster's; the protestors had stones.

What am I missing here?

His whole point I would suggest.:rolleyes:

Hookah · 16-05-2011 11:16AM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

His whole point I would suggest.:rolleyes:

The thread is about protestors with stones being killed. The poster above confirms the protestors had stones.

What truth am I missing?

shedweller · 16-05-2011 11:18AM

wes wrote: »

So when Israel kills innocent civilians, I take it you don't think its "as low as you can get"? Dropping white phosphorous on civilians not low enough either?

US supplied white phosphourous i might add.

FlutterinBantam · 16-05-2011 11:25AM

Hookah wrote: »

The thread is about protestors with stones being killed. The poster above confirms the protestors had stones.

What truth am I missing?

He said he saw the first two days!!

I doubt if he saw everything.:rolleyes:

But I'll let him speak for himself, it's only manners.

Hookah · 16-05-2011 11:25AM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

He said he saw the first two days!!

I doubt if he saw everything.:rolleyes:

But I'll let him speak for himself, it's only manners.

Sure.

The Saint · 16-05-2011 11:30AM

I'm sure your two days holidays gave you a superb insight into the security political situation in the city. I suppose you didn't wander outside the Dung gate and stroll down the hill to Silwan while you were taking in the sights? No doubt your two days of sightseeing gave you an indepth insight into the core issues in the city.

brimal wrote: »

This thread is full of 'armchair commentators' who love nothing more than to jump on bandwagons. Would be interesting to see how many of them actually visited Israel or their surrounding Arab neighbours.

I was over in Israel this past week and I was there for the first 2 days of trouble. I saw first hand the 'protesters' at work. In Jerusalem, The Old City was awash with Arabs causing nothing but trouble. It didn't look like a 'peaceful protest' to me.

Spitting, screaming, throwing stones at police & IDF. Also intimidating tourists, damaging buildings, etc.

When you see adult protesters handing stones to kids you have to really wonder who's responsible that kids get injured/killed in these situations.

I am not taking sides in the bigger picture. Both Israel and it's neighbours need to do more to work on this. They have both committed serious atrocities. I'm just telling you what I saw, first hand. Instead of most of you relying on media and propaganda to fuel your sometimes warped views.

thegreengoblin · 16-05-2011 11:33AM

wes wrote: »

So when Israel kills innocent civilians, I take it you don't think its "as low as you can get"? Dropping white phosphorous on civilians not low enough either?

Of course it is. But my point is that until the Palestinians turn away from Hamas they are not going to get anywhere.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 16-05-2011 11:33AM

ISDW wrote: »

I totally support Israel's right to exist, I went and worked on a kibbutz there in the late 80s, had a fantastic time, met lovely people on the kibbutz and while travelling around the country, of all religions.

I do not understand however, how Israel can treat people the same way that the Jewish 'nation' have been treated throughout history. But then, I also don't understand how Irish people can be racist and anti-immigrant given our history. The way that Israel treats the Palestinians is wrong in my opinion, however, they do have a right to protect themselves, which I think is what they did this weekend. Syria has a bit of an agenda at the moment to deflect what is going on, what better way than to make the eyes of the world look at their Jewish neighbours.

The Western world needs to put pressure on Israel to treat the Palestinians with more respect and to allow them to live normal lives. However, the arab countries around Israel also need to do the same. The Palestinians are used as pawns by the whole region, and this is what needs to be changed. Yes Israel is in occupied territories, but most countries in that region are in some way. A lot of the middle eastern countries didn't exist in their present form until the empirical Western countries divided the area up and formed those countries.

I don't know the answer to this, but Israel does have a right to defend itself. Maybe in 20 or 30 years time, if the people of the countries in that region have been successful in their attempts at democracy, things will change and there will be peaceful coexistence.

This IMO hits the nail on the head.

Israel had a right to defend its borders this week, and done so.

When an Israeli soldier was shot dead pruning a tree over the Israeli/Labanese border people here rejoiced.

Recently in another discussion people rejoiced at the slaughter of a family of Jewish settlers at the hands of two teenage Palestinian murderers and justified the murder's on the grounds that the children parents were ultimately responsible for their deaths as they decided to live on settled lands.

Indeed when this thread was posted within minutes, too fast to have read the link people started to react and started hysterically firing from the hip.

So far I think I've counted about three people who can speak with any sort of first hand experience in the region, and who can relate to what happens on the ground over there.

Hopefully, please God I'll be back in the new year.. We're returning to Lebanon with the 104th battalion, I missed out because the lead brigade is from the west of Ireland & I'm in Dublin

Regardless of all that - attacking any countries borders and threatening an invasion will always land you in a heap loud of trouble.

When the attackers are chanting that they'll die and sacrifice themselves for their cause, and they do just that - well don't come whinging and crying to me about it.

**Ah edit, I see there's a forth now!.

thegreengoblin · 16-05-2011 11:35AM

Dudess wrote: »

Just because people are critical of Israel's bullying doesn't mean they support Hamas. I despise Hamas too - I despise any of those who inflict violence on others. I'm not interested in taking sides, I just condemn those who brutalise. But unfortunately in this debate there are people who cannot function without taking a "side". I don't see critics of Israel backing Hamas though, but I do see Israel "supporters" praising its military. A state uniform doesn't legitimise terrorism however...

But like it or not, the Palestinians are being represented by a terrorist organisation, which is utterly and totally anti-democracy.

--Kaiser-- · 16-05-2011 11:36AM

Cassidy Obnoxious Tonsillitis wrote: »

who the hell but a Palestinian would bring a child to a border incursion.

QFT

Pauleta · 16-05-2011 11:39AM

I think the tactic of the stonethrowers was to lure the Iraelis closer how one they could attack them with proper weapons. I fully agree with tactics of the Israeli's.

Hookah · 16-05-2011 11:41AM

Pauleta wrote: »

I think the tactic of the stonethrowers was to lure the Iraelis closer how one they could attack them with proper weapons. I fully agree with tactics of the Israeli's.

Shoot them dead because they might have attacked with other weapons?

thegreengoblin · 16-05-2011 11:50AM

Predalien wrote: »

The actions of Israel have continually led to surges in support for Hamas, when you treat people the way Israel has the Palestinians it's natural for people to resort to the more extremist viewpoint, why did IRA membership surge during internment and after Bloody Sunday?

QUOTE]

And look what supporting the IRA did for Nationalists in Northern Ireland. There's a lesson there for the Palestinians to heed but I somehow I don't think they'll pay any attention.

Pauleta · 16-05-2011 11:59AM

Hookah wrote: »

Shoot them dead because they might have attacked with other weapons?

A pre-empted strike.

RayM · 16-05-2011 12:02PM

Pauleta wrote: »

I think the tactic of the stonethrowers was to lure the Iraelis closer how one they could attack them with proper weapons. I fully agree with tactics of the Israeli's.

It's funny how a vague assumption can lead to such a definite conclusion. I think, therefore I am... completely certain. Profound(ly stupid) stuff.

Nodin · 16-05-2011 12:15PM

Freddie59 wrote: »

"Civilians". Yeah. With the terrorists in the queue behind them - putting the kids out front as usual. No surprises there then.

You've evidence of this?

Flutterinbantam wrote:

"
Politics forum for these threads surely? .

O Ideally yes. Keeps the wrong element at bay, I find.

thegreengoblin wrote:

"
When the Palestinians get rid of the murdering, fascist thugs in Hamas then there might be a shimmer of hope. That's the real problem. .

It was like this long before Hamas was created, let alone elected.

brimal wrote:

"
I was over in Israel this past week and I was there for the first 2 days of trouble. I saw first hand the 'protesters' at work. In Jerusalem, The Old City was awash with Arabs causing nothing but trouble. It didn't look like a 'peaceful protest' to me..Spitting, screaming, throwing stones at police & IDF. Also intimidating tourists, damaging buildings, etc.

Occupied Arab East Jerusalem awash with 'Arabs', angry at being occupied. Theres a shock.

Pauleta wrote:

"
think the tactic of the stonethrowers was to lure the Iraelis closer how one they could attack them with proper weapons

...what...like sticks?

Whats this based on? Your usual instinctive analytical skills?

thegreengoblin wrote:

"
And look what supporting the IRA did for Nationalists in Northern Ireland. There's a lesson there for the Palestinians to heed but I somehow I don't think they'll pay any attention.

Powersharing, civil rights legislation.....hmmmmm.

I think the treatment of the West Bank and Abbas will the be lesson they learn from.

Israel murder 12 people throwing stones

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